2016 Sanchez or Lynch is not 2015 PMF

[CEH]

We keep hearing the same theme. Last year, Denver had bad QBing play and still won the Super Bowl. We can microwave Lynch or play Sanchez and if he plays close to last year's QB, Denver can compete.
The problem I see with this premise is one difference. Last year's QB was PMF. Even though Peyton was playing bad, the locker room never divided. I seriously doubt this year if Sanchez or Lynch is performing at that same level, the defense would feel the same. I suspect a divided locker room with the defense calling out the offense in the media.

This is why I believe in order to compete this year, the QB play has to improve from last year not to mention the 6 TDs the defense contributed nearly a FG a game. I don't except that again.

I'd like to see the QB completion % around 65% , TD to INT 26 to 10. The running game needs to be over 2K combined.

 

[WalkerBoh]

We keep hearing the same theme. Last year, Denver had bad QBing play and still won the Super Bowl. We can microwave Lynch or play Sanchez and if he plays close to last year's QB, Denver can compete.
The problem I see with this premise is one difference. Last year's QB was PMF. Even though Peyton was playing bad, the locker room never divided. I seriously doubt this year if Sanchez or Lynch is performing at that same level, the defense would feel the same. I suspect a divided locker room with the defense calling out the offense in the media.

This is why I believe in order to compete this year, the QB play has to improve from last year not to mention the 6 TDs the defense contributed nearly a FG a game. I don't except that again.

I'd like to see the QB completion % around 65% , TD to INT 26 to 10. The running game needs to be over 2K combined.

No one gets "called out" when the team is winning. There will be no divided locker room either, unless we are already having a losing season. It's kinda the way most NFL teams work. Plus, I'm confident in Elway and Kubiak to nip such things in the bud.

That said, I expect we will see an offense that plays more consistently this season.

 

[cdumler7]

I do agree our offense needs to do more to take some pressure off this defense. To me though it really boils more down to the run game than that of the QB play. We get the run game going and life is much easier for whoever is starting at QB. The FO has shown a huge commitment more so to the run game than the pass game in my opinion. We didn't draft any WR's or TE's in this draft and the OL McGovern is more known for his power in moving people in the run game. Throw in Okung coming over from Seattle that has had a top-5 rushing team for a few years and that of Stephenson who again is coming from a team committed to running the football. In fact both of those teams finished top-6 in yards rushing this last year. Both were top-10 the year before that. So again OL guys known for run blocking.

So to me if our offense is to be a success this year it will be because we have a top-10 rushing attack that helps our defense stay fresh and makes teams have to respect that we will just keep pounding it all game long with Anderson and Booker.

Now yes I do think we need better production from the QB position as well but how hard can that be? I mean we were bottom 3 in almost every single category there is for the QB position. Most interceptions thrown by a team, 2nd worst QB rating (Rams were the only team worse), and 28th in passing touchdowns thrown. If we can't improve on that then yes our season is in jeopardy.

 

[SpiritOf77]

2016 Sanchez or Lynch is not 2015 PMF

.. and thank god for that

Super Bowl stats:

- 194 Total Yards
- 104 Passing Yards ( 13 completions - 23 attempts )
- 1 for 14 on 3rd down conversions
- 3.7 yards per pass
- 3.5 yards per play

Say what you want about Manning's presence out there - I cannot see how that was beneficial in any way, shape or form ..

Add to that Hillman - 5 carries, zero yards

Our offense will only get better - there isn't much choice

 

[SpiritOf77]

Not only was Manning awful ( he had clear view of this, and still forced it ), but Kony Ealy looked better than any of our RBs returning this gift

 

[Broncosr0k]

I don't even think we have the personnel that will call out their offense when it is struggling. I think the players on defense worry about handling their business. I don't see any with a character that would toss the offense under the bus.

 

[Manimal Sighting]

I don't even think we have the personnel that will call out their offense when it is struggling. I think the players on defense worry about handling their business. I don't see any with a character that would toss the offense under the bus.

