NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[dtgold88]

I mean- in large part that is it--- their are certain owners that would fight it but obviously the majority would be in favor of it.

Also- just how the MLB operates makes it difficult as well considering how much local TV factors into each individual teams profits - which is totally different than the NFL, and still significantly different than the NBA. NBA and NFL have much more national TV deals and more equal split of revenue- though their are still higher revenue teams in the NBA and NFL but def. not nearly as stark a difference as in MLB.

for instance- there is a big difference in revenue between the Lakers and Hornets--- without a doubt- but there is a much bigger difference between the Pirates and Dodgers.

For instance- I think I saw the last Dodgers TV deal they signed in 2013 is for 25 years- and averages about 335 million per year (obviously more in the later years- less in the earlier years- I am sure its weighted)---- while the Guardians annual TV revenue right now is 55 million.

Exactly....and why many teams have no interest in a cap as they want to spend to their advantage.

Hell, as for our team, we could make it work fine if we would just get an owner with a will to win who would spend league average. You think if Gilbert owned this team things would not be different?

 

[dtgold88]

Baseball needs a floor much more than it needs a cap. Put together a 125 million a year payroll or sell your team.

I can definitely agree if an owner does not want to win then sell or don't buy. Better ways to make yearly income than a sports team.

Ripping it down to the shrubs in a contending window is just shameful.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Baseball needs a floor much more than it needs a cap. Put together a 125 million a year payroll or sell your team.

hmmm see this is tough- in principal I agree- but at times- doing what the Astros did, and the Orioles did is smart when you are at the end of the line with a team.

the Astros stripped it to the bone before their run. More recently the Orioles stripped it to the bone and now have a very good team and a thriving farm system.

Realistically- I think a more punitive luxury tax and stepped up revenue sharing would be the best actions to take- not a solution but might close the gap a little bit.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Baseball needs a floor much more than it needs a cap. Put together a 125 million a year payroll or sell your team.

Agree 100%

 

[WiggyRuss]

Exactly....and why many teams have no interest in a cap as they want to spend to their advantage.

Hell, as for our team, we could make it work fine if we would just get an owner with a will to win who would spend league average. You think if Gilbert owned this team things would not be different?

It might be a little different. I do not think Gilbert is against running deficits- I know he has in certain years. But its hard to make up a year after year 150-250 million disparity in TV money. i think at the height of spending Gilbert was running 30-40M dollar deficits.

To get the Guardians to a 150-170M payroll hed probably have to run 50+ million dollar deficits every single year which is not realistic.

 

[dtgold88]

hmmm see this is tough- in principal I agree- but at times- doing what the Astros did, and the Orioles did is smart when you are at the end of the line with a team.

the Astros stripped it to the bone before their run. More recently the Orioles stripped it to the bone and now have a very good team and a thriving farm system.

Realistically- I think a more punitive luxury tax and stepped up revenue sharing would be the best actions to take- not a solution but might close the gap a little bit.

I could see that as well as a floor. could be lower than $125 mil. Maybe even a lot lower.

But again when it comes to teams like ours it's just shameful to strip it down when in a contending window. I get not signing guys to megadeals and trading before needed.......but there are players over the last half decade or so we could have gone after, continued to be legit contenders and still stayed at league average in payroll. guys like Castellanos, Nelson Cruz, Brantley, Ozuna come to mind.

 

[dtgold88]

It might be a little different. I do not think Gilbert is against running deficits- I know he has in certain years. But its hard to make up a year after year 150-250 million disparity in TV money. i think at the height of spending Gilbert was running 30-40M dollar deficits.

To get the Guardians to a 150-170M payroll hed probably have to run 50+ million dollar deficits every single year which is not realistic.

agree 100%. He would not spend like NY or LA but no way he wouldn't allow league average spending when in a contending window. Maybe even more if needed.

Pretty sure the couple years we spent league avg. I saw in Forbes we still made money (I'll look). also likely if Gilbert was owner and fans could see he was doing whatever he can attendance would go up as well. Though can only go up so much if they still took all the seats away like Dolan has done.

 

[msgkings322]

I can definitely agree if an owner does not want to win then sell or don't buy. Better ways to make yearly income than a sports team.

But almost no better way to grow an asset. Team values do nothing but skyrocket.

Ripping it down to the shrubs in a contending window is just shameful.

True dat

 

[WiggyRuss]

I could see that as well as a floor. could be lower than $125 mil. Maybe even a lot lower.

But again when it comes to teams like ours it's just shameful to strip it down when in a contending window. I get not signing guys to megadeals and trading before needed.......but there are players over the last half decade or so we could have gone after, continued to be legit contenders and still stayed at league average in payroll. guys like Castellanos, Nelson Cruz, Brantley, Ozuna come to mind.

