Kawhi wants out of San Antonio

[flyerhawk]

If the Cavs can somehow get him, they will have a competitive chance against anyone

Sure but the Cavs are missing the sort of assets that would likely entice the Spurs.

 

[CitySushi]

You kinda came in a little late to the discussion. One Celtic fan started this off by arguing that the Celtics were the favorites to win it all next year. Then another came in saying that they are serious title challengers to dethrone the Warriors. That kinda set the table.

Of course the Celtics can beat the Warriors. So can the Rockets. So can the Sixers. So can whatever team Lebron goes to. But without a change in any of their rosters, it isn't very likely.

Yeah I definitely came in late and my posts may not have been as defensive if I understood the place they were coming from. I was adding on to others posts without understanding where the discussion stemmed from.

 

[Tharvot]

Sure but the Cavs are missing the sort of assets that would likely entice the Spurs.

I know. A man can dream tho.

Heard the team with the best possible asset package is the Celtics...just what they need to add to the team, another allstar.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah I definitely came in late and my posts may not have been as defensive if I understood the place they were coming from. I was adding on to others posts without understanding where the discussion stemmed from.

When it is all said and done, history tells you that if you don't have an MVP level player, you aren't going to win too many championships.

It is possible that the Celtics are the exception to the rule but it is really tough to do. Danny Ainge knows that as well as anyone which is why he is trying to get an MVP level player.

 

[tlance]

Collectively, as in the overall average sum of their parts. The Warriors have 3 elite scorers, and 2 who are basically after thoughts most games.

I mean, it's just my opinion that I believe that the Celtics if healthy as constructed would give the Warriors a real challenge. What I see is potential areas where the Celtics could exploit the Warriors. The Warriors are not invulnerable. But I feel like most around here just want to dismiss it as "nah, that won't happen".

Here is the thing.

Draymond Green shot like garbage in this year's playoffs.

IF Dray goes back to shooting like he did in 2016 and 2017, the Warriors are damn near unbeatable. He is never going to be a great shooter, but he has to make just enough so that teams think twice about leaving him. He has been able to do that in the past. This season, he wasn't able to.

If Draymond is able to take about 5 of those shots per game, and make about 2, that is when the Warrior offense hits another gear. Defenders have to close out in him, opening the driving lanes and enabling him to use all his playmaking skills.

Dray's offense is the key to the death lineup.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The problem with Boston and Kawhi is money.

No team can carry 4 max players.

Boston already has Horford on a max, Hayward on a max, and Kyrie on a max.

Kyrie or Hayward or Horford would HAVE to go out in a deal.

Not only that- but they have to be cognizant of the fact that at some point Brown, Rozier, and Tatum will be up for new contracts. No time soon for Tatum- but as i said- 4 max guys is just not feasible under the current CBA.

Its why if Boston does step up and make an offer- Kyrie or Horford basically HAVE to be in the deal.

for the Sixers its not much of an issue since they dont have guys on those deals yet- and only Simmons and Embiid will garner those type of deals. They still have a slot for a 3rd max guy.


its basically why the Warriors are not operating on borrowed time.....having 4 max guys is practically impossible unless they take significant discounts. A "max" is roughly 30-35% of the cap depending on status, years in the league, whether yo uare a "Rose Rule" guy etc.....

you cant have 4 guys making 30%-35% of the cap- PLUS the rest of your team is whawt it comes down to.

 

[Gman]

Who do the Celtics have that can stop KD?

As has been stated... almost nobody "stops" KD... so I'm tempted to ask what kind of question is this?

That aside: the C's are the best defensive team in the NBA... and they do it not only with great individual defenders (they have more than a few)... but with a team defensive concept and game plan.

Who would likely get the call against KD? A mix of Brown, Morris, Tatum and Ojeleye... after that, there would almost certainly be a game plan... to either try to limit KD or let him get his with as much resistance as possible.

Yes but instead of having guys like Tucker and Capela providing stout defense, they are going to have a bunch of guys that are more offensive minded. It is guys like Baynes, Morris, and Smart that provided the defensive backbone to the Celtics this year.

I could certainly be wrong and that starting 5 could play great defense but I remain skeptical.

The C's still have Horford and Brown... 2 top notch individual defenders... in that starting line up. Tatum and Hayward aren't slouches, either... and they're versatile.

This isn't theory, btw... these 4 are all proven "not bad at all" NBA defenders... collectively there is a great amount of versatility too... I can't see why you're so "skeptical"...

Kyrie is the weakest link... but even he showed last season that when motivated he is not a bad defender.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

The problem with Boston and Kawhi is money.

No team can carry 4 max players.

Boston already has Horford on a max, Hayward on a max, and Kyrie on a max.

