Series Thread: 2nd Round: 1) Celtics vs 4) Cavs

[Shanemansj13]

Nothing in his comment is wrong. If I am being honest.

 

[Shanemansj13]

In what way, shooting %?

the on and off numbers are pretty different. The eye test is pretty clear.

 

[shopson67]

Mobley - 16/9/3 on 58% shooting and 37% from 3 with a +13 O and D rating per 100 possessions

Bam - 16/10/5, 56% and 14% and +10

You could've just said yes

 

[trojanfan12]

1) But how about if the team meets or exceeds expectations and players are progressing which is more accurate (first part a fact)?

That's what's interesting with a young team and a relatively inexperienced coach. Some players take a little longer to develop. That begs the question...is the issue the coach? or the player developing at his own pace? I see Mobley mentioned a bit because of offense. It can be difficult for "defense first guys" to start demanding the ball on offense. AD has been in the league for 8 or 9 years and still struggles with that.

 

[dtgold88]

Nothing in his comment is wrong. If I am being honest.

he should have added "but he's 6 or so years from his prime seasons" but his comments are fair, I guess.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Mobley - 16/9/3 on 58% shooting and 37% from 3 with a +13 O and D rating per 100 possessions

Bam - 16/10/5, 56% and 14% and +10

Bam is and never will be a 3 pt shooter...well I guess you never know. He has been pretty damn good in mid-range.

Bam was more willing to take those mid-range jumpers. Mobley more efficient near the hoop. More 10 ft to 3 pt fg's is a good way to stretch your game and get defenders to respect your shot. Would like to see more of that from Mobley like AD expanded his game. Mobley has shot more 3's which is great but still about 1.3 per game

17-18


18-19


19-20


Mobley's 3rd year

Bam's 3rd year

 

[dtgold88]

the on and off numbers are pretty different. The eye test is pretty clear.

If you watched Bam's year 3 season vs. Mobley's what did your eyes show you that did not actually happen (FYI, to compile stats one needs eyes). Did he miss shots he actually made through your eyes, for instance?

Saw the O rating on/off but didn't see D rating. something you noticed in their year 3 seasons that was "pretty different"?

 

[Shanemansj13]

That's what's interesting with a young team and a relatively inexperienced coach. Some players take a little longer to develop. That begs the question...is the issue the coach? or the player developing at his own pace? I see Mobley mentioned a bit because of offense. It can be difficult for "defense first guys" to start demanding the ball on offense. AD has been in the league for 8 or 9 years and still struggles with that.

It could be both. AD was always expanding his range and willing to take those shots though but he was also a #1 on that N.O. team. Mobley doesn't get the same opportunity. I don't think that is an excuse though. We see him some games take plenty of shots and aggressive. Like you said, with a young player and defensive first it could take longer. AD seemed like that type but he expanded his game by year 2 or 3. It took him much longer to shoot more 3's but he got to where his mid-range was money.

 

[dtgold88]

You could've just said yes

I mean, the answer would have been no since you said "in what way, shooting %?" and it was a lot more than that.

 

[Shanemansj13]

If you watched Bam's year 3 season vs. Mobley's what did your eyes show you that did not actually happen (FYI, to compile stats one needs eyes). Did he miss shots he actually made through your eyes, for instance?

Saw the O rating on/off but didn't see D rating. something you noticed in their year 3 seasons that was "pretty different"?

My comment was regarding Allen

 

[dtgold88]

That's what's interesting with a young team and a relatively inexperienced coach. Some players take a little longer to develop. That begs the question...is the issue the coach? or the player developing at his own pace? I see Mobley mentioned a bit because of offense. It can be difficult for "defense first guys" to start demanding the ball on offense. AD has been in the league for 8 or 9 years and still struggles with that.

I don't get the angst for the kid.....Hell, I hoped he might be a little better on O this year but if I was told he'd go for 16/9/3 on 58% shooting and his 3 point % would have gone up to 37% with continued elite D I'd have taken it.

I mean, I'm confident if you put him on, say, Utah or Toronto instead of LM and Barnes the guy is something like a 20-12 guy (at worse 18-11) and maybe his elite defense leads to more winning.

Can he get to those numbers on THIS team? Will have to wait and see, I guess.

 

[dtgold88]

My comment was regarding Allen

Not sure why you mentioned Allen, but OK......was it in response to my saying can make a case he is our most important player?

 

[trojanfan12]

It could be both. AD was always expanding his range and willing to take those shots though but he was also a #1 on that N.O. team. Mobley doesn't get the same opportunity. I don't think that is an excuse though. We see him some games take plenty of shots and aggressive. Like you said, with a young player and defensive first it could take longer. AD seemed like that type but he expanded his game by year 2 or 3. It took him much longer to shoot more 3's but he got to where his mid-range was money.