This is where I see the emphasis on 'locker room culture' being so important to our team. Yes Ware will have an even more declined presence on the field this year but so much of his value is in the locker room. Im still convinced that last year the D took advantage of having a bad O and became great in part because they had to. They could have so easily called out Peyton or the Offense and created a ton of distractions/tension.

It sounds bad but I feel like the O has to improve (if you are at the bottom, only way to go is up) but the D is a concern. My worry is less about replacing trevathan, malik, etc and more just that you can't really count on historic D to continue. Don't get me wrong, love drafting for D in high rounds, good free agent fits, good coaching and all but hard to keep up that pace. Feel like they are doomed to falter at some point and when that point comes I truly hope our running game is what I hope it can become. If it does we will be that team that can get up on you, burn clock and force you into bad situations then take advantage of mistakes with killer depth.

ps a good run game keeps our D off the field and generally healthier which in my opinion is one of the most important factors come playoff time

 

[Manimal Sighting]

Clearly I think the run game is important, maybe we should try to get Kony Ealy to replace hillman. turn those 0 yd runs into something

 

[Rockinkuwait]

We keep hearing the same theme. Last year, Denver had bad QBing play and still won the Super Bowl. We can microwave Lynch or play Sanchez and if he plays close to last year's QB, Denver can compete.
The problem I see with this premise is one difference. Last year's QB was PMF. Even though Peyton was playing bad, the locker room never divided. I seriously doubt this year if Sanchez or Lynch is performing at that same level, the defense would feel the same. I suspect a divided locker room with the defense calling out the offense in the media.

This is why I believe in order to compete this year, the QB play has to improve from last year not to mention the 6 TDs the defense contributed nearly a FG a game. I don't except that again.

I'd like to see the QB completion % around 65% , TD to INT 26 to 10. The running game needs to be over 2K combined.

Agreed,

I think that's one thing I keep seeing and have seen again and again in years past... When someone says if everything else plays as well, all we need is the QB to be as good. And you see it again and again that the rest of the team fails to keep up to that level where they can win with crappy QB play. You know.. The "we made the SB with (insert Dilfer, Grossman, Brad Johnson, Eason, Kapp, Woodley, Collins) so we should be fine with a meh QB... And almost always they need a LOT better play to be where they were. I think it's unlikely things will look as good as last year outside of the QB position, seasons like that are really rare for a reason.

 

[randymon]

I do agree our offense needs to do more to take some pressure off this defense. To me though it really boils more down to the run game than that of the QB play. We get the run game going and life is much easier for whoever is starting at QB. The FO has shown a huge commitment more so to the run game than the pass game in my opinion. We didn't draft any WR's or TE's in this draft and the OL McGovern is more known for his power in moving people in the run game. Throw in Okung coming over from Seattle that has had a top-5 rushing team for a few years and that of Stephenson who again is coming from a team committed to running the football. In fact both of those teams finished top-6 in yards rushing this last year. Both were top-10 the year before that. So again OL guys known for run blocking.

So to me if our offense is to be a success this year it will be because we have a top-10 rushing attack that helps our defense stay fresh and makes teams have to respect that we will just keep pounding it all game long with Anderson and Booker.

Now yes I do think we need better production from the QB position as well but how hard can that be? I mean we were bottom 3 in almost every single category there is for the QB position. Most interceptions thrown by a team, 2nd worst QB rating (Rams were the only team worse), and 28th in passing touchdowns thrown. If we can't improve on that then yes our season is in jeopardy.