Kyrie or Hayward or Horford would HAVE to go out in a deal.

Not only that- but they have to be cognizant of the fact that at some point Brown, Rozier, and Tatum will be up for new contracts. No time soon for Tatum- but as i said- 4 max guys is just not feasible under the current CBA.

Its why if Boston does step up and make an offer- Kyrie or Horford basically HAVE to be in the deal.

for the Sixers its not much of an issue since they dont have guys on those deals yet- and only Simmons and Embiid will garner those type of deals. They still have a slot for a 3rd max guy.


its basically why the Warriors are not operating on borrowed time.....having 4 max guys is practically impossible unless they take significant discounts. A "max" is roughly 30-35% of the cap depending on status, years in the league, whether yo uare a "Rose Rule" guy etc.....

you cant have 4 guys making 30%-35% of the cap- PLUS the rest of your team is whawt it comes down to.

Boston, would have the means to give the Spurs back players of good value without having to deal with a team in their conference - so giving up a quality player - teaming Leonard with Kyrie Irving and Boston could be one hell of a team

 

[flyerhawk]

As has been stated... almost nobody "stops" KD... so I'm tempted to ask what kind of question is this?

That aside: the C's are the best defensive team in the NBA... and they do it not only with great individual defenders (they have more than a few)... but with a team defensive concept and game plan.

Who would likely get the call against KD? A mix of Brown, Morris, Tatum and Ojeleye... after that, there would almost certainly be a game plan... to either try to limit KD or let him get his with as much resistance as possible.

The C's still have Horford and Brown... 2 top notch individual defenders... in that starting line up. Tatum and Hayward aren't slouches, either... and they're versatile.

This isn't theory, btw... these 4 are all proven "not bad at all" NBA defenders... collectively there is a great amount of versatility too... I can't see why you're so "skeptical"...

Kyrie is the weakest link... but even he showed last season that when motivated he is not a bad defender.

But this is the issue here. The Celtics can put Morris or Ojeleye out there but that means one of Brown, Tatum, Hayward would have to sit.

I'm skeptical that the Celtics can stop the Warriors in the playoffs since no one really has in 4 years without injuries and suspensions getting involved.

 

[Gman]

When it is all said and done, history tells you that if you don't have an MVP level player, you aren't going to win too many championships.

The argument proffered is that 4 to 5 players on the floor at a time who are legitimate triple threats can match the productivity of one offensive focal point...

... frankly, you don't seem to have a substantive counterpoint to this claim beyond falling back on on the same time tested wisdom that you started with... 'you need an elite player to win.'

It's a shame the C's choked away game 7 vs the Cav's. The team offensive strategy didn't fail... rather, young guys like Brown and Rozier tightened up in the big moment and missed shot after shot after shot. Getting Irving and Hayward back gives them steadiness and even the one man offense (Kyrie) that is sometimes great to fall back on.

It is possible that the Celtics are the exception to the rule but it is really tough to do. Danny Ainge knows that as well as anyone which is why he is trying to get an MVP level player.

Of course Ainge is working the phones... that's his job... and the C's are attached to every possible trade going down in the NBA according to most every media outlet, dotchaknow.

If the C's give up a haul for Kawhi or whatever... you may have a point. But until then Ainge is just doing his due diligence... perhaps looking for a steal.

 

[Gman]

But this is the issue here. The Celtics can put Morris or Ojeleye out there but that means one of Brown, Tatum, Hayward would have to sit.

Every one of those guys is (at least) a decent defender... no one "has to" sit or else defense is thrown out the window.

Beyond that... this is a great problem to have (that's first and foremost: this is super positive, not a negative), and it seems the C's can come at opponents in waves and stay fresh. A nice team strength to have.

I'm skeptical that the Celtics can stop the Warriors in the playoffs since no one really has in 4 years without injuries and suspensions getting involved.

Fair enough, here.

No doubt GS should be favorites, I'll say again. When I'm trying to say is that Boston can compete against and challenge them... meaning they have a legitimate chance to win... but it would still be the chance of the underdog against a favorite.

What exactly would that chance be? Tough to pin that down... and, of course, it would be a spiffball, made up %. But if you put a gun to my head... somewhere between 1 in 5 and 1 in 3.

 

[flyerhawk]

The argument proffered is that 4 to 5 players on the floor at a time who are legitimate triple threats can match the productivity of one offensive focal point...

... frankly, you don't seem to have a substantive counterpoint to this claim beyond falling back on on the same time tested wisdom that you started with... 'you need an elite player to win.'

Well yeah. I have 40 years of history on my side. 38 champions had at least one MVP on their team. 2 didn't.

