Active HOFers?

[PackJason.]

Nah, just looks like lazy award voting. Palmeiro won Gold Gloves in '97 and '98 while playing 1st base the entire seasons. It's almost like it's an award based on reputation...

Oh, GGs don't matter anymore. Thanks for letting me know.

lol

 

[calsnowskier]

Only one GG.

How many times has Molina been declared the official MLB defensive catcher of the year (a combined award for both leagues)?

Spoiler, Posey has won the award twice. No other catcher has ever been a repeat winner.

 

[PackJason.]

How many times has Molina been declared the official MLB defensive catcher of the year (a combined award for both leagues)?

Spoiler, Posey has won the award twice. No other catcher has ever been a repeat winner.

GGs:

Molina - 9

Posey - 1

 

[navamind]

How many times has Molina been declared the official MLB defensive catcher of the year (a combined award for both leagues)?

Spoiler, Posey has won the award twice. No other catcher has ever been a repeat winner.

Carlos Ruiz and Russell Martin also have as many as Yadi.

 

[calsnowskier]

getting out of this asinine rabbit hole…

I am not arguing that Molina is not an elite defensive catcher. I am far from convinced he is the greatest defensive catcher of all time, however (imho, Pudge was better, for one).

I am also not arguing that Posey is/was a BETTER defensive catcher that Molina. I AM arguing that he is AT LEAST comparable to Molina, defensively.

Other factors that are taken into account for HOF voting are longevity and offense. Longevity goes to Molina. And that isn’t much of a debate right now. But offense goes to Posey, and by a SIGNIFICANT margin.

If Molina is considered a lock for the Hall right now (something I am not willing to cede, but I will for arguments sake), than Posey should be a lock as well. They are full contemporaries and the two have been considered the class of the position for the last 10+ years.

 

[calsnowskier]

GGs:

Molina - 9

Posey - 1

So your ENTIRE argument is based on GGs won?

 

[calsnowskier]

Carlos Ruiz and Russell Martin also have as many as Yadi.

Nope.

Martin actually won it in 2014.

But Macky Sasser (who couldn’t make the throw from the plate to the rubber) has won it as many times as Molina.

 

[PackJason.]

getting out of this asinine rabbit hole…

Kewl

I am not arguing that Molina is not an elite defensive catcher. I am far from convinced he is the greatest defensive catcher of all time, however (imho, Pudge was better, for one).

He isn't the greatest, Pudge was better. But Molina is a better hitter. Balance.

I am also not arguing that Posey is/was a BETTER defensive catcher that Molina. I AM arguing that he is AT LEAST comparable to Molina, defensively.

No, Molina is much better than Posey behind the plate.

Other factors that are taken into account for HOF voting are longevity and offense. Longevity goes to Molina. And that isn’t much of a debate right now. But offense goes to Posey, and by a SIGNIFICANT margin.

I can't argue this point. Solid.

If Molina is considered a lock for the Hall right now (something I am not willing to cede, but I will for arguments sake), than Posey should be a lock as well. They are full contemporaries and the two have been considered the class of the position for the last 10+ years.

Molina is a first ballot. Posey is a 3rd or 4 ballot.

 

[navamind]

Pudge has more Gold Gloves...

 

[PackJason.]

Pudge has more Gold Gloves...

Yep. Best defensive catcher I've ever seen.

 

[calsnowskier]

Kewl

He isn't the greatest, Pudge was better. But Molina is a better hitter. Balance.

No, Molina is much better than Posey behind the plate.

I can't argue this point. Solid.

Molina is a first ballot. Posey is a 3rd or 4 ballot.

Because…

Gold Gloves?

 

[PackJason.]

Because…

Gold Gloves?

I have eyes.

 

[calsnowskier]

I have eyes.

And have never watched Posey, obviously.

 

[PackJason.]

And have never watched Posey, obviously.

I've wathed your precious Giants plenty. Molina is better.

 

[navamind]

I watched Varitek and Molina and I say Varitek is better.

 

[PackJason.]

I watched Varitek and Molina and I say Varitek is better.

Then your eyes are broken.

 

[navamind]

Then your eyes are broken.

It's almost like the eye test is subjective to bias.

 

[PackJason.]

It's almost like the eye test is subjective to bias.

That's a condition I don't have as I'm a Brewers fan backing a Cardinals player.

 

[calsnowskier]

I've wathed your precious Giants plenty. Molina is better.

Better/worse is not what I am arguing. I am arguing COMPARABLE. I am saying that their defensive prowess is similar. I am not granting that either is better than the other. I don’t really believe in defense metrics, but even they would say that the two are very close.

Offensive metrics, conversely, are very accurate (imho). And THOSE metrics are not comparable. Posey is CLEARLY better offensively. Posey has borderline HOF offensive numbers, regardless of position. Molina has very pedestrian offensive numbers regardless of position. Taking position into the equation and Posey has CLEARLY HOF-worthy offensive numbers while Molina has all-star worthy numbers (but not HOF).

Granting your take that Molina is better defensively (not that I am arguing against this take, I just am not granting it outright)…

Defensively…

Molina >> Posey

Offensively…

Posey >>>>>> Molina

 

[navamind]

Yep. Best defensive catcher I've ever seen.

And he was a better hitter and baserunner. So why doesn't he rank ahead?