I`m still just flabbergasted by how some think the run game can work without the threat of a Qb that can make a D pay if they commit to stopping the run. I`m totally on board with CEH that you can kiss your run game good bye if the Qb play isn`t worthy. Enough of this Peyton's "stats" being any dictation as to how this offense can be run by "any " Friggin qb and all we have to do is run,run,run. As bad as Peyton's stats were, he more than made up for in reading the D and putting people in the right spots, made them ( defenses) guess on their alignments and assignments, saw weaknesses that enabled him call a run play that got crucial first down, a quick out to Sanders because he saw the S playing off,etc,etc,etc,etc! He made crucial first downs and moved the team into scoring position. Yes, because of his diminished physical talents, he failed in converting scoring opportunities into Tds but he certainly gave McManus plenty of opportunities for 3 pts that by the way we won a lot of games by. Why are some so blind to think that any `ol Joe at Qb is better or just as good as Peyton Manning, and that he really had nothing to do with a SB and the D won every game . Jesus! Good post CEH. Glad to see someone has a grasp on what it really takes to make the whole machine work, despite " THE STATS " baloney. I`m retired. I listen to everything and anything football related every day and have for years now and 90% of all the info I listen to says the exact opposite of many of you that think Joe Smoo can Qb this team as well as, or as bad as according to some, as Manning did and lead Denver to a repeat. They all say Sanchez or even Lynch ( which is about 10 % ) " COULD " guide Denver to a repeat but whoever is at the helm, better have a very good passing threat or no matter how improved or devoted Denver is to the running game, they will not have sucsess in their attempt to go back to SB. The secondary is getting bigger and stronger. Big guys that are very physical ( like Lbs but with speed ) and if they want to crowd the line of scrimmage and play the run, I don`t care who you are they will stop you. Even if you don`t watch/listen to any of the noise out there, you would think that those that have watched the game long enough, paid attention to what it is that the teams that continually compete year in and year out have working for them.... A very capable QB who instills a threat to beat them thru the air if they over commit. I`m done. Once again, good job CEH and the others on here that at least recognize the recipe. Hate me all you want.

 

[iknowftbll]

Randy and CEH are officially off my Christmas card list for their negativity!



Really, it is a fair argument to make. Manning's intellect provided a great degree of value and that value cannot be quantified. But the game is still about execution. Manning did come through in critical moments (11 minute drive against the Ravens that iced the game, looked unstoppable against Chiefs needing to tie the game late, inspiring playoff run, etc...) but it was evident he struggled in the system.

Manning is still a better QB than Mark Sanchez. But it may not be about having the best QB so much as the right QB. And that's why I am optimistic about Sanchez. Kubiak's offense depends on the run first, and it'll be important to establish the run threat early and often. But from there it really helps if the QB can roll out, run bootlegs, scramble, etc. (PS: One of my favorite post-season plays was that 18 yard scramble by Manning against the Steelers. Tell me that man wasn't serious about winning!) Sanchez can do those things. Manning, not so much. And it didn't help that the running game last year was hit and miss. So you've got a 50/50 run game and a QB whose brain is unparalleled but physical skills a poor fit for the offense. No wonder it wasn't as smooth as we wanted it to be!

It seems pretty evident to me Kubiak is putting it all in on the run game this year. If that doesn't work and the ground game is hit/miss again then we will have issues all season. I've spelled out a few of the reasons I believe the ground game will work, though the turnover again on the offensive line should concern us all.

Assuming the ground game can keep the offense churning, I do think Sanchez is in a position to have a career year. Nobody saw Ryan Fitzpatrick having the year he did last year, but he killed it with the Jets. I see no reason Sanchez cannot have a similar career-reviving year. And if he has a reasonable asking price on the back side the Broncos may get a solid comp pick for him.

 

[MileHigh64]

I can certainly understand why a lot of Broncos fans believe that Sanchez will be a serious upgrade from last year but honestly, I don't see it. History speaks far louder than the optimism of the off season. However, I do think the Broncos running game improves. Most importantly, I think the Broncos are going into 2016 with the mindset that they want to see Paxton Lynch under center sooner rather than later. An improved running game, a minimized offense with Lynch and our great defense could still spell trouble for NFL opponents. I've got the Broncos pulling out 10 to 11 wins in 2016 and we'll be right back in the SB hunt throughout the playoffs. Go Broncos!

MH64

 

[randymon]

Both those posts by IKF and MH64 were exactly what I wanted to hear. I never said or have said that I don`t believe Sanchez or whoever can work this system well and be successful. It can work. But whoever is at the helm better prove he can hurt you if you dedicate to stopping the run. It`s not rocket science. I appreciate both posts and its good to see that some 'get it" and aren`t just talking out their butts and actually have great points and knowledge about what works and what does`nt. back at ya and its ok if you skip me this year on the Xmas card. You`ve earned my respect.

