Series Thread: 1st round 2) Knicks vs 7) Sixers

[fightinfunbags]

I seem to be the only person who doesn't think this series is over. But in my defense, as a Knick fan I tend to expect the worse and am rarely wrong. The team being actually competent takes a bit of getting used to.

I mean it’s not over but I can’t see the same team that came up so small at home in the 4th Q of a must win game winning 3 in a row with 2 of them coming at the Garden.

 

[Cyder]

I mean it’s not over but I can’t see the same team that came up so small at home in the 4th Q of a must win game winning 3 in a row with 2 of them coming at the Garden.

I understand completely. But they could have won either of the first 2 games at the Garden and if they edge out game 5 all of a sudden the pressure is on the Knicks.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

In a very important sense, this debate about whether to trade Embiid might be irrelevant, because I suspect he is about to demand a trade after this season. I think he is running out of patience with the organization. Get ready for some superstar drama.

This is very possible

 

[fightinfunbags]

This is very possible

Not this year. They have clean books. There’s no other situation in the league where he can get:
1. A running mate that pairs as well with him as Maxey and their two man game
2. A virtual clean slate on the roster to add players around him.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Not this year. They have clean books. There’s no other situation in the league where he can get:
1. A running mate that pairs as well with him as Maxey and their two man game
2. A virtual clean slate on the roster to add players around him.

I think he definitely gives it a run this upcoming year. But if it's another failed playoff he looks elsewhere perhaps.

But honestly i think the biggest issue is him in a way.

 

[fightinfunbags]

But honestly i think the biggest issue is him in a way.

This is intriguing to me. Let me know where you’re coming from here

 

[Stakesarehigh]

This is intriguing to me. Let me know where you’re coming from here

The team seems to rely on him too heavily through the regular season that as we get into the playoffs and the D clamps down players are not adjusting.

It took a herculean 3rd game from him to take game 3. They should've won by 10 plus.

So basically the team is built in a way that he has to be A plus plus for them to make a big run and his health hasn't been there.

Obviously the only way this works is with a real 1B or C to pair with him and overall improved depth.

Really only LeBron has been able to lift teams through the playoffs almost single handedly and it's easier for a wing to do it than a big.

 

[fightinfunbags]

The team seems to rely on him too heavily through the regular season that as we get into the playoffs and the D clamps down players are not adjusting.

Then this year should have been the year. They got to play without him through 40-42 basketball games. No excuses for these guys hiding.

It took a herculean 3rd game from him to take game 3. They should've won by 10 plus.

I think they should have won all 4 games but the Knicks have been much tougher, much more disciplined, and the gutty team in closing out game.

So basically the team is built in a way that he has to be A plus plus for them to make a big run and his health hasn't been there.

He isn’t at full health and he’s still dominating. He needs others to stop

Obviously the only way this works is with a real 1B or C to pair with him and overall improved depth.

Not out there

Really only LeBron has been able to lift teams through the playoffs almost single handedly and it's easier for a wing to do it than a big.

Agree

 

[bksballer89]

Is it safe to post here again?

 

[Sparhawk]

Is it safe to post here again?

 

[Iggloo]

The team seems to rely on him too heavily through the regular season that as we get into the playoffs and the D clamps down players are not adjusting.

It took a herculean 3rd game from him to take game 3. They should've won by 10 plus.

So basically the team is built in a way that he has to be A plus plus for them to make a big run and his health hasn't been there.

Obviously the only way this works is with a real 1B or C to pair with him and overall improved depth.

Really only LeBron has been able to lift teams through the playoffs almost single handedly and it's easier for a wing to do it than a big.

You basically nailed it. You have a team built around the skills of one player, and that player is great when healthy, but is pretty much never healthy by the postseason, every single year. At some point you have to question the premise that this is ever going to work. Obviously right now it's not working and the team has two choices--try rebuilding around Embiid yet again, or part ways with Embiid. I think they will keep trying to add pieces around Embiid, and unfortunately, it is never going to work.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

You basically nailed it. You have a team built around the skills of one player, and that player is great when healthy, but is pretty much never healthy by the postseason, every single year. At some point you have to question the premise that this is ever going to work. Obviously right now it's not working and the team has two choices--try rebuilding around Embiid yet again, or part ways with Embiid. I think they will keep trying to add pieces around Embiid, and unfortunately, it is never going to work.

What fucked them was Simmons becoming the world's biggest bitch.

If you have prime Ben and Maxey that's a lot to deal with.