Right- however, i think their internal analysis has shown that most free agents do not work out. Even when they have spent on guys where they have gotten favorable reviews at the time- from Bell, Encarnacion, Swisher, Bourn, etc....those more often than not fail.

All of those guys you mentioned had good years but I do not think one has quote, unquote- "lived up to his contract".

the Guardians need to figure out what is wrong with their hitting player development. It seems that are starting to figure it out- more recently guys have been successful at the majors and they have some very good hitting prospects at the top end of the minors right now.

They need to get some big hits out of Rocchio, DeLateur, Manzardo, Valera- and I actually think they will.

 

[dtgold88]

But almost no better way to grow an asset. Team values do nothing but skyrocket.

True dat

No doubt and if you want to have an asset that grows like crazy a sports team is a way to do it for sure......but why do that if no will to win?

 

[Mecca]

@Stakesarehigh @Shanemansj13 @Heatles84 @trojanfan12

I got Chaos taking the strap * mind out of the gutter * from Leon tomorrow.

 

[trojanfan12]

Happen to agree.....I don't like the system but no issue with teams who use it to their advantage.

Heard something interesting this morning. It said that the deferral idea came from Ohtani, not the Dodgers. Said he wanted to make sure the Dodgers would be able to add necessary pieces for a WS.

Also, he apparently has an opt out that can only be used if the owner or Andrew Friedman leave. Apparently that was also requested by him.

 

[dtgold88]

Right- however, i think their internal analysis has shown that most free agents do not work out. Even when they have spent on guys where they have gotten favorable reviews at the time- from Bell, Encarnacion, Swisher, Bourn, etc....those more often than not fail.

All of those guys you mentioned had good years but I do not think one has quote, unquote- "lived up to his contract".

the Guardians need to figure out what is wrong with their hitting player development. It seems that are starting to figure it out- more recently guys have been successful at the majors and they have some very good hitting prospects at the top end of the minors right now.

They need to get some big hits out of Rocchio, DeLateur, Manzardo, Valera- and I actually think they will.

I don't think many thought much of the swisher deal...adding Bourn a little later was huge. Not many though much of Bell either. It was something, but would not have moved the needle like the guys I mentioned.

I can agree EE was a huge deal at the time and he did help a ton in a couple contending years.....needed to do a little more though.

For sure we need to improve on the hitting like we have the pitching. If Gonzalez goes on to play well in NY will be another black eye on the FO (who for the most part has been elite considering ownership).

 

[msgkings322]

No doubt and if you want to have an asset that grows like crazy a sports team is a way to do it for sure......but why do that if no will to win?

Winning money is a pretty good win

 

[msgkings322]

Heard something interesting this morning. It said that the deferral idea came from Ohtani, not the Dodgers. Said he wanted to make sure the Dodgers would be able to add necessary pieces for a WS.

Also, he apparently has an opt out that can only be used if the owner or Andrew Friedman leave. Apparently that was also requested by him.

I posted previously not only did he and his team come up with the deal structure, they basically went to 5 teams with the same idea and asked if they would do it. They all said yes so he picked the one he wanted most.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I posted previously not only did he and his team come up with the deal structure, they basically went to 5 teams with the same idea and asked if they would do it. They all said yes so he picked the one he wanted most.

I liked the Giants signing of the Korean hitter. I thought his deal was fairly reasonable as well and I think he will be better than Yoshida on the Red Sox.

giants have money just no one has really wanted to take it. I know they are in on Yamamoto big time- not sure if they will pull it off.

 

[dtgold88]

Winning money is a pretty good win

sure.....but, again, if you want year to year winning the sports team is not the best way to do it. As you mention, that comes when you sell.

I mean, he bought the team so obviously he can do whatever he wants. Just prefer the guy who owns a team I cheer for be like Gilbert who has an obscene will to win (even moderate would be OK).

Thought the new owner (Blitzer) might change things but not so sure.

 

[msgkings322]

I liked the Giants signing of the Korean hitter. I thought his deal was fairly reasonable as well and I think he will be better than Yoshida on the Red Sox.

He'll be a nice leadoff hitter and CFer with some speed and OBP but not a star or anything like that

giants have money just no one has really wanted to take it. I know they are in on Yamamoto big time- not sure if they will pull it off.

Only chance they have to sign FAs are pitchers but I think he goes to a NY team

They need to go all in on pitching and defense and not try to bring in sluggers, they simply won't play there. That's how they won their titles anyway.

 

[trojanfan12]

I posted previously not only did he and his team come up with the deal structure, they basically went to 5 teams with the same idea and asked if they would do it. They all said yes so he picked the one he wanted most.

Saw that...but forgot until I read this post. lol

 

[DJ]

Suh to the Browns?

Yes or no, @Shanemansj13, @dtgold88, @Stakesarehigh?