 

[WalkerBoh]

I can certainly understand why a lot of Broncos fans believe that Sanchez will be a serious upgrade from last year but honestly, I don't see it. History speaks far louder than the optimism of the off season. However, I do think the Broncos running game improves. Most importantly, I think the Broncos are going into 2016 with the mindset that they want to see Paxton Lynch under center sooner rather than later. An improved running game, a minimized offense with Lynch and our great defense could still spell trouble for NFL opponents. I've got the Broncos pulling out 10 to 11 wins in 2016 and we'll be right back in the SB hunt throughout the playoffs. Go Broncos!

MH64

Don't forget that part of Sanchez history includes strong playoff performances and two AFC Championship games.

 

[WalkerBoh]

I`m still just flabbergasted by how some think the run game can work without the threat of a Qb that can make a D pay if they commit to stopping the run. I`m totally on board with CEH that you can kiss your run game good bye if the Qb play isn`t worthy. Enough of this Peyton's "stats" being any dictation as to how this offense can be run by "any " Friggin qb and all we have to do is run,run,run. As bad as Peyton's stats were, he more than made up for in reading the D and putting people in the right spots, made them ( defenses) guess on their alignments and assignments, saw weaknesses that enabled him call a run play that got crucial first down, a quick out to Sanders because he saw the S playing off,etc,etc,etc,etc! He made crucial first downs and moved the team into scoring position. Yes, because of his diminished physical talents, he failed in converting scoring opportunities into Tds but he certainly gave McManus plenty of opportunities for 3 pts that by the way we won a lot of games by. Why are some so blind to think that any `ol Joe at Qb is better or just as good as Peyton Manning, and that he really had nothing to do with a SB and the D won every game . Jesus! Good post CEH. Glad to see someone has a grasp on what it really takes to make the whole machine work, despite " THE STATS " baloney. I`m retired. I listen to everything and anything football related every day and have for years now and 90% of all the info I listen to says the exact opposite of many of you that think Joe Smoo can Qb this team as well as, or as bad as according to some, as Manning did and lead Denver to a repeat. They all say Sanchez or even Lynch ( which is about 10 % ) " COULD " guide Denver to a repeat but whoever is at the helm, better have a very good passing threat or no matter how improved or devoted Denver is to the running game, they will not have sucsess in their attempt to go back to SB. The secondary is getting bigger and stronger. Big guys that are very physical ( like Lbs but with speed ) and if they want to crowd the line of scrimmage and play the run, I don`t care who you are they will stop you. Even if you don`t watch/listen to any of the noise out there, you would think that those that have watched the game long enough, paid attention to what it is that the teams that continually compete year in and year out have working for them.... A very capable QB who instills a threat to beat them thru the air if they over commit. I`m done. Once again, good job CEH and the others on here that at least recognize the recipe. Hate me all you want.

You missed the one HUGE thing both Sanchez and Lynch offer that Manning could not: the threat of the deep ball. No one was scared of Manning last season. Manning got eaten alive by the Chiefs and one reason for that was they didn't even consider Manning could throw deep. So where you get this idea that defenses will suddenly start clogging up the line of scrimmage is a bit of a mystery, since that's exactly what they were doing against Manning last season anyway. I get it. You think all we have is crap at the QB position. I disagree with that assessment, and pose the point that if defenses think they can simply clog the LOS next season they will pay a price. They will have to look out for a QB that can roll out and throw or run. They will have to look out for a QB capable of regularly throwing the ball further than 5 yards in the air. There will be different reasons why defenses could be caught guessing. And that can only help the run game.

