A Nice Mariners Read

[NWinAZ]

Prioritization | Seattle Sports Insider

If you are an apologist for the team, you may not like the article as much....or at all.

 

[cezero]

Fun reading. I think Z sold the front office on the idea that he can build a contending team through farm building and signing 2 megacontracts.

It's so bizarre because it's actually working this year. I think the thing we all find frustrating is that the team could be so much more with just a few tweaks.

I agree completely with the article's premise that the front office is indifferent to winning if they can make money without having to worry about it too deeply. It's kinda sad.

 

[NWinAZ]

That is what I got from it. And Z premise does work, but he just can't draft the farm like he needs to. And no excuse because we have had plenty of high picks under Jack and have lost very few picks do to free agent signings.

 

[seahawksfan234]

The article is pretty accurate and just illustrates what we all already know about the team.

 

[NWinAZ]

Agreed, but I enjoy it because it is on print for apologists can read so they know it just isn't us fans that believe more can be done. It is well illustrated for them an answers all their questions before they can even ask them.

 

[gohusk]

These articles are great and all but let's not gloss over the fact that from 2007-2010 the M's were top 10 in payroll each year. The problem is that the franchise got burnt on some pretty dumb contracts (cough, Carlos Silva, cough) and was bleeding money for a while. When those cash flow numbers were leaked that showed how the Pirates were making money with an empty stadium I think it showed the M's as the franchise with one of the worst cash flows. We now have a solid base to work with and we are a couple of solid bats away from contention. Hopefully ownership comes out of its shell and is willing to spend again.

 

[NWinAZ]

Mariners have never bled money. The article is on point saying that even IF they were to lose money in a given year, and they have not, it is just cost of doing business with the actual profit payoff coming at the end when they sell. You have to spend a buck to make a buck and Mariners have made hundreds of millions of bucks while never losing one.

They choose not to spend because like the article says, they don't care about baseball. Baseball is an afterthought in this whole thing. It is a byproduct to making money. They will be tested in this next month because it is one thing to hide from the complaints during an off season, but it is another when the trade deadline comes up and you are in position to make the playoffs.

 

[wazzu31]

That is what I got from it. And Z premise does work, but he just can't draft the farm like he needs to. And no excuse because we have had plenty of high picks under Jack and have lost very few picks do to free agent signings.

The formula Jack tries using could work he just isn't the guy to execute it. With Foster and Vargas being value trades they should had one major contributor. You have to give credit for Seager but not much else in his tenure is worth much. Ownership is obviously not great but they should be alot further along than what they are.

 

[NWinAZ]

Add Lee to that list and we should have had 3 starters who contribute and at least 2 MiLB prospects for future or trade to with it. You can't miss that bad on trading good pitchers. The draft is a whole different f'ed up'ed thing.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Don't forget Pineda.

Z has traded away an entire pitching staff and has absolutely nothing to show for it.

Rotation of pitchers the Mariners have traded away, along with what they have done since leaving the Mariners:
Brandon Morrow: 4.40 ERA 93 GS
Cliff Lee: 2.98 ERA 103 GS
Doug Fister: 3.23 ERA 80 GS
Erik Bedard: 4.71 ERA 73 GS
Michael Pineda: 1.83 ERA 4 GS
Jason Vargas: 3.70 ERA 43 GS

Some of those guys haven't been great, but have been servicable. Others like Fister, Vargas and Lee would form a really solid top of the rotation.

 

[cezero]

Add Lee to that list and we should have had 3 starters who contribute and at least 2 MiLB prospects for future or trade to with it. You can't miss that bad on trading good pitchers. The draft is a whole different f'ed up'ed thing.

i give a pass on lee, but that's about it.

before and after getting traded to seattle, he told the press in philly and seattle that all he wanted to do was get back there the following offseason, and there he has been ever since.

z wasn't going to get a prospect any better than smoak for 3 months of lee, which every team outside of philly knew was all they were going to get.

 

[cezero]

i remember disagreeing with NW last year about going all in for a guy like stanton.

but now I agree completely with that kind of thinking. it would be different if this organization had shown they could consistently develop mlb hitters, but they haven't.

 

[NWinAZ]

Don't forget Pineda.

Z has traded away an entire pitching staff and has absolutely nothing to show for it.

Rotation of pitchers the Mariners have traded away, along with what they have done since leaving the Mariners:
Brandon Morrow: 4.40 ERA 93 GS
Cliff Lee: 2.98 ERA 103 GS
Doug Fister: 3.23 ERA 80 GS
Erik Bedard: 4.71 ERA 73 GS
Michael Pineda: 1.83 ERA 4 GS
Jason Vargas: 3.70 ERA 43 GS

Some of those guys haven't been great, but have been servicable. Others like Fister, Vargas and Lee would form a really solid top of the rotation.

Thanks, I did forget and I really didn't need reminded.

 

[NWinAZ]

i remember disagreeing with NW last year about going all in for a guy like stanton.

but now I agree completely with that kind of thinking. it would be different if this organization had shown they could consistently develop mlb hitters, but they haven't.

That's what happens when I talk enough. I am bound to be right once.

 

[wazzu31]

Don't forget Pineda.

Z has traded away an entire pitching staff and has absolutely nothing to show for it.

Rotation of pitchers the Mariners have traded away, along with what they have done since leaving the Mariners:
Brandon Morrow: 4.40 ERA 93 GS
Cliff Lee: 2.98 ERA 103 GS
Doug Fister: 3.23 ERA 80 GS
Erik Bedard: 4.71 ERA 73 GS
Michael Pineda: 1.83 ERA 4 GS
Jason Vargas: 3.70 ERA 43 GS

Some of those guys haven't been great, but have been servicable. Others like Fister, Vargas and Lee would form a really solid top of the rotation.

Damn, I forgot about Lee and Morrow as well. I wouldn't necessarily put Bedard in that mix but Jack has had an entire pitching rotation full of trade bait and has whiffed on all of them. He kind of hit on the Vargas dealfor a year but a guy like Vargas needed to be dealt either of the prior deadlines to get prospects over a rent a player.

My huge deal with Jack is he does not get value during any of his deals, he got raped with value in all his deals. The Lee deal because not only did he trade Lee but he traded a coveted power closer arm in Lowe then somehow got away with his PR stint of he didn't do any homework on I think it was Lueke or whoever that guy was who was accused of r*pe or whatever.