shark vindicated

[skinsdad62]

earlier this year said shark that KC was offered a contract the season before he took over as starter in washington , that would be 2014 , as he said . the deal was for 4 years , 32 mil which would be a HUGE deal on the cheap . KC would have signed it gladly according to adam shefter but Allen pulled it off the table

at this time there is no link, however it is on todays show "golic and wingo " so google it up and look on twitter

certain posters disputed this and now it has in fact come to light just as he said

this very well could have been the beginning of the rift between KC and 396

 

[Niner Outlaw]

earlier this year said shark that KC was offered a contract the season before he took over as starter in washington , that would be 2014 , as he said . the deal was for 4 years , 32 mil which would be a HUGE deal on the cheap . KC would have signed it gladly according to adam shefter but Allen pulled it off the table

at this time there is no link, however it is on todays show "golic and wingo " so google it up and look on twitter

certain posters disputed this and now it has in fact come to light just as he said

this very well could have been the beginning of the rift between KC and 396

I hate to be Buzz Killington, but that is not what Schefter said this morning.

He said:
“The Washington Redskins, as an example, when they decided to hand over the starting job to KC they were getting ready to sign him to a 4yr, 32M deal. That ultimately at the last moment, they decided to pull off the table. Which is in 2015. ….they were gonna pay him before he started. KC would’ve been thrilled to take 4yrs and 32M. …btw, the redskins didn’t follow through on the deal. They decided not to offer the deal. The rest is history.”

If you don't believe me, listen for yourself:

Start it at the 17:45 spot and and Schefty goes on until about the 19:00 mark.

 

[Rowdy]

I hate to be Buzz Killington, but that is not what Schefter said this morning.

He said:
“The Washington Redskins, as an example, when they decided to hand over the starting job to KC they were getting ready to sign him to a 4yr, 32M deal. That ultimately at the last moment, they decided to pull off the table. Which is in 2015. ….they were gonna pay him before he started. KC would’ve been thrilled to take 4yrs and 32M. …btw, the redskins didn’t follow through on the deal. They decided not to offer the deal. The rest is history.”

If you don't believe me, listen for yourself:

Start it at the 17:45 spot and and Schefty goes on until about the 19:00 mark.

At that time was their only legitimate chance of signing him to a "cheap deal" imo. Hard to be too critical because no one really knew how he would evolve.

 

[Sportster 72]

At that time was their only legitimate chance of signing him to a "cheap deal" imo. Hard to be too critical because no one really knew how he would evolve.

But .... it is there job to forecast and in this case they played prove it instead of pay him and we all know how that turned out. I believe there was a commercial that went something like "you can pay me now or you can pay me later ......"

 

[Sharkinva]

At that time was their only legitimate chance of signing him to a "cheap deal" imo. Hard to be too critical because no one really knew how he would evolve.

This is a clear cut case of Bruce outsmarting himself.

Even IF they had signed Kirk to a 4 year $32M deal and he tanked.

1. Chances are that deal would have included at most $16M in guaranteed money
2. If it carried $16M in guaranteed money, it would have been cheaper to cut him than it was to carry Bob as a backup in 2015

3. It would have built up some sort of loyalty between Kirk and the front office.
4. If Kirk had the three years he did end up ultimately having, and we were forced to franchise him NEXT year, it would cost around $26M to franchise him.

26 + 32= $58M

We gave up $44M for basically 2 years so IM looking at it like this

$14.5M a year for 4 years beats fuck out of $22M a year for effectively 2 years. Or even if you throw in his 2015 cap cost of $778,172 and round it to 3 years, it still comes out to $15M a year over those three years.... and all it cost us is a 3rd plus a CB.

 

[Stymietee]

I hate to be Buzz Killington, but that is not what Schefter said this morning.

He said:
“The Washington Redskins, as an example, when they decided to hand over the starting job to KC they were getting ready to sign him to a 4yr, 32M deal. That ultimately at the last moment, they decided to pull off the table. Which is in 2015. ….they were gonna pay him before he started. KC would’ve been thrilled to take 4yrs and 32M. …btw, the redskins didn’t follow through on the deal. They decided not to offer the deal. The rest is history.”

