"Who's your Top 10 NFL QB List?"

[Warpath]

You don't have a 1600 yard RB with a bad OL. Any fool would see that.

Wash had play makers at WR, not big names. The Colts WR are old or just not that good.

Manning had Demarious Thomas, a stud WR. Eric Decker, a great WR, McGahee who is a play maker, and Brandon Stokely who is consistent. Manning had players around him.

What would you call TY Hilton if not a playmaker? Garcon, our best playmaker, was out for a good chunk of the season and playing injured with a foot problem the entire season when he was able to play. Fred Davis, our best option from the year prior was out half the season with an achilles. Who on our roster was a better WR than Reggie Wayne? Especially with Garcon and Davis out?

Our line is basically the same line last year as it was the year before, where we didn't have a 1600 yard rusher and were amongst the league leaders in sacks allowed. We went from a bottom rung running team to the best in one season.

Manning elevated the play of all those players. They certainly weren't great without him.

 

[Warpath]

I understand there is a fine line/gray area between offering differing perspectives and "trolling" so it becomes subjective. I do not believe I was doing the latter.

You want to debate points, do it. When someone counters your points feel free to counter back rather than whine about being replied to or cry homerism. I countered your stats with stats of my own that you had no counter for other than to dismiss them as "emotional" or "Homerism".

In the end, you are a guest on our board. If you want to harass people or purposefully try to instigate, then go to the smack talk threads and have fun.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Wow - on this thread it was posted that the Skins have a great O-line yet on another thread a poster stated that the Skins are not protecting RG3 for the future since they don't focus more on building on O-line. It can't be both ways. As always - the truth is in the middle - the Redskins have a decent line with one star type player (Williams).

BTW - can't speak for anyone else, but I am not emotional when posting my opinion. My objective opinion is that RG3 at this time is a better QB than Luck (not better than God) - period. If someone else does not agree - fine - that is their opinion.

 

[buried_in_snow]

You want to debate points, do it. When someone counters your points feel free to counter back rather than whine about being replied to or cry homerism. I countered your stats with stats of my own that you had no counter for other than to dismiss them as "emotional" or "Homerism".

In the end, you are a guest on our board. If you want to harass people or purposefully try to instigate, then go to the smack talk threads and have fun.

I'm not going to counter your (IMO) flawed perspective above.

Point is go back read your posts that replied to my first posts in this thread and you'll see that not only are you in violation of the team-specific board rules, as what was pointed out to me via PM/mods, but also of your own assertions above as well.

 

[jdwills126]

While you can interpret the tread how you like I was thinking more so based on several years of work, with rookies/young QBs as the exception. So basing a rating going into 2013 wasn't really what I had in mind.

For Instance, I really like your Dalton pick based on wins not numbers. He'd probably be in my Top 15.
But on the other hand Rivers made your top 10 list and you passed on Newton, Luck, RG3, Wilson, and Kaepernick claiming it had to do with trust in performance. While I'm not knocking your choices...It doesn't appear to be consistent.

Once again, I really like the Dalton mention though

I thought it was pretty consistent as I did not include Kaepernick, Wilson, or Luck due to one year and did not include Newton as his two season have not been consistent...one good...one poor. Dalton has put together two solid years and I value that greater than potential.

If I was using potential as a greater factor I would have bumped up the rookies and Newton. With the exception of Wilson as I think he is near his ceiling.

IMO I can't get excited over athletic rookies due to the Vince Young factor. Not a knock on RG3 or Luck but to be a franchise QB and one that competes against the best you need a track record. A case in point is Christian Ponder. Great athlete but the Vikings are looking to hard for quality backups. Makes me wonder if they question the guys ability. But so many fans wanted to jump on his band wagon when he passed Fat Ass McNabb on the depth chart.

 

[buried_in_snow]

Wow - on this thread it was posted that the Skins have a great O-line yet on another thread a poster stated that the Skins are not protecting RG3 for the future since they don't focus more on building on O-line. It can't be both ways. As always - the truth is in the middle - the Redskins have a decent line with one star type player (Williams).

BTW - can't speak for anyone else, but I am not emotional when posting my opinion. My objective opinion is that RG3 at this time is a better QB than Luck (not better than God) - period. If someone else does not agree - fine - that is their opinion.

They're completely different QBs with different skills sets, running completely different offenses and being asked to do completely different things.

