Game Thread: Penguins GDT/GNT's week 11 (Dec 15 - Dec 21)

[thedddd]

Sill played the last 4 years with Wilkes-Barre and, as far as I can tell, this is his first season in the NHL. He's only played 20 games, but you're right he doesn't even have an assist. He wasn't a goal scorer in Wilkes-Barre, but he had a lot of big hits. Maybe that's all they were looking for in Pittsburgh, but I'll agree with Doobster. Bring up Dea or Pouloit and send Sill back down.

Oh yeah his job was to hit and hit often which he seemed to do well but with the points even the blind bird finds the worm at some point. I know his chances were slim and none to get points playing with the likes of Goc, Adams etc but if you forecheck and hit well enough in the offensive zone something should become of it sooner than now on one of the highest scoring teams.


As for Dea and Pouliot I see no reason not to try either out now. My only question with Dea how is he doing in traffic being a smaller player?

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Oh yeah his job was to hit and hit often which he seemed to do well but with the points even the blind bird finds the worm at some point. I know his chances were slim and none to get points playing with the likes of Goc, Adams etc but if you forecheck and hit well enough in the offensive zone something should become of it sooner than now on one of the highest scoring teams.


As for Dea and Pouliot I see no reason not to try either out now. My only question with Dea how is he doing in traffic being a smaller player?

I don't see any reason to keep Dea & Pouliot in the minors. Why is it that every other team plays their top prospects except for us?

 

[element1286]

Not sure how Dea and Pouliot relate to what they do with Zach Sill. Seem like development issues, not next man up issues. They don't bring them up because they won't play, or won't play enough. You bring up expendable guys who have no future beyond roster filler.

It's a bad idea asset management wise.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Just looking at other dmen drafted in 2012…

#2 Ryan Murray is play for the Blue Jackets
#4 Griffin Reinhart is playing for the Islanders
#6 Hampus Lindholm is playing for the Ducks
#7 Matt Dumba is playing for the Wild
#9 Jacob Trouba is playing for the Jets
#15 Cody Ceci is playing for the Senators
#22 Olli Maatta is playing for the Pens

Meanwhile, #8 Derrick Pouliot is wasting away in the minors

 

[element1286]

I get it Doobs, but breaking a strong group isn't easy. It makes more sense if Maata is out for the year and/or they figure out what they have in Borts, Doumolin, or Harrington. Don't see the point of bringing him up tomorrow, because it would mean they would have to make immediate decisions on guys who are assets.

And outside of Maata all those guys were brought up on bad teams. I hope he doesn't get jerked around like Despres, up and down from NHL to AHL, in and out of the lineup. But bringing him up now sets them up to jerk him around. They are still figuring out what they have in Despres, who is at the bottom of TOI for defensemen.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

I get it Doobs, but breaking a strong group isn't easy. It makes more sense if Maata is out for the year and/or they figure out what they have in Borts, Doumolin, or Harrington. Don't see the point of bringing him up tomorrow, because it would mean they would have to make immediate decisions on guys who are assets.

And outside of Maata all those guys were brought up on bad teams. I hope he doesn't get jerked around like Despres, up and down from NHL to AHL, in and out of the lineup. But bringing him up now sets them up to jerk him around. They are still figuring out what they have in Despres, who is at the bottom of TOI for defensemen.

Makes no sense to have Dumoulin or Harrington ahead of Pouliot in the depth chart. Pouliot is outperforming all of them in Wilkes-Barre and considered a much greater prospect.

After seeing what Olli Maatta could do for the Pens at his age, makes no sense to not play Pouliot, Pouliot is supposed to be better than Maatta.

If we're not going to play him, might as well see if we could trade him for Taylor Hall.

 

[Darkstone42]

Makes no sense to have Dumoulin or Harrington ahead of Pouliot in the depth chart. Pouliot is outperforming all of them in Wilkes-Barre and considered a much greater prospect.

After seeing what Olli Maatta could do for the Pens at his age, makes no sense to not play Pouliot, Pouliot is supposed to be better than Maatta.

