Maddux, Glavine, Thomas elected to HOF

[cezero]

...Not gonna lie, Max drives me nuts... I secretly hope he gets dealt (with a ride along guy)to your M's for Walker and Franklin/Ackley.

that makes two of us. one of the few deals i've heard involving walker that i actually LOVE. ackley/franklin are horse shit.

much better than the price deals i've hard bandied about invovling walker.

scherzer is going to contend for cy's for awhile, and that bastard boras knows a good pitcher's ballpark.

 

[cezero]

yogamoron

lol

 

[DragonfromTO]

You do realize that wins require your team to score runs and is not a very accurate measuring stick for a pitcher? Nolan was on alot of teams that were average at best. More often than not, down right bad. He has a career ERA of 3.19 and only 324 wins. Maddux (the guy with the 24" strike zone) has a career ERA of 3.16 and has 31 more wins. Why because he played on a team that consistantly won the division and had an offense. Take 1987 for example, he had a 2.76 ERA and an 8-16 record.

But hey if you don't consider Ks, ERA, and Opponents BA to be important stats for a pitcher, I gues you have that right.

One more stat for you, Nolan Ryan Career Batting Average against - .204. Greg Maddux - .234. But yeah, Ryan is overrated because he doesn't have the number of wins that Maddux has.

Nolan Ryan's teams' overall record was 2104-2048. They finished over .500 in 15 of 26 seasons. He played on 1 team in 26 years that lost 90+ games.

 

[broncosmitty]

that makes two of us. one of the few deals i've heard involving walker that i actually LOVE. ackley/franklin are horse shit.

much better than the price deals i've hard bandied about invovling walker.

scherzer is going to contend for cy's for awhile, and that bastard boras knows a good pitcher's ballpark.

I'll take the one season he contended and won. Not looking for future Craig Biggios out of Franklin/Ackley. Just SafeCo seems like a long term place that would make sense for Scherzer/Boras. (Detroit has worked well for Boras in the past.) And mid season rentals are worth a lot more if it makes sense long term, if that makes sense.

 

[broncosmitty]

Speaking of Craig Biggio.......... Ten years in, he had a helluva '97 season.

 

[hatcher3333]

Random trivia... I have no idea... How many time have teammates been inducted together?

Mantle and Ford in the mid 70's

 

[navamind]

Scouting reports on Maddux, Glavine, Thomas

"Thomas is a .250 hitter tops." Oops.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Very debatable that the pitching was less watered down in the '70s and '80s, as you can conversely argue that the talent pool got bigger in the past 20 or so years....but that's another story.

I don't see how Ryan was the best pitcher of his generation over Seaver (whose career overlapped by 20 years with Ryan's). Ryan allowed less hits and struck out more batters, but it ends there.

An interesting tidbit about Seaver and Ryan's teams:
Ryan had a .525 win %, and the teams he played on had a .507 win %
Seaver had a .603 win %, and the teams he played on had a .501 win %

It's quite telling, especially over a 20+ year career where things might tend to even out a bit. When Ryan won, he was dominant, but when he lost, he tended not to pitch well. He was a guy who'd go 9 shutout innings one start, then go 5 innings giving 5 runs the next.

\


Which is why i consider QS% the 4th best pitching stat(after innings,ERA,WHIP)... QS is the only stat i can think of that measures consistency, and consistency throughout a career or season is of great importance... And it strengthens the other stats...

 

[steveringo]

\


Which is why i consider QS% the 4th best pitching stat(after innings,ERA,WHIP)... QS is the only stat i can think of that measures consistency, and consistency throughout a career or season is of great importance... And it strengthens the other stats...

I was actually curious to see how total career QS stacked up, but I could not find it. BR doesn't have it. MLB doesn't have it... Can you forward me a link to any site that tracks QS?

I could only find the top ten in QS%:

Quality start - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tom Seaver (454 of 647, 70.2%)
Mel Stottlemyre (247 of 356, 69.4%)
Adam Wainwright (115 of 167, 68.8%)
Bob Gibson (328 of 482, 68%)
Josh Johnson (103 of 152, 67.7%)
Roy Oswalt (225 of 336, 67%)
Randy Johnson (403 of 603, 66.8%)
Jered Weaver (143 of 214, 66.8%)
Brandon Webb (132 of 198, 66.7%)
Pedro Martinez (273 of 409, 66.7%)


But, while I was looking, I found this:
BBTF's Newsblog Discussion :: Henneman: MLB Should Abolish Quality Start From Statistics

Ouch.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I was actually curious to see how total career QS stacked up, but I could not find it. BR doesn't have it. MLB doesn't have it... Can you forward me a link to any site that tracks QS?

I could only find the top ten in QS%:

Quality start - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tom Seaver (454 of 647, 70.2%)
Mel Stottlemyre (247 of 356, 69.4%)
Adam Wainwright (115 of 167, 68.8%)
Bob Gibson (328 of 482, 68%)
Josh Johnson (103 of 152, 67.7%)
Roy Oswalt (225 of 336, 67%)
Randy Johnson (403 of 603, 66.8%)
Jered Weaver (143 of 214, 66.8%)
Brandon Webb (132 of 198, 66.7%)
Pedro Martinez (273 of 409, 66.7%)


But, while I was looking, I found this:
BBTF's Newsblog Discussion :: Henneman: MLB Should Abolish Quality Start From Statistics

Ouch.