It's hard to draw a fair and just comparison between the two. So what ends up typically happening is subjective bias comes into play.... which is normal when you're talking about fans/fanship.

Luck and RGIII will forever be compared because they were taken 1/2, so the debates will be similar to the endless Brady vs Peyton ones.

Meanwhile, there's a sleeper in all of it in Russell Wilson, who can be argued as playing better than both Luck and RGIII.

Only time will tell on everything.

Oh, and btw - it's perfectly fine for both RGIII and Luck to have outstanding careers and not draw comparisons to each other.

 

[buried_in_snow]

I thought it was pretty consistent as I did not include Kaepernick, Wilson, or Luck due to one year and did not include Newton as his two season have not been consistent...one good...one poor. Dalton has put together two solid years and I value that greater than potential.

If I was using potential as a greater factor I would have bumped up the rookies and Newton. With the exception of Wilson as I think he is near his ceiling.

IMO I can't get excited over athletic rookies due to the Vince Young factor. Not a knock on RG3 or Luck but to be a franchise QB and one that competes against the best you need a track record. A case in point is Christian Ponder. Great athlete but the Vikings are looking to hard for quality backups. Makes me wonder if they question the guys ability. But so many fans wanted to jump on his band wagon when he passed Fat Ass McNabb on the depth chart.

The one comment I made about Stafford that needs to be examined in all of this (IMO) is his record against .500 or better opponents: 1-23

I am never one to give the QB all the credit or blame for wins/losses, but that is something glaring to me.

 

[NickVT10]

You want to debate points, do it. When someone counters your points feel free to counter back rather than whine about being replied to or cry homerism. I countered your stats with stats of my own that you had no counter for other than to dismiss them as "emotional" or "Homerism".

In the end, you are a guest on our board. If you want to harass people or purposefully try to instigate, then go to the smack talk threads and have fun.

you have been here all of a week. I'd let the Redskins fans who have been here claim this board and decide if we are instigating.

And when the Skins got RG3, they changed the zone blocking scheme to adapt to be more similar to what RG3 had at Baylor. That is how the same line got better in a year. They found the right scheme for the guys they had. The OL was very good for Wash last year, watch film if you disagree. The zone blocking scheme doesn't move people out of the way, it lets the defense create its own holes. Morris also had great vision which is a MUST in a zone blocking scheme. It is clear you are a football fan that can google and know a roster but study the game itself more and you will see these things.

 

[Warpath]

I'm not going to counter your (IMO) flawed perspective above.

Point is go back read your posts that replied to my first posts in this thread and you'll see that not only are you in violation of the team-specific board rules, as what was pointed out to me via PM/mods, but also of your own assertions above as well.

No I wasn't. But I'm done with this regardless. Start talking football.

 

[buried_in_snow]

you have been here all of a week. I'd let the Redskins fans who have been here claim this board and decide if we are instigating.

That's a good point that I didn't even notice.

Most of these guys (that I recognize) and I go back 10+ years on ESPN and they've never took issue with me and my football discourse.

 

[buried_in_snow]

Start talking football.

have been... 99% of the time

 

[Warpath]

you have been here all of a week. I'd let the Redskins fans who have been here claim this board and decide if we are instigating.

I wasn't talking to you to begin with on that subject. Unless you want to inject yourself in what was going on between myself and buried in snow.

And when the Skins got RG3, they changed the zone blocking scheme to adapt to be more similar to what RG3 had at Baylor. That is how the same line got better in a year. They found the right scheme for the guys they had. The OL was very good for Wash last year, watch film if you disagree. The zone blocking scheme doesn't move people out of the way, it lets the defense create its own holes. Morris also had great vision which is a MUST in a zone blocking scheme. It is clear you are a football fan that can google and know a roster but study the game itself more and you will see these things.

Sorry, but you are wrong. They didn't change any blocking schemes when they drafted RG3. They are running the exact same blocking scheme that Shanahan has always deployed. The same zone blocking system that Grossman, McNabb and Beck played behind. Nothing changed there.

I don't need to watch film. I watch this team religiously. And you don't know what you are talking about if you are going to claim they changed blocking schemes. It completely crushes your credibility.

What changed is the addition of RG3 first and foremost. Which allows the pocket to move. And his running ability makes things easier on the offensive line. Because the defensive ends have to play run first it allows the offensive line an advantage. And his ability to run also creates wider running lanes by keeping the linebacker and safeties attention. Morris is a good back but he saw a big benefit from what RG3 brings to the table.

