Hartnell traded for Umberger and a 4th

[awaz]

Agreed with this, if he's a legit number one, then the Leafs would be a better team - a lot of his errors have caused issues for the Leafs - and he's making too much money - if he's going to make that money he needs to be an absolute stud and he's not that

Agree to disagree on Phaneuf.

But the leafs wouldn't be that much better in any case. Their team is garbage. Jvr and kessel are the only forwards worth anything. Reilly and gardiner are the only two defenders worth anything after dion. And bernier is ok.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Agree to disagree on Phaneuf.

But the leafs wouldn't be that much better in any case. Their team is garbage. Jvr and kessel are the only forwards worth anything. Reilly and gardiner are the only two defenders worth anything after dion. And bernier is ok.

If the Leafs were good with their cap management, they wouldn't have signed Phaneuf to an extension like that nor signed David Clarkson - they could have used that money in better ways - that's part of the point where paying Dion that type of money is ridiculous when it's clear they have other holes on the team - he's not going to make them any better/worse - he's just meh

 

[DoobeeDoobeeDoo]

Really sorry to see Hartnell go, really personified that Broad St. Bullies mentality, and was last of the Wolfpack Line (Hartnell, Richards, & Carter). Gonna be weird seeing Hartnell in a uniform other than the Flyers.

 

[awaz]

If the Leafs were good with their cap management, they wouldn't have signed Phaneuf to an extension like that nor signed David Clarkson - they could have used that money in better ways - that's part of the point where paying Dion that type of money is ridiculous when it's clear they have other holes on the team - he's not going to make them any better/worse - he's just meh

I not advocating the flyers go out and get him. His contract isn't what the flyers can afford. Let alone what the cost would be to trade for him.

I do think he'd be the flyers best defenseman though. And I don't think him, or his contract by itself, are what's hurting the leafs. They have shitty players at most positions, that's what's hurting the leafs.

 

[Retroram52]

I am wondering if Hextall has something in mind that would implement his template from his training with the Kings. Pretty strange that they are making this move at this time.

 

[wbon22]

I skipped through the posts so I am sorry if any of what i am about to say has already been posted:

Umberger is a Western Conference kind of player. Even at this point in his career he is quicker, stronger on his skates in tight and has more top speed than Hartnell. He may not have Scottyhockeygames sandpaper, but he is not shy about the banging. Hextall wanted him in LA. This is a "4 line" move. Umberger can center a line, kill penalties and play on the PP. He is no longer a long term top 6 forward but he can fill in. He is a legitimate floater forward who can be plugged in on all four lines from shift to shift.

I was thinking back to the Flyers cup teams when discussing this deal with a couple folks and the thing that made the cup team SO amazing..no, it was not the fighting, it was the 4 line scoring depth....especially the one year they didn't win the cup...in 75-76 they were amazing on all 4 lines. Adding Umberger allows the Flyers to start slotting together 4 lines that can check, skate and score. Umbie I am sure is not going to end up on the top line ... but he may allow either Schenn to play there or Read. Imagine Umbie on a 3rd line with Cooter and Raffle. They are all over 6'2 and can all check and play in the open ice. Umbie and Raffl give the line some O.

I still think that there is another story to be told on this trade and I think that Berube and Hextall are a large part of it. Only time will tell.

 

[Retroram52]

I was thinking along the same lines wbon22. Several Stanley Cups make an impression on a young GM and I pretty sure Hextall is remaking the Flyers into a facsimile of the Kings at least in principle.

 

[NDIrishGuy]

It definitely seems like I am in the minority of Philly fans. I appreciate the good years Hartnell had, but the past 2 years he has been quite bad. Umburger is nothing special, but cutting 2 years off that contract in essentially a lateral move is quite promising. The fact Hextall is evaluating players and telling guys they are done is the smart thing for the hockey team. It may not win friends, but it is smart, especially when it was clear that Hartnell was little more than a liability against good teams.

 

[Retroram52]

Again, NDIrish I was leaning toward that mindset. I think what Hextall has in mind is to make some changes to get us going toward that elite team that can get to the Cup nearly every year.

 

[SFNL]

Sucks to see RJ head to Philly... Played against him back in the High School days when he played for Plum in Pitt. This has to hurt him in a way.