And to be fair, AD was actually a point guard before a growth spurt turned him into a 4/5. So, he had already developed some offensive skills.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I don't get the angst for the kid.....Hell, I hoped he might be a little better on O this year but if I was told he'd go for 16/9/3 on 58% shooting and his 3 point % would have gone up to 37% with continued elite D I'd have taken it.

I mean, I'm confident if you put him on, say, Utah or Toronto instead of LM and Barnes the guy is something like a 20-12 guy (at worse 18-11) and maybe his elite defense leads to more winning.

Can he get to those numbers on THIS team? Will have to wait and see, I guess.

It's not about the numbers at all. If you watch the games you know what people are seeing.

Like I pointed out a couple things in the Boston game, aggressiveness, when they need someone else other than Garland or Mitchell....not much there. You are taking it like we think he sucks. He hasn't been as good in the playoffs, plain and simple. yes, he is young. He is way too passive. That is not a good habit. Blame coaching, scheme, work ethic, lack of aggressiveness...need to see more. That is all Windhorst is saying.

I am sure Windhorst is looking at these playoffs and saying this too so if that is the case...it totally makes sense. Realistically, he has been the 3rd option with Allen out and 12 ppg isn't enough. I think lots thought he would be more aggressive with Allen out. That hasn't happened, averaging 11 ppg. Rebounding has been great, defense great most of the time...Cavs need offense though and he has pretty fresh legs.

 

[Shanemansj13]

And to be fair, AD was actually a point guard before a growth spurt turned him into a 4/5. So, he had already developed some offensive skills.

Yes that growth spurt helped. All the talk with Mobley coming out that he could handle the ball like a SF though too. his dribbling skills are far above average like his athleticism. I think most expected him to grow faster with his skillset imo

 

[dtgold88]

It's not about the numbers at all. If you watch the games you know what people are seeing.

Like I pointed out a couple things in the Boston game, aggressiveness, when they need someone else other than Garland or Mitchell....not much there. You are taking it like we think he sucks. He hasn't been as good in the playoffs, plain and simple. yes, he is young. He is way too passive. That is not a good habit. Blame coaching, scheme, work ethic, lack of aggressiveness...need to see more. That is all Windhorst is saying.

I am sure Windhorst is looking at these playoffs and saying this too so if that is the case...it totally makes sense. Realistically, he has been the 3rd option with Allen out and 12 ppg isn't enough. I think lots thought he would be more aggressive with Allen out. That hasn't happened, averaging 11 ppg. Rebounding has been great, defense great most of the time...Cavs need offense though and he has pretty fresh legs.

do you just miss it or ignore where I say he (and Garland) need to be more aggressive?

I am not taking it as though you think he sucks as I don't get extreme like that or make things up that you didn't say (like claiming I said he is perfect, can do no wrong and cannot improve). Hasn't been as good as what in the playoffs? Had 1 really bad game but other than that he's been fine. Was also fine in game 1 vs. the Cs. Would it have been better if he started off better? Of course. But I'm sure if he started off great then cooled down you'd have had the same complaints.

"Need" to see more? I think I'd like to see more but is true his year 3 season has been as good or better than Bam who does seem like a good comparison for him. Did Bam do better in that year playoffs? Past round 2 absolutely and props for him for taking a big leap in that series (wonder if he was called soft for a far, far worse year 2 playoff series....4/4/0?). Players improve at different rates, though.

No doubt the Cavs need O somewhere....I'm in the camp I don't really care where it comes from. Just find a way to get it and, preferably, get a surprise W. We need another Game 7 type game where both Mitchell and the other top players and/or role players play well.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Plagued with injuries another postseason, not like they had much of a chance anyway. If Allen and Mobley are out they have no chance. Wade isn't coming back. Mitchell with a bum knee isn't scoring 50 or 60.

 

[dtgold88]

Plagued with injuries another postseason, not like they had much of a chance anyway. If Allen and Mobley are out they have no chance. Wade isn't coming back. Mitchell with a bum knee isn't scoring 50 or 60.

Not sure if it matters but not showing up on injury report on draftkings.

But yeah that would be kind of bad. Have the Cs become the Warriors when it comes to opponent injuries in the playoffs?

 

[Shanemansj13]

Not sure if it matters but not showing up on injury report on draftkings.

But yeah that would be kind of bad. Have the Cs become the Warriors when it comes to opponent injuries in the playoffs?

Maybe he plays regardless

 

[BigKen]

Have the Cs become the Warriors when it comes to opponent injuries in the playoffs?

Let's be honest. The Celtics don't need other teams to have injuries to beat them. They didn't win 62 games because every team had injuries.

And Porzingis hasn't and may not play against the Cavs.

Injuries are a part of every sport and every team has to be prepared to lose players and play with backups.

'nuff said.