Unfortunately with its unpopularity it is hard to find... but i am someone who likes doing my own calculations, so i manually do it... I know it is flawed, and people get too fixated on the 4.5 ERA being a QS, but they dont realize that that is not the point of the stat at all... It is all about consistancy... I wish i could send you a link, but i dont think there is one... Not even Baseball references records the leaders...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I was actually curious to see how total career QS stacked up, but I could not find it. BR doesn't have it. MLB doesn't have it... Can you forward me a link to any site that tracks QS?

I could only find the top ten in QS%:

Quality start - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tom Seaver (454 of 647, 70.2%)
Mel Stottlemyre (247 of 356, 69.4%)
Adam Wainwright (115 of 167, 68.8%)
Bob Gibson (328 of 482, 68%)
Josh Johnson (103 of 152, 67.7%)
Roy Oswalt (225 of 336, 67%)
Randy Johnson (403 of 603, 66.8%)
Jered Weaver (143 of 214, 66.8%)
Brandon Webb (132 of 198, 66.7%)
Pedro Martinez (273 of 409, 66.7%)


But, while I was looking, I found this:
BBTF's Newsblog Discussion :: Henneman: MLB Should Abolish Quality Start From Statistics

Ouch.

I just wrote to Baseball references... I doubt that it will change anything, but i think it is embarassing that they dont have the stat in the leader section... as it is a very important stat... Even if you are a hater, it really is the best stat to show consistancy...

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

The idea that Mo is overrated is as ludicrous as not voting for Maddux.

I think he might be the single most overrated athlete on the planet.

He was an excellent closer and possibly the best but people talk about him like he was among the best players in the league when he just wasn't. He wasn't anywhere near the best players in the league. No reliever ever will be.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I think he might be the single most overrated athlete on the planet.

He was an excellent closer and possibly the best but people talk about him like he was among the best players in the league when he just wasn't. He wasn't anywhere near the best players in the league. No reliever ever will be.

Agree to disagree here... The Yankees would not have been that Great without Mo... He was the most important player for the team during the WS runs...

 

[Wazmankg]

Trying to be fair here (so I won't mention Trammel). If Bonds and Clemens were using PED's and having great success, don't you think that just about every play was? Biggio not elected after 3 years. Will someone explain that to me. And who the #$&^ left Maddux off their ballot and why? I don't understand. Ozzie Smith got in with 97.1% a .262 hitter with 28 HR's.

Ozzie was the best fielder ever at the most demanding and important fielding position. He's in for the same reason Brooks Robinson is in. You can agree or disagree about the importance of defense when evaluating these guys but there it is.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

It's not a witch hunt, in fact I'd say it's the exact opposite. Overwhelming evidence is dismissed as rumor.

What do you consider overwhelming evidence?

I mean I'm not so naive that I don't believe many of these sluggers used PEDs but almost none of them have actually failed a drug test nor have they been penalized by MLB. I think overall more pitchers have been suspended for PED use then hitters. At least that's how it was, it might be different now.

At the end of the day the era was what the era was. If it was rife with steroid use then it was rife with steroid use.

 

[Wazmankg]

I wonder what kind of shit head excuse they will give for not making Mariano Riveria a unanimous selection (he was on the same team as A-Rod)

I think we should get over the outrage over someone not getting 100% of the vote. Nobody ever has and probably nobody ever will. I think it's ridiculous that there are voters who didn't vote for Ruth, Williams, Mays or whomever but it's not that big of a deal. More important is who gets in who shouldn't and who doesn't that should.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

I'd agree with that. There are just so many people who think Ryan's a top 5-10 pitcher of all time (especially with the casual fans).

Nolan Ryan was overrated for so long that I think he's actually underrated now.

 

[Wazmankg]

Maddux had 72 ER in the postseason. 97 runs allowed overall. That is a lot.

He pitched in 35 post season games. 72 ER in 35 games is not a lot. You should be embarrassed to post that as a standalone stat as if it's significant.

 

[Lemon Harang Pie]

Agree to disagree here... The Yankees would not have been that Great without Mo... He was the most important player for the team during the WS runs...

That might be the single most ridiculous thing I have ever read on the internet.

He pitched 1 inning and only when his team handed him a lead in the 9th inning. 95% of teams going into the 9th inning with a lead go on to win that game. Yankee fans are just ridiculous when it comes to Mariano Rivera and Derek Jeter.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

That might be the single most ridiculous thing I have ever read on the internet.

He pitched 1 inning and only when his team handed him a lead in the 9th inning. 95% of teams going into the 9th inning with a lead go on to win that game. Yankee fans are just ridiculous when it comes to Mariano Rivera and Derek Jeter.

Having a shutout closer is a great asset... Just ask atlanta fans how they like craig kimbrel... and he is still nowhere near Mo was...