 

[Warpath]

have been... 99% of the time

Make it 100% and we'll be fine.

 

[jdwills126]

The one comment I made about Stafford that needs to be examined in all of this (IMO) is his record against .500 or better opponents: 1-23

I am never one to give the QB all the credit or blame for wins/losses, but that is something glaring to me.

Trust me it's not lost on Lions fans. But would you downgrade Calvin Johnson for the record? Stafford casn't be blamed for a poor running game and sad defense.

The same way I would give more weight to RG3 if he turns in another solid year because he has mid level wide receiver talent. Give him CJ, Fitzgerald, or Graham and he puts up significantly better numbers. I like Rivers in San Diego because the best he has really had to work with has been Gates.

 

[Warpath]

Most of these guys (that I recognize) and I go back 10+ years on ESPN and they've never took issue with me and my football discourse.

Same here. I've been posting on the Redskin ESPN board since the days that Norv Turner was our coach. I know Shark and several other posters very well. And I've seen you around enough to know that you aren't being honest on this front.

But we'll leave it there.

Dawn of a new day.

 

[ugafan6612]

Brady
P Manning
Rodgers
Rapistburger
E Manning
Flacco
Brees
Ryan
RG3
Luck

 

[buried_in_snow]

Trust me it's not lost on Lions fans. But would you downgrade Calvin Johnson for the record? Stafford casn't be blamed for a poor running game and sad defense.

The same way I would give more weight to RG3 if he turns in another solid year because he has mid level wide receiver talent. Give him CJ, Fitzgerald, or Graham and he puts up significantly better numbers. I like Rivers in San Diego because the best he has really had to work with has been Gates.

Like I said I don't put all/most blame on Stafford... just have to look at what you already recognize. And no, definitely wouldn't downgrade Johnson who is clearly one of, if not the, best WRs in the game. Which then also points to Stafford.

I also think Rivers had one of the more talented teams around him for much of his career - clearly not at this point.

Gates is a fine example, but he also had one of the greatest RBs in NFL history behind him, Vincent Jackson, Sproles, consistently good defenses, etc...

 

[buried_in_snow]

Same here. I've been posting on the Redskin ESPN board since the days that Norv Turner was our coach. I know Shark and several other posters very well. And I've seen you around enough to know that you aren't being honest on this front.

But we'll leave it there.

Dawn of a new day.

Many others would disagree with you.

Please just drop it, like you said you would several times now.

Make it 100% and we'll be fine.

Likewise.

 

[NickVT10]

I wasn't talking to you to begin with on that subject. Unless you want to inject yourself in what was going on between myself and buried in snow.

Sorry, but you are wrong. They didn't change any blocking schemes when they drafted RG3. They are running the exact same blocking scheme that Shanahan has always deployed. The same zone blocking system that Grossman, McNabb and Beck played behind. Nothing changed there.

I don't need to watch film. I watch this team religiously. And you don't know what you are talking about if you are going to claim they changed blocking schemes. It completely crushes your credibility.

What changed is the addition of RG3 first and foremost. Which allows the pocket to move. And his running ability makes things easier on the offensive line. Because the defensive ends have to play run first it allows the offensive line an advantage. And his ability to run also creates wider running lanes by keeping the linebacker and safeties attention. Morris is a good back but he saw a big benefit from what RG3 brings to the table.

I never said they changed TO and zone scheme, i said they changed THE zone scheme.

In 2012, not only did the Washington Redskins win the division, but on the backs of Robert Griffin III, Alfred Morris and our offensive line, we produced the #1 rushing offense in the entire NFL. Mike Shanahan, a master of the zone blocking scheme, was able to integrate concepts from RGIII's college offense at Baylor while not jeopardizing his own scheme, to produce one of the most explosive attacks the Redskins have ever seen.

Power Blocking Scheme vs. Zone Blocking Scheme: Which Do You Prefer? - Hogs Haven

This is going no where. You don't want to hear any argument that IMO Luck is a better QB right now. Your points are right saying that RG3's running ability helps the offense. No one is arguing that. I'm just saying that the running game helping him doesnt make him a better QB than other guys, just a more effective offense as a whole.

 

[NickVT10]

That's a good point that I didn't even notice.

Most of these guys (that I recognize) and I go back 10+ years on ESPN and they've never took issue with me and my football discourse.

I dont have any issues with your discourse. War over there is resistant to an outside view of his team...