The PAC12 THREAD v.2

[socaljim242]

Oregon through the past decade always got decent classes. Nothing to write home about.

The program started taking strides with recruitment of players that fit a certain football philosophy and style.

Now with the new facilities and more so a handful of years in a row being a bcs caliber team, annual threat to win the PAC, and a national stage NC contender, the Ducks have started landing some big time recruits like never before. Oregon is getting players consistently now that they never would have gotten before.

A top 20 class for the Ducks is very big. From there it is all about figuring out how to put themselves on an equal playing field with the perrenial top 10 teams and competing with them by scheming.

An ever evolving process for sure for a team with Oregon's history or like y'all like to say lack thereof.

But doesn't oregon have to change their scheming? it's been shown that power teams can slow them down. Are they recruiting bigger players for the lines and therefore can't play a breakneck speeds?

 

[trojanfan12]

Sark is not a bad coach. He recruits well. He's a fantastic O coordinator. He walked into a difficult situation at UW with a rebuild from scratch. I think the rebuild took to long, but a lot of that had to do with him being a first time head coach. He's probably learned a lot from those rookie mistakes and USC will benefit from that.

The last two years had a lot more positives and than negatives once he cleared out house on the D side of the coaching, and brought in Wilcox, the team really started to look like a real balanced team that could play PAC O and D.

I think his main dig is that his teams play too undisciplined on the field. Too many stupid penalties that can make the difference between a W and L. It's possible given the level of talent USC will have on it's roster that it will be enough to overcome Sark's laid back approach.


But from out of the gate during the 2014 spring practices, all the UW players were mentioning how different practices where with Petersens crew. He had them running fundamental drills over and over again that Sark wouldn't incorporate into their practices.

I also think Sark has a tendency to over complicate the offense vs. the talent level and capabilities of the roster. That also triggered dumb penalties and put extra weight on Price's shoulders that he wasn't able to handle.

Cooler heads prevailed with most Husky fans over Sark's exit the way it happened as we've moved through 2014. Especially with the fact we landed Petersen. Many believe in the longterm we got the better end of the deal. But Petersen still has plenty to prove from now on.

USC got the kind of coach that's the best fit for their culture.
UW got the kind of coach that's the best fit for their culture.

It all worked out pretty well.

The floodgates open for recruiting with USC from now on. The monkey is off their backs. I'm sure Sark will be landing Top10 classes. The USC recruiting advantage is what it is. But other PAC schools have rolled out some fabulous facilities upgrades during USC's sanctions and the talent level at coaching in this conference is at an all time high. UW, Oregon, UCLA, Stanford,...they will all be bringing in high quality classes as well each year. Both Zona schools are recruiting much better than the previous coaches did.

USC's facing a very different PAC post sanctions than it did before them.

The one thing that used to drive me batshit crazy during the Pete Carroll era was the dumb penalties. It is my one prevailing criticism of Pete. I loved the energy, the fun, etc., but those penalties used to piss me off no end.

Fortunately, we always had so much talent, that it rarely cost us. I am hopeful that Sark has learned/will learn from that and cut down on those penalties. This is a different 12PAC than the one Pete coached in.

In this current 12PAC, with Oregon, Stanford and UCLA all being top 10 caliber teams, with teams like UW and ASU on the rise and teams like Arizona and Oregon St. capable of upsetting anyone in the conference, those types of penalties can be a lot more costly, even when we are back to normal talent levels.

 

[socaljim242]

Yes, the recruiting rankings should be taken for what they are at this point. Simply verbals.

Also, most of these sites give points per recruit. Teams like Boston College are in the top 20 simply because of quantity. 23 verbals already. So once the other schools start getting their numbers up it will even out. Here on the west coast for the most part, our schools aren't in a rush to get 20+ vebs 8 months before LOI day.

A better way to look at the rankings is the star average. Alabama is usually at the top with USC usually near the top even with limited numbers. I read somewhere that if you look back at teams that had runs (Miami, USC, Florida and now alabama) they had recruiting classes with no less than. 3.5 averages and closer to 3.6 starting a few years before their runs.

 

[socaljim242]

The one thing that used to drive me batshit crazy during the Pete Carroll era was the dumb penalties. It is my one prevailing criticism of Pete. I loved the energy, the fun, etc., but those penalties used to piss me off no end.

Fortunately, we always had so much talent, that it rarely cost us. I am hopeful that Sark has learned/will learn from that and cut down on those penalties. This is a different 12PAC than the one Pete coached in.

In this current 12PAC, with Oregon, Stanford and UCLA all being top 10 caliber teams, with teams like UW and ASU on the rise and teams like Arizona and Oregon St. capable of upsetting anyone in the conference, those types of penalties can be a lot more costly, even when we are back to normal talent levels.

Seattle was the most penalized team in the NFL last year. maybe it's just what you get when you play aggressive.
Remember that game against Stanford at home a few years back when our DB hit the WR so hard on what should have been the nail in the coffin? They flagged him for the hit even though it was shoulder to chest. Stanford got the ball back and sent the game into overtime where they eventually won.

 

[trojanfan12]

It's also early to have accurate conf based recruit class rankings because as an example, the Zona schools are already in double digits with the amount of players they have verbals from, while most other PAC schools have less than 10 players committed. Zona will not end up #3 by January. November is when the picture starts getting clearer on what kind of class the schools are going to have. But in the meantime, it is important right now to be landing those QBs and critical gets at positions that need depth.

I pay very little attention to recruiting class rankings this early in the process. Waaaay too many things can and will change before we get to the end of the upcoming season and the next signing day.

