shark vindicated

[Sportster 72]

Please re-read your post, and while doing so, note the inconsistencies in it. You say on the one hand that it's a team game in your attempt to disprove what @VTSparks posted. That is true, and a very good point. However, on the other hand you claim that he's proven others wrong as if the team around him had nothing to do with that "proof."

What folks fail to understand is that from the beginning I've had more issues with this QB centered mentality than any one player at the position.

There are no inconsistencies. You know my position Sty. Football is a team game. At some point you have to assign a value to a player also. I think he did enough the past three years to substantiate my point. Fourth all time in Redskins stats and 137th all time in the NFL. I did that and stand by what I said. As always everyone else is free to think whatever they want to.

 

[Stymietee]

There are no inconsistencies. You know my position Sty. Football is a team game. At some point you have to assign a value to a player also. I think he did enough the past three years to substantiate my point. Fourth all time in Redskins stats and 137th all time in the NFL. I did that and stand by what I said. As always everyone else is free to think whatever they want to.

I agree, it's a team game, always has been, always will be.

 

[gkekoa]

Football is a team game. Different positions have different costs, different values.

A good starting QB will cost 12-15% of the cap space.

A good DL will cost half of that.

A good safety will cost half of the DL.


QBs impact the game more than any other single position.
LTs, pass rushers, and corners after that.

 

[Sportster 72]

What you pay Lawrence Taylor in todays dollars?

 

[gkekoa]

What you pay Lawrence Taylor in todays dollars?

Less than Ryan Tannehill.

 

[Breed]

Less than Ryan Tannehill.

Why? Taylor made more plays than Tannehill does.

 

[Breed]

@Stymietee,

@Sharkinva is on point that the FO was still harboring hope of a Griffin rebound in 2014, but I agree with you, if this is what you were saying. That Kirk's performance up to that point (2014) was the biggest reason not to offer him a contract extension.

 

[Sharkinva]

@Stymietee,

@Sharkinva is on point that the FO was still harboring hope of a Griffin rebound in 2014, but I agree with you, if this is what you were saying. That Kirk's performance up to that point (2014) was the biggest reason not to offer him a contract extension.

The problem here is the year Sty is talking about. From all reports I saw, SMGM wanted to offer Kirk that deal at the beginning of 2015, after he was made the starter. And the deal was nixed by Bruce because they didnt want to risk upsetting Griffin any further just in case Cousins was not the long term answer. So in hindsight, a 4 year extension in 2015 would have extended Cousins through the 2019 season, at a cost of $8M per year. Meaning they would have this year AND next year still on his contract, and if things required, Kirk could have been franchised in 2020. IN effect the RG3 trade was like the gift that just keeps on giving. Cause in the end they are STILL paying for that blunder. $20M for Bob, $44M for Kirk, $71M for Smith, 3 first round draft picks, a 2nd, two 3rds and a 4th.

Thats a whole lot of money and draft picks basically expended on a guy who we got ONE good season out of.

 

[skinsdad62]

8 mil a yr for a BU ? not bad at all

 

[Stymietee]

@Stymietee,

@Sharkinva is on point that the FO was still harboring hope of a Griffin rebound in 2014, but I agree with you, if this is what you were saying. That Kirk's performance up to that point (2014) was the biggest reason not to offer him a contract extension.

Yes, hopefully we're all on the same page and talking about extending Kirk after the 2014 season. It was during the 2015 season that he bought "stability" to the position and it became too late to offer anything less than a contract based upon what the "cap" number would have paid him. Let's remember that Kirk actually played on the "cap" for three seasons. (2015, 2016 and 2017)

 

[Rowdy]

The problem here is the year Sty is talking about. From all reports I saw, SMGM wanted to offer Kirk that deal at the beginning of 2015, after he was made the starter. And the deal was nixed by Bruce because they didnt want to risk upsetting Griffin any further just in case Cousins was not the long term answer. So in hindsight, a 4 year extension in 2015 would have extended Cousins through the 2019 season, at a cost of $8M per year. Meaning they would have this year AND next year still on his contract, and if things required, Kirk could have been franchised in 2020. IN effect the RG3 trade was like the gift that just keeps on giving. Cause in the end they are STILL paying for that blunder. $20M for Bob, $44M for Kirk, $71M for Smith, 3 first round draft picks, a 2nd, two 3rds and a 4th.

Thats a whole lot of money and draft picks basically expended on a guy who we got ONE good season out of.

I think when they made Kirk the starter they knew rgknee was done

 

[Sharkinva]

I think when they made Kirk the starter they knew rgknee was done

Knowing something, and accepting the next steps are not always the same thing. And yes some folks in the front office might have KNOWN Griffin was done, but again rumor has it that the reason Bruce squashed any talks of extending Kirk at the time was a fear of upsetting Griffin further. Which means at least one person didnt think Griffin was done.