If you don't believe me, listen for yourself:

Start it at the 17:45 spot and and Schefty goes on until about the 19:00 mark.

Well, well, well, it turns out ole' Sty's listening/observational skills were still working well back then and was...somebody help me out with this...SPOT-ON, as I called it at the time.

 

[Stymietee]

This is a clear cut case of Bruce outsmarting himself.

Even IF they had signed Kirk to a 4 year $32M deal and he tanked.

1. Chances are that deal would have included at most $16M in guaranteed money
2. If it carried $16M in guaranteed money, it would have been cheaper to cut him than it was to carry Bob as a backup in 2015

3. It would have built up some sort of loyalty between Kirk and the front office.
4. If Kirk had the three years he did end up ultimately having, and we were forced to franchise him NEXT year, it would cost around $26M to franchise him.

26 + 32= $58M

We gave up $44M for basically 2 years so IM looking at it like this

$14.5M a year for 4 years beats fuck out of $22M a year for effectively 2 years. Or even if you throw in his 2015 cap cost of $778,172 and round it to 3 years, it still comes out to $15M a year over those three years.... and all it cost us is a 3rd plus a CB.

All of this could have been, except there was context at the time. If we're honest, that was enough for them to NOT put an offer on the table. Here's a refresher, Kirk's resume' up to that moment was one that highlighted his propensity to turn the ball over, and, as if that wasn't enough, he sulked and put himself into to some sort of personal funk, further reducing his confidence to quickly put things behind him and lead the team. Remember? Dude was ACTUALLY benched because of this a couple of times.

 

[Sharkinva]

All of this could have been, except there was context at the time. If we're honest, that was enough for them to NOT put an offer on the table. Here's a refresher, Kirk's resume' up to that moment was one that highlighted his propensity to turn the ball over, and, as if that wasn't enough, he sulked and put himself into to some sort of personal funk, further reducing his confidence to quickly put things behind him and lead the team. Remember? Dude was ACTUALLY benched because of this a couple of times.

Sorry.. got to call Bullshit on that.

The offer not being presented had dick to do with.. well what if he fails.

Kirk on a $32M dollar 4 year deal would likely have been a VERY team friendly deal designed to allow the team to get out of it rather painlessly in the event he did fail. It was all about not upsetting the chosen one.

Bruce outsmarted himself, all there is to it.

 

[Stymietee]

Sorry.. got to call Bullshit on that.

The offer not being presented had dick to do with.. well what if he fails.

Kirk on a $32M dollar 4 year deal would likely have been a VERY team friendly deal designed to allow the team to get out of it rather painlessly in the event he did fail. It was all about not upsetting the chosen one.

Bruce outsmarted himself, all there is to it.

What exactly are you reading? There's nothing in what I wrote that remotely suggests a connection between his future production or failure. The evaluation was on what he had ACTUALLY done up to that point. Now you can call bullshit as much as you want, but facts are facts and there had to be an explanation why this "considered" offer did not become a real one. This is where a lot of folks here got off track.

BTW; it might be helpful to put the whole Griffin thing to rest, it's old, tired and frankly had little to do with them signing or not signing Cousins. Funny how much Cousins performance had to do with Griffin. OK, people hate the guy, but again if we're honest, Kirk played a major role in that offer NOT being put forth. Yes Bruce is a dumbass, but that's a given.

 

[gkekoa]

This is what I just heard.

There were discussion of 4 years, 32 million dollars in the front office.

KC said he would have accepted that contract.


So the question becomes this...how could KC have known about the discussions to answer the question if he wasn’t involved in the process?

There may not have been a formal offer, but there was definitely an offer within the discussion.

As for what KC had proven for 8 million a year, Mike Glennon was paid 15 mil last season and in 2016 Chase Daniel was paid 7 mil with no chance of being anything more than a backup.

 

[Stymietee]

This is what I just heard.