If we're not going to play him, might as well see if we could trade him for Taylor Hall.

I would guess Pouliot gets the call this year if Martin gets dealt, but otherwise, there's no reason to call him up. Yeah, he might be an upgrade, but how much of one, and does that upgrade equate to simply cutting loose an asset for nothing? Maybe Scuderi's improved play this year will make him moveable for something. Maybe a team will give us a solid top-six winger for Martin. Now there's a legitimate vacancy in which to insert Pouliot. But if we just scratch Scuderi, he never builds trade value. If we scratch Despres, we don't know what we have in him. He's not going to play over Letang, Martin, and Ehrhoff, who have all been by and large pretty good this year (Ehrhoff has really picked up his game lately).

There's also a chance that while Pouliot is performing well in the AHL, he has certain habits he needs to break before being truly successful in the NHL. You can get away with a heck of a lot more in the minors.

And there's always a risk when you bring up a young guy to play significant minutes (and Pouliot will play significant minutes when he joins the Pens), and the team is winning a lot right now, so there's no real motivation to take that risk, because if he does get overwhelmed initially, like element said, you could end up with another Despres situation.

 

[thedddd]

And sorry on my comment to agreeing was thinking for Pouliot and Dea was due to injuries for the short term.

I am just not sure Dea is ready (due to lack of size) but I haven't watched him play.


As for Sill I see no reason to keep him around if Rust, Farnham or Payerl could do the same. The 12th forward on a team no reason to not try more than one option.

 

[Burghfan]

Makes no sense to have Dumoulin or Harrington ahead of Pouliot in the depth chart. Pouliot is outperforming all of them in Wilkes-Barre and considered a much greater prospect.

After seeing what Olli Maatta could do for the Pens at his age, makes no sense to not play Pouliot, Pouliot is supposed to be better than Maatta.

If we're not going to play him, might as well see if we could trade him for Taylor Hall.

Pouliot can score, no doubt about that, but he just doesn't seem to have a commitment to play defense. Reminds me of how Gonchar was. Pouliot has six goals, 13 assists, but he is even in the plus/minus. Dumolin has 2 goals, 8 assists, but he's a plus 16. (This is really surprising to me because last year Dumolin didn't have clue as to what to do in his own end. He had 21 points, but he was only a plus 2. Somebody must have really been working with him this year because he has been solid in his own zone.) Harrington has no goals and 5 assists, but he's a plus 6. From what I've seen the plus/minus really shows how well these guys are playing defense and that might be why the Pens want to keep Pouliot down for a while longer.

 

[Burghfan]

And sorry on my comment to agreeing was thinking for Pouliot and Dea was due to injuries for the short term.

I am just not sure Dea is ready (due to lack of size) but I haven't watched him play.


As for Sill I see no reason to keep him around if Rust, Farnham or Payerl could do the same. The 12th forward on a team no reason to not try more than one option.

I'm not to sure about Dea being ready yet either. Something about him. I agree with you about getting rid of Sill and letting one of the Wilkes-Barre kids stay up.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Maybe you guys are right about Pouliot...

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Looking back, we should've drafted Filip Forsberg that year.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Colorado Avalanche vs Pittsburgh Penguins

Colorado Avalanche
Overall record: 10-13-7 (27 points)
Road record: 4-6-4
Last 10: 4-4-2
Streak: -1
GFA: 2.50
GAA: 3.20
PP%: 13.0%
PK%: 85.4%
Projected lineup: NHL Starting Goalies and Line Combinations | DailyFaceoff.com

Pittsburgh Penguins
Overall record: 20-6-4 (44 points)
Home record: 11-4-1
Last 10: 6-2-2
Streak: +1
GFA: 3.20
GAA: 2.30
PP%: 26.3%
PK%: 86.0%
Projected lineup: NHL Starting Goalies and Line Combinations | DailyFaceoff.com

Series notes
All-time: Avalanche lead series 37-32-2 with 7 ties
Last season: series tied 1-1
Last meeting: 4-6-2014 @ Pepsi Center, Pens won 3-2 in SO

Doob's take: hard to call this one, Avs have been struggling this year but we're injured. Both teams will be playing with backup goalies so maybe we could see a high offensive game. Doob picks the Pens to win 3-2.