1 loss or win can flip a recruit. Part of the reason Lane Kiffin was fired so quickly after the ASU loss last season was because several recruits either flat out de-committed or were thought to be wavering in their commitment. Fortunately, we were able to put together a solid enough season that Sark was able to save much of that class and even improve on it when we got to signing day.

 

[trojanfan12]

Seattle was the most penalized team in the NFL last year. maybe it's just what you get when you play aggressive.
Remember that game against Stanford at home a few years back when our DB hit the WR so hard on what should have been the nail in the coffin? They flagged him for the hit even though it was shoulder to chest. Stanford got the ball back and sent the game into overtime where they eventually won.

Yeah, some of the penalties at USC were just like some of the one's Seattle got. When you play a very aggressive style, those types of penalties are pretty much unavoidable, especially with the rule changes.

Remember that hit Maualuga put on UCLA's QB? That would be a penalty today.

I'm mainly talking about the dumb penalties that we used to see. Things like excessive celebration, offsides, false starts and some late hits here and there. That's the crap that drove me nuts.

 

[socaljim242]

Yeah, some of the penalties at USC were just like some of the one's Seattle got. When you play a very aggressive style, those types of penalties are pretty much unavoidable, especially with the rule changes.

Remember that hit Maualuga put on UCLA's QB? That would be a penalty today.

I'm mainly talking about the dumb penalties that we used to see. Things like excessive celebration, offsides, false starts and some late hits here and there. That's the crap that drove me nuts.

Yeah it drove me nuts too especially when it gave the other team some new life.

 

[WhiteMamba]

A better way to look at the rankings is the star average. Alabama is usually at the top with USC usually near the top even with limited numbers. I read somewhere that if you look back at teams that had runs (Miami, USC, Florida and now alabama) they had recruiting classes with no less than. 3.5 averages and closer to 3.6 starting a few years before their runs.

Yes exactly

 

[HammerDown]

 

[WhiteMamba]

But doesn't oregon have to change their scheming? it's been shown that power teams can slow them down. Are they recruiting bigger players for the lines and therefore can't play a breakneck speeds?

Not neccisarily. Remember, Oregon dominated The same type of Stanford team in 2010 and 2011. And then were returned the favor. So the point is, the scheming can remain.

The change will come in the form of the other option you mentioned. The type of player and the conditioning on both sides of the line.

A fresh face at Def coord may help also. The team is putting a huge emphasis on bulking up the front 7 and o-line.

The 3-4 vs Stanford was a disaster that proved it would not stop that pound the ball type of offense. We all assume the talk behind the scenes here of Don Pellum looking to combat that has us hopeful. We shall see.

The same year Stanford beat Oregon 17-14 in Ot Oregon manhandled a similar team in K State with Colon Klein and his smash mouth offense. Their defense brought a similar approach to that of Stanford, but just didn't have those superior athletes that could win those battles vs Oregonn in the trenches like Stanford did the last two years.

Hats off to the Cardinal players 1st and for most for being the better football players when playing the Ducks the last two seasons.

 

[Olyduck]

1 USC
2 Oregon
3 Arizona
4 UCLA
5 ASU
6 WSU
7 Stanford
8 Cal
9 Washington
10 Utah
11 Oregon State
12 Colorado

Cal pulling down the 8th and 12th class. what does that average out to?

 

[Olyduck]

But doesn't oregon have to change their scheming? it's been shown that power teams can slow them down. Are they recruiting bigger players for the lines and therefore can't play a breakneck speeds?

Its been shown tha some power teams can slow them down. not all. it also has shown that oregon can lose to teams that have other strengths as well like a mobile QB who has the best game of his carreer. USC was hardly a power team when they beat Oregon either.

 

[WhiteMamba]

Cal pulling down the 8th and 12th class. what does that average out to?

Must have been my sausage fingers on the iPhone with a side of autocorrect. I remember typing Colorado.

That is my story and I am sticking to it. Fixing now.

 

[WhiteMamba]

If you noticed I edited your posts, it was just the editing of where y'all quoted me as I made an error.

*changed 12 to Colorado

 

[socaljim242]

Its been shown tha some power teams can slow them down. not all. it also has shown that oregon can lose to teams that have other strengths as well like a mobile QB who has the best game of his carreer. USC was hardly a power team when they beat Oregon either.

USc had an O line that allowed Barkley to go nuts with woods and lee.

 

[trojanfan12]

Okay guys. The PAC 12 Thread v.3 is officially up. See ya there.

 

[Olyduck]

USc had an O line that allowed Barkley to go nuts with woods and lee.

But coulndt open up the run game and oregon had him scrambling a lot of the game too.

 

[WhiteMamba]

Sheer athleticism of those SC WRs is the primary reason why Troj beat Oregon in 2011.

 

[963BUSC]

USc had an O line that allowed Barkley to go nuts with woods and lee.

But coulndt open up the run game and oregon had him scrambling a lot of the game too.

I wouldn't classify any of the O-Lines Barkley had as great. They had some great moments but by and large I think that the O-Line was neglected leading up to the sanctions and then well there were the sanctions.

 

[963BUSC]

Sheer athleticism of those SC WRs is the primary reason why Troj beat Oregon in 2011.

USC earned the victory but Oregon's schedule around that game didn't do them any favors either.

W​

11-05-2011​

34​

Washington​

17​

Seattle, WA​

​

W​

11-12-2011​

53​

Stanford (CA)​

30​

Stanford, CA​

​

L​

11-19-2011​

35​

Southern California​

38​

Eugene, OR​

​

W​

11-26-2011​

49​

Oregon St.​

21​

Eugene, OR​