 

[Stymietee]

The problem here is the year Sty is talking about. From all reports I saw, SMGM wanted to offer Kirk that deal at the beginning of 2015, after he was made the starter. And the deal was nixed by Bruce because they didnt want to risk upsetting Griffin any further just in case Cousins was not the long term answer. So in hindsight, a 4 year extension in 2015 would have extended Cousins through the 2019 season, at a cost of $8M per year. Meaning they would have this year AND next year still on his contract, and if things required, Kirk could have been franchised in 2020. IN effect the RG3 trade was like the gift that just keeps on giving. Cause in the end they are STILL paying for that blunder. $20M for Bob, $44M for Kirk, $71M for Smith, 3 first round draft picks, a 2nd, two 3rds and a 4th.

Thats a whole lot of money and draft picks basically expended on a guy who we got ONE good season out of.

I think that there's some confusion here, a lot of people have continued to repeat the "at the beginning of or during the 2015 season" line which is NOT correct. SM by every report that I've read wanted to get this deal done PRIOR to the 2015 season. Here's one of those stories:

Fired Redskins GM reportedly wanted to sign Cousins before ...
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/fired-redskins-gm-reportedly...

While I'm certain that he wanted to continue his efforts to sign Kirk "at the beginning of" and "during" the 2015 season, the initial move to do this happened "prior" to the 2015 season. (SM was hired January 2015)

 

[Sportster 72]

SM led the group in we want to sign Cousin's long term but we have to have enough money to play other players. That began well before $20 million dollars. It was reported but I am not going to go look it up. Whether or not he was being the mouth piece for BA or not I have no clue. We keep coming back to this and I am not sure. There were figures and a time when Cousin's would have signed but the FO is balked. Now he is a Viking .... end of story.

 

[gkekoa]

Yes, hopefully we're all on the same page and talking about extending Kirk after the 2014 season. It was during the 2015 season that he bought "stability" to the position and it became too late to offer anything less than a contract based upon what the "cap" number would have paid him. Let's remember that Kirk actually played on the "cap" for three seasons. (2015, 2016 and 2017)

What is playing on the cap?

If you meant tag, no he didn’t. He played two seasons on the tag.

 

[gkekoa]

Why? Taylor made more plays than Tannehill does.

Did he make more plays than Tannehill does? He didn’t average ten tackles a game. Tannehill throws about 25 to 30 times per game and touches it every play on offense.

The real reason Tannehill makes more is the value placed on a position. Tannehill is the eighteenth highest paid QB in the league with most starters below him still on their rookie contracts.

The highest paid defenders in the league make just a little less than Tannehill.

The value of a 18th highest paid starting QB is greater than the best player of all other positions.

 

[Stymietee]

What is playing on the cap?

If you meant tag, no he didn’t. He played two seasons on the tag.

Thanks for the correction, 2015 was the final year of his rookie contract, yet another possible reason why a LTD was not offered/ nixed.

 

[gkekoa]

Thanks for the correction, 2015 was the final year of his rookie contract, yet another possible reason why a LTD was not offered/ nixed.

All that much more reason to offer it. That final year of the rookie contract doesn’t just vanish. You extend the player, basically adding years after the rookie contract is complete.

Hey Kirk, we see some promise in you but at this point it is unrealized. You can make 600k this final year of your rookie contract and may never see a big pay day, or we can offer an extension at 8 mil per season that includes a signing bonus of 16 million, which we will deposit as soon as the ink hits the paper.

 

[Sharkinva]

Thanks for the correction, 2015 was the final year of his rookie contract, yet another possible reason why a LTD was not offered/ nixed.

Again.. SMART team management would have extended the player BEFORE his rookie contract expired. We would have gotten said player for another four years beyond his rookie contract. At what would have been now considered an out right steal even if you are not sold that Cousins is in fact a franchise QB.

Our team, made the decision based on an inability to give up on the chosen one and not wanting to hurt his widdle feewings. So instead it cost us millions more in cap space than it needed to, as well as more draft resources to replace the QB position. All this and a portion of the fan base was actively supporting this move for by and large the same reason Bruce had for making the move.

AWESOME!!!!

 

[Breed]

The problem here is the year Sty is talking about. From all reports I saw, SMGM wanted to offer Kirk that deal at the beginning of 2015, after he was made the starter. And the deal was nixed by Bruce because they didnt want to risk upsetting Griffin any further just in case Cousins was not the long term answer. So in hindsight, a 4 year extension in 2015 would have extended Cousins through the 2019 season, at a cost of $8M per year. Meaning they would have this year AND next year still on his contract, and if things required, Kirk could have been franchised in 2020. IN effect the RG3 trade was like the gift that just keeps on giving. Cause in the end they are STILL paying for that blunder. $20M for Bob, $44M for Kirk, $71M for Smith, 3 first round draft picks, a 2nd, two 3rds and a 4th.

Thats a whole lot of money and draft picks basically expended on a guy who we got ONE good season out of.

I'm knowin. It's asininely insane on any number of levels that you look at it.