 

[58crash]

Mijick

I`m still just flabbergasted by how some think the run game can work without the threat of a Qb that can make a D pay if they commit to stopping the run. I`m totally on board with CEH that you can kiss your run game good bye if the Qb play isn`t worthy. Enough of this Peyton's "stats" being any dictation as to how this offense can be run by "any " Friggin qb and all we have to do is run,run,run. As bad as Peyton's stats were, he more than made up for in reading the D and putting people in the right spots, made them ( defenses) guess on their alignments and assignments, saw weaknesses that enabled him call a run play that got crucial first down, a quick out to Sanders because he saw the S playing off,etc,etc,etc,etc! He made crucial first downs and moved the team into scoring position. Yes, because of his diminished physical talents, he failed in converting scoring opportunities into Tds but he certainly gave McManus plenty of opportunities for 3 pts that by the way we won a lot of games by. Why are some so blind to think that any `ol Joe at Qb is better or just as good as Peyton Manning, and that he really had nothing to do with a SB and the D won every game . Jesus! Good post CEH. Glad to see someone has a grasp on what it really takes to make the whole machine work, despite " THE STATS " baloney. I`m retired. I listen to everything and anything football related every day and have for years now and 90% of all the info I listen to says the exact opposite of many of you that think Joe Smoo can Qb this team as well as, or as bad as according to some, as Manning did and lead Denver to a repeat. They all say Sanchez or even Lynch ( which is about 10 % ) " COULD " guide Denver to a repeat but whoever is at the helm, better have a very good passing threat or no matter how improved or devoted Denver is to the running game, they will not have sucsess in their attempt to go back to SB. The secondary is getting bigger and stronger. Big guys that are very physical ( like Lbs but with speed ) and if they want to crowd the line of scrimmage and play the run, I don`t care who you are they will stop you. Even if you don`t watch/listen to any of the noise out there, you would think that those that have watched the game long enough, paid attention to what it is that the teams that continually compete year in and year out have working for them.... A very capable QB who instills a threat to beat them thru the air if they over commit. I`m done. Once again, good job CEH and the others on here that at least recognize the recipe. Hate me all you want.

I don't hate anyone .. But I see a lot of half truths stated .. People want to blame this only mentality ..

DT was behind all Ficken year it showed !Why DT was somewhat on the first part of the year was We ran Gase O

When we went more Kubiak as the year wore on DT went invisible !

So people can lay blame all around it was not all on just one problem .. It was dropped football ,OL ,WR not knowing there Ficken job because of lazy .. He stated he knew for a wile he was going to stay a Bronco .. and yes that pissed me off .

And yes Manning struggled but really no more than the rest of the player on O . So stop with it being just one player there was plenty blame to go around .

 

[SpiritOf77]

Good article with Jake Plummer talking about Kubiak's system, and the time required to run it .. While reading this, it sort of set in how uncomfortable it must have been for Manning last season, having had so much success running his own system for his entire career, then having to adapt to something completely out of his own comfort zone ..

Jake Plummer: Broncos rookie Paxton Lynch needs time to develop

 

[58crash]

Also yes the RG will get way better this year I will bet on this what ever youlike because we got way more mobile QB's bet me as you like you are about to lose .

We started to run way better as the year went on because we started to be stubborn and stopped Gases O in turn the RG got way, way better !

 

[58crash]

We will never run Gases O again .. At least with this staff

So the RG will be better from the start of the year .

 

[MileHigh64]

Don't forget that part of Sanchez history includes strong playoff performances and two AFC Championship games.

That's true and I suppose you could say that those Jets teams were the best group of players around Sanchez. Clearly, that's what some fans believe can happen again on a loaded Broncos squad. It very well could. I just can't get past the more recent Sanchez history and am still having a tough time feeling confident that he can lead the Broncos to continued glory. It's no secret around the league that the Broncos are fixing to be a running offense. As Randymon said, defenses are going to focus on stopping the running game and that leaves us with the quarterback needing to make something happen. I hope Sanchez can do it but his last couple of years leaves me in doubt.

I don't want to rush the kid but I can't wait to see Lynch get his shot. That's what I'm really looking forward to! I still believe the Broncos want him to be the starter too but they'll wait to see how the team plays with Sanchez at the helm. If Sanchez can pull it out, Paxton will sit indefinitely.