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

We're sort of screwed if MAF has the mumps tho.

 

[scoutyjones2]

Pouliot can score, no doubt about that, but he just doesn't seem to have a commitment to play defense. Reminds me of how Gonchar was. Pouliot has six goals, 13 assists, but he is even in the plus/minus. Dumolin has 2 goals, 8 assists, but he's a plus 16. (This is really surprising to me because last year Dumolin didn't have clue as to what to do in his own end. He had 21 points, but he was only a plus 2. Somebody must have really been working with him this year because he has been solid in his own zone.) Harrington has no goals and 5 assists, but he's a plus 6. From what I've seen the plus/minus really shows how well these guys are playing defense and that might be why the Pens want to keep Pouliot down for a while longer.

LOL...this is exactly what I say about Maata being over valued and being an average D man. His second half last year and beginning of this year is exactly what you claim about Pouliot...but it's even worse, Maata isn't scoring since his first half of last year!

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

LOL...this is exactly what I say about Maata being over valued and being an average D man. His second half last year and beginning of this year is exactly what you claim about Pouliot...but it's even worse, Maata isn't scoring since his first half of last year!

True scouty, if Pouliot shouldn't be on the team then neither should Maatta.

 

[thedddd]

We're sort of screwed if MAF has the mumps tho.

That is the whole reason they got Greiss for. This team would be screwed if Zatkoff was the full time starter for an extended period of time and recalled Matt Murray or Eric Hartzell to backup.

 

[evolver115]

LOL...this is exactly what I say about Maata being over valued and being an average D man. His second half last year and beginning of this year is exactly what you claim about Pouliot...but it's even worse, Maata isn't scoring since his first half of last year!

Pouliot has yet to skate a shift in the NHL. Meanwhile, Maatta has already played 98 games in the NHL, and he's proven that he belongs at this level, despite his young age. Pouliot hasn't been given that opportunity, yet. The addition of his former junior coach as the new head coach of the Pens probably will help Pouliot, but the fact that Johnston doesn't have enough faith in him to call his name when the need is there speaks volumes to me about where Johnston views Pouliot's development. He's not ready for the NHL. I don't view that as a negative. He just doesn't have the experience.

I don't know how many of you dig into advanced stats like Corsi. If you do, you will find that Maatta is currently ranked third among his teammates at his position in Corsi% in 2014. He also finished last season ranked third among all d-men on the team. This stat alone points to why Maatta has been able to survive at this level. When Maatta has been on the ice over the past season and a third of this year, the Pens are more likely to be shooting pucks on net as opposed to be defending shots on goal at their own end. You can't parse this kind of data by just looking at +/-, it just doesn't give you a deep enough account of what is going on when a player is on the ice compared to what Corsi is capable of saying.

Pensburgh does a very good job of digging though advanced stats on the Pens. This is Maatta's season review from last season:

http://www.chatsports.com/pittsburgh-penguins/a/201314-Season-in-Review-Olli-Maatta-2-9978301

 

[element1286]

It's really not because Harrington and Doumolin are ahead of him on the depth chart, just that when Pouliot is up, he needs to be in the lineup every night for 17-20 minutes per night.

Being on the taxi squad/injury replacement isn't how you treat your top prospect, but is acceptable for lower prospects like Doumolin and Harrington.

 

[element1286]

LOL...this is exactly what I say about Maata being over valued and being an average D man. His second half last year and beginning of this year is exactly what you claim about Pouliot...but it's even worse, Maata isn't scoring since his first half of last year!

He's good at actually playing defense, and he's got tremendous hockey IQ, label him whatever you want, but being 20 and having those attributes is essentially unheard of.