It's a shame the C's choked away game 7 vs the Cav's. The team offensive strategy didn't fail... rather, young guys like Brown and Rozier tightened up in the big moment and missed shot after shot after shot. Getting Irving and Hayward back gives them steadiness and even the one man offense (Kyrie) that is sometimes great to fall back on.

Well it would have been a brief experience in the finals for them as well.

Of course Ainge is working the phones... that's his job... and the C's are attached to every possible trade going down in the NBA according to most every media outlet, dotchaknow.

If the C's give up a haul for Kawhi or whatever... you may have a point. But until then Ainge is just doing his due diligence... perhaps looking for a steal.

We shall see what happens.

 

[flyerhawk]

What exactly would that chance be? Tough to pin that down... and, of course, it would be a spiffball, made up %. But if you put a gun to my head... somewhere between 1 in 5 and 1 in 3.

That's fair.

 

[ManuForever]

Rudy Gay declines his player option. Dominoes starting to fall. Was great having him as a Spur for the limited time he was there.

 

[Heatles84]

The problem with Boston and Kawhi is money.

No team can carry 4 max players.

Boston already has Horford on a max, Hayward on a max, and Kyrie on a max.

Kyrie or Hayward or Horford would HAVE to go out in a deal.

Not only that- but they have to be cognizant of the fact that at some point Brown, Rozier, and Tatum will be up for new contracts. No time soon for Tatum- but as i said- 4 max guys is just not feasible under the current CBA.

Its why if Boston does step up and make an offer- Kyrie or Horford basically HAVE to be in the deal.

for the Sixers its not much of an issue since they dont have guys on those deals yet- and only Simmons and Embiid will garner those type of deals. They still have a slot for a 3rd max guy.


its basically why the Warriors are not operating on borrowed time.....having 4 max guys is practically impossible unless they take significant discounts. A "max" is roughly 30-35% of the cap depending on status, years in the league, whether yo uare a "Rose Rule" guy etc.....

you cant have 4 guys making 30%-35% of the cap- PLUS the rest of your team is whawt it comes down to.

I'd probably include Kyrie and Hayward in a deal for Kawhi. Hayward being the more consistent player health-wise (his injury was a freak one). I don't think Horford would be a desirable asset by the Spurs. But having Hayward and Kawhi on the same team is redundant, and in that respective you go with Kawhi who's far better than Hayward. Kyrie I'd trade given that he's not healthy and has given no indication that he plans on re-signing with Boston. Boston of course would also have to throw in multiple picks as well.

 

[flyerhawk]

Kyrie I'd trade given that he's not healthy and has given no indication that he plans on re-signing with Boston. Boston of course would also have to throw in multiple picks as well.

I think a bit too much is being made of Kyrie's comments about resigning with the Celtics.

If Kyrie were to re-sign now, he would lose something like 20 million in salary.

 

[Heatles84]

I think a bit too much is being made of Kyrie's comments about resigning with the Celtics.

If Kyrie were to re-sign now, he would lose something like 20 million in salary.

That's fair.

 

[LogicMan]

For the record,

I think a potential trade of Kyrie + picks for Kawhi would give the Celtics a lot more than a puncher's chance against GS.

Kawhi is the game's best 2 way player, he can handle the ball and has great length. Kyrie is not a 2 way player. He isn't a terrible defender anymore, but he isn't an asset there either.

Can you imagine a team with Brown,Tatum,Hayward, Kawhi, Horford all playing interchangeably. I love Kyrie but damn that team and Smart at point would be the tsunami of defense

 

[tlance]

Can you imagine a team with Brown,Tatum,Hayward, Kawhi, Horford all playing interchangeably. I love Kyrie but damn that team and Smart at point would be the tsunami of defense

That would be really nasty.

And that is why I say Ainge should be aggressive here and try to get this done.

 

[Gman]

Well yeah. I have 40 years of history on my side. 38 champions had at least one MVP on their team. 2 didn't.

This history isn't in dispute... I again concede it. Here are my two counter-points, though:

1.) The NBA game has evolved, and up until very recently it wasn't really possible to floor 4 to 5 guys for long stretches of time who are legitimate triple threats on offense. GS and Boston are arguably the top 2 teams on the cutting edge of this phenomenon. So it's not like this 'positionless basketball' hocus pocus has been tested and found wanting in the face of traditional wisdom... this is new, and not necessarily subject to the old rules. We'll see, of course.

2.) Stevens and Ainge have been working towards a wing heavy, versatile and interchangeable team for years... so my optimism about next season isn't as homerish as it might seem... IMO, anyways. What I mean is, it's not too soon... it's not only one good playoff run... this is an idea that has been in motion and years deep.