 

[Cobiemonster]

It definitely seems like I am in the minority of Philly fans. I appreciate the good years Hartnell had, but the past 2 years he has been quite bad. Umburger is nothing special, but cutting 2 years off that contract in essentially a lateral move is quite promising. The fact Hextall is evaluating players and telling guys they are done is the smart thing for the hockey team. It may not win friends, but it is smart, especially when it was clear that Hartnell was little more than a liability against good teams.

I totally agree with this - I loved Scott Hartnell's personality and he had a few great seasons but he was inconsistent in other years, especially these last two years and he was one of the guys who struggled against the Rangers - I know players don't like it when they are told they aren't wanted anymore but if that's what it takes to turn the roster around and get it to the next level then so be it - it's nice to see the change so far, and I don't think Hexy is done, there's still things to do

 

[awaz]

Sucks to see RJ head to Philly... Played against him back in the High School days when he played for Plum in Pitt. This has to hurt him in a way.

He always thrashed the pens during his first go around in Philly. Hopefully that continues

 

[NDIrishGuy]

I totally agree with this - I loved Scott Hartnell's personality and he had a few great seasons but he was inconsistent in other years, especially these last two years and he was one of the guys who struggled against the Rangers - I know players don't like it when they are told they aren't wanted anymore but if that's what it takes to turn the roster around and get it to the next level then so be it - it's nice to see the change so far, and I don't think Hexy is done, there's still things to do

Yup, the comment I made to my friends when Holmgren was "promoted" was that there was only one Philly team left that hadn't embraced the advanced stats era. I think Hextall is going to do great things, and even I agree that hockey is the most difficult sport in which to use advanced stats. This is a positive though, I realize that Hartnell was an organization favorite but the fact they are making a good hockey decision (something I didn't think they did a lot of recently) gives me hope. The roster won't get there over night, but constant improvements like this helps.

 

[SFNL]

He always thrashed the pens during his first go around in Philly. Hopefully that continues

I would certainly not be surprised.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Yup, the comment I made to my friends when Holmgren was "promoted" was that there was only one Philly team left that hadn't embraced the advanced stats era. I think Hextall is going to do great things, and even I agree that hockey is the most difficult sport in which to use advanced stats. This is a positive though, I realize that Hartnell was an organization favorite but the fact they are making a good hockey decision (something I didn't think they did a lot of recently) gives me hope. The roster won't get there over night, but constant improvements like this helps.

I don't think it's a matter of using advanced stats to realize that a certain player isn't good enough for the team, I think it's more of an eye test - if you can see whether a player is fast or not, you can have a good idea whether he's a good fit on the team

A player like R.J. Umberger will most likely not put up the numbers Hartsy did but he does pretty well in other areas like the PK and being able to play wing and center, I think that makes a big difference because there will be games where you need to be good on faceoffs in order to win and if a guy gets kicked out of the faceoff, you need a second guy who can take faceoffs and R.J. does it well

 

[FlyerFinFan]

First of all I wish Harts the best! This was a good hockey trade due to the shorter contract and even though I loved what Harts brought to the table he was obviously losing a step. We have to also realize that his stats were a little inflated playing with G and the PP I'm sure RJ would look better in that spot too the last few years.

Moving forward a lot could still happen here but I'd expect RJ on the 3rd line Harts wouldn't fit there. Anyone from Schenn Read Simmonds a FA like Moulson could end up on G's wing. They'd all be improvements mainly due to speed. I can guarantee that Hexy will follow the kings blueprint it's all about the team concept and rolling 4 lines.

I'd also have to bet that Vinny will be moved. Laughton will make the team and they need to create space for him plus he has a better shot of adapting to the wing. Will be a fun ride!

 

[awaz]

the more time goes on, the more I think moulson would be a good add.

 

[FlyerFinFan]

Yes I think adding Moulson would allow them to keep 4 solid lines intact and move Vinny. That will give them mismatches against most teams especially if they ease Laughton into the lineup centering the 4th line although they may play him on the wing with Schenn and Simmonds to balance out that line which in the long run could be killer! Lots of options which is nice to see but they may focus on the D instead due to this. Don't forget about Akeson he may take another step up in training camp.

 

[JBM73]

I think I would agree with adding a Moulson or similar player. The Flyers have no sure-fire prospects coming up to fill a top 6 LW void. I'm not counting on Akeson, and I doubt the Flyers are, either. If he can step up and TAKE a spot, it should be considered a bonus.

 

[Cobiemonster]

How much do you think Matt Moulson would get in FA?