There were discussion of 4 years, 32 million dollars in the front office.

KC said he would have accepted that contract.


So the question becomes this...how could KC have known about the discussions to answer the question if he wasn’t involved in the process?

There may not have been a formal offer, but there was definitely an offer within the discussion.

As for what KC had proven for 8 million a year, Mike Glennon was paid 15 mil last season and in 2016 Chase Daniel was paid 7 mil with no chance of being anything more than a backup.

A couple of thoughts on your post. First, there's NO quote that I know of that had Kirk actually saying this. There were reports indicating he would have accepted such an offer but no more than that. To me that's a little like saying, "man, if not for "THOSE'" six numbers I would have won the lottery. We can "if and "woulda, shoulda" all day long, but without anything tangible, we have to deal with the facts as we know them right?

Finally, given Kirk's resume' AT THE TIME he was fortunate to have them "considering" such an offer. So, I'm going to continue to remind everyone that given that resume', this team and every other team in the NFL, Canada and the old Euro-league would have happily snapped up last year's Glennon and 2016 Daniels long before they would have the 2014 Kirk Cousins.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

This is what I just heard.

There were discussion of 4 years, 32 million dollars in the front office.

KC said he would have accepted that contract.


So the question becomes this...how could KC have known about the discussions to answer the question if he wasn’t involved in the process?

There may not have been a formal offer, but there was definitely an offer within the discussion.

As for what KC had proven for 8 million a year, Mike Glennon was paid 15 mil last season and in 2016 Chase Daniel was paid 7 mil with no chance of being anything more than a backup.

I agree. Reading between the lines, the situation was something like: "Kirk's agent says he'll accept this kind of offer. Do we make it, are we comfortable with this?" Kirk and his agent believe the deal is close, but rather than make the formal offer then the FO ultimately decides not to make the offer. That fits what Schefty said.

8M/year was near the bottom of the QB payscale for a starting QB that wasn't on his rookie contract. It makes sense. Schefty said the FO was discussing an 8M/year offer that Kirk would've been thrilled with (that means KC knew of it), but the FO never made the offer. It's a FO blunder. Plain and simple.

 

[Sharkinva]

I agree. Reading between the lines, the situation was something like: "Kirk's agent says he'll accept this kind of offer. Do we make it, are we comfortable with this?" Kirk and his agent believe the deal is close, but rather than make the formal offer then the FO ultimately decides not to make the offer. That fits what Schefty said.

8M/year was near the bottom of the QB payscale for a starting QB that wasn't on his rookie contract. It makes sense. Schefty said the FO was discussing an 8M/year offer that Kirk would've been thrilled with (that means KC knew of it), but the FO never made the offer. It's a FO blunder. Plain and simple.

OH most of us agree on WHAT happened. Some folks are just pushing a different narrative as to WHY it happened is all. And I could see if Bruce was averse to signing guys who had been marginal or semi flops else where. But for fork sake, we signed MCGhee and McClain to be prominent players, yet they want us to buy the real reason Bruce wouldnt even try to get Cousins at what would have been a steal of a deal is because there was context in play.

 

[gkekoa]

A couple of thoughts on your post. First, there's NO quote that I know of that had Kirk actually saying this. There were reports indicating he would have accepted such an offer but no more than that. To me that's a little like saying, "man, if not for "THOSE'" six numbers I would have won the lottery. We can "if and "woulda, shoulda" all day long, but without anything tangible, we have to deal with the facts as we know them right?

Finally, given Kirk's resume' AT THE TIME he was fortunate to have them "considering" such an offer. So, I'm going to continue to remind everyone that given that resume', this team and every other team in the NFL, Canada and the old Euro-league would have happily snapped up last year's Glennon and 2016 Daniels long before they would have the 2014 Kirk Cousins.

Where do reports come from? They come from sources. So unless somebody was making up total bullshit, Kirk or his agent said this.

Kirk was coming off a rookie contract and there was obviously some believers. We were fortunate he didn’t run away and play elsewhere at that point. You can think people would grab Glennon and Daniels over he KC of then, realistically, that probably isn’t true.