If I was a sixers fan I'd hate that man so much

 

[The Q]

Disagree. Bamba is bigger but he’s actually worse as a defender. I don’t know how you can be as big as Bamba is and not be a rim protector but he’s not. This one is partly on Daryl Morey for not wanting to give up a first for Drummond with Embiid out and the Bulls for being delusional in not blowing up their squad. Morey more so. He has undervalued the back up 5.

On Nurse: he needed to do something to rebound better and putting Reed on the floor with Embiid was at least worth a try.

The entire fourth quarter offense was just an abortion. They shot 35% in a must win at home. Just unacceptable.

Trade Reed for nurk this summer

 

[The Q]

You basically nailed it. You have a team built around the skills of one player, and that player is great when healthy, but is pretty much never healthy by the postseason, every single year. At some point you have to question the premise that this is ever going to work. Obviously right now it's not working and the team has two choices--try rebuilding around Embiid yet again, or part ways with Embiid. I think they will keep trying to add pieces around Embiid, and unfortunately, it is never going to work.

I like this

Trade him out west

 

[The Q]

In a very important sense, this debate about whether to trade Embiid might be irrelevant, because I suspect he is about to demand a trade after this season. I think he is running out of patience with the organization. Get ready for some superstar drama.

I just popped a chub thinking about this…would be incredible

Ideally he wins a gold medal and then takes a shot at that crap hole Philly

 

[The Q]

Embiid starts.
Sixers open up a lead.
Embiid sits.
Lead dwindles.

If the Sixers do not find a way to get Embiid at least 4-5 minutes of rest each half, then it is over.

Last 2 minutes of each quarter

Gets him a bonus rest with the EOQ timeout as well

 

[The Q]

If a team is making a play for Embiid they’re not trading the top of their roster. You’ll get Julius Randle and you’ll get salary filler alonb with picks. Now we have a less talented playoff dropper in Randle.

Yeah it’s likely randle, bog and like 6-7 firsts

 

[Iggloo]

That's certainly one way to look at it. I think the truth is that they blew the talent evaluation part of the process in general.

They drafted mentally weak guys like Ben Simmons and Markelle Fultz, and anachronistic bigs like Jahlil Okafor whose games did not translate to the modern NBA. The failure was in how they used their draft capital poorly. Simmons was always a bitch, it just took a while for his true nature to become clear, once he was exposed by the Atlanta Hawks as a coward. He never recovered from that.

I fought with my stepdad a lot because I was convinced they should trade Simmons pretty early on, the year before the Atlanta playoff loss to be specific, because I didn't think Simmons loved the game enough to improve, and he thought it would be insane to trade a budding superstar.

Same debate we are now having with Embiid. Obviously Embiid is a much, much better player, no doubt there, but just like Simmons I think it is going to be very obvious in a few years that Philly should have traded him while he had peak value, knowing what they knew in that locker room. One more season and @fightinfunbags will come around to my thinking, but that may be too late to get any value in return.

 

[The Q]

That's certainly one way to look at it. I think the truth is that they blew the talent evaluation part of the process in general.

They drafted mentally weak guys like Ben Simmons and Markelle Fultz, and anachronistic bigs like Jahlil Okafor whose games did not translate to the modern NBA. The failure was in how they used their draft capital poorly. Simmons was always a bitch, it just took a while for his true nature to become clear, once he was exposed by the Atlanta Hawks as a coward. He never recovered from that.

I fought with my stepdad a lot because I was convinced they should trade Simmons pretty early on, the year before the Atlanta playoff loss to be specific, because I didn't think Simmons loved the game enough to improve, and he thought it would be insane to trade a budding superstar.

Same debate we are now having with Embiid. Obviously Embiid is a much, much better player, no doubt there, but just like Simmons I think it is going to be very obvious in a few years that Philly should have traded him while he had peak value, knowing what they knew in that locker room. One more season and @fightinfunbags will come around to my thinking, but that may be too late to get any value in return.

The only reason Philly is even relevant is embiid got hurt 4 months too early

They’re hopeless and likely still worthless without that

 

[trojanfan12]

You basically nailed it. You have a team built around the skills of one player, and that player is great when healthy, but is pretty much never healthy by the postseason, every single year. At some point you have to question the premise that this is ever going to work. Obviously right now it's not working and the team has two choices--try rebuilding around Embiid yet again, or part ways with Embiid. I think they will keep trying to add pieces around Embiid, and unfortunately, it is never going to work.

Any idea what his off season workouts are like? AD has had similar issues, changed his off-season workouts, played in 76 games this season and is healthy for the playoffs.

@fightinfunbags has a point re: having available space to land some FA's...maybe they can try to get him to change his off-season workouts and add some different pieces in FA?