 

[gkekoa]

I agree. Reading between the lines, the situation was something like: "Kirk's agent says he'll accept this kind of offer. Do we make it, are we comfortable with this?" Kirk and his agent believe the deal is close, but rather than make the formal offer then the FO ultimately decides not to make the offer. That fits what Schefty said.

8M/year was near the bottom of the QB payscale for a starting QB that wasn't on his rookie contract. It makes sense. Schefty said the FO was discussing an 8M/year offer that Kirk would've been thrilled with (that means KC knew of it), but the FO never made the offer. It's a FO blunder. Plain and simple.

8 million would have been the lowest obvious starter in the league.

I agree the FO blew it.

 

[Stymietee]

Where do reports come from? They come from sources. So unless somebody was making up total bullshit, Kirk or his agent said this.

Kirk was coming off a rookie contract and there was obviously some believers. We were fortunate he didn’t run away and play elsewhere at that point. You can think people would grab Glennon and Daniels over he KC of then, realistically, that probably isn’t true.

OK, let's play this game, and apparently, in bullshitter's ball park. Reports come from "Fake" news!!. Yeah I said it. If that nonsense is all the rage now, why not then? I'm not saying that you're wrong in making this point, but additionally other more practical narratives must be considered. (YES, Bruce is a Dick!)

Not to beleaguer another point, but even @Shark's perspective that there was near or total Griffin disappointment/envy, or whatever, thrown into the mix concerning decisions made then must be considered, I'll not concede to a singular perspective, but to suggest that Kirk's own performance or lack therein was secondary to all others is just not in step with this business that above everything else considers the Janet Jackson. ("What have you done for me lately")

Did I mention, Bruce is a Dick?

BTW: We're just going to have to completely disagree with taking 2014's Kirk Cousins over either last years Glennon or 2016's Daniels because, to quote you..."realistically, that probably isn't true."

 

[Sleepy T]

Do we really need to go here again? KC was 2-7 as a starter for his 1st 3 years. Stats were sucky to boot. Say what you would like, but he had a lot of luck on his side in surviving those years.

 

[Sportster 72]

This is what I remember. I give VT credit for not sugar coating or using revisionist history. Most thought he sucked and didn't want him around. Really halfway through his 1st year as a starter most were calling for his head. People said he had hit his ceiling, he couldn't extend plays, he couldn't improve etc. etc.

I even like that VT said he was 2-7 as a starter like it was completely his fault and had nothing to do with the other 52 players. Many thought Tyrod Taylor, AJ McCarron and others would be equal or an equal replacement. Long story short he proved BA wrong, SM wrong, DS wrong and most of you wrong. Primarily shark, dad and myself were supporting him. Anything else is revisionist history. Folks got what they wanted, he is gone. Go Alex!!

 

[skinz2winz]

Pretty much started with his benching in 2014


and ended with the richest contract in QB history after 2017. Remarkable turn around for a 4th round after thought from Michigan St.

 

[Stymietee]

This is what I remember. I give VT credit for not sugar coating or using revisionist history. Most thought he sucked and didn't want him around. Really halfway through his 1st year as a starter most were calling for his head. People said he had hit his ceiling, he couldn't extend plays, he couldn't improve etc. etc.

I even like that VT said he was 2-7 as a starter like it was completely his fault and had nothing to do with the other 52 players. Many thought Tyrod Taylor, AJ McCarron and others would be equal or an equal replacement. Long story short he proved BA wrong, SM wrong, DS wrong and most of you wrong. Primarily shark, dad and myself were supporting him. Anything else is revisionist history. Folks got what they wanted, he is gone. Go Alex!!

Please re-read your post, and while doing so, note the inconsistencies in it. You say on the one hand that it's a team game in your attempt to disprove what @VTSparks posted. That is true, and a very good point. However, on the other hand you claim that he's proven others wrong as if the team around him had nothing to do with that "proof."

What folks fail to understand is that from the beginning I've had more issues with this QB centered mentality than any one player at the position.