Who gets canned?

[thedddd]

I know this is doom and gloom talk but after the last few weeks what else is there....

Have a feeling Hurdle is staying around no matter what but after the deadline moves the last two years that didn't help the Pirates win will cost NH his job especially if they don't win at least 81.

 

[Burgh Sports Rule]

I just don't know D. As I said in a previous thread, I have been a Huntington supporter for the 5yrs that he's been here.

I don't know if he will take the fall for yet a 2nd straight collapse or Hurdle or both?

However, since you asked the question:

My answer to start anyway, would be Greg Smith & Kyle Stark. After that any other Pirates scout... with 1 exception the Bucs need to retain Rene Gayo in my opinion.

I like the work he has been doing in Latin America.

As I said before, if this 2nd straight historic collapse is completed? Then, I think Hurdle needs to go.

As for Neal Huntington? As big a supporter of his as I have been, I think if he is not willing to fire people in his scouting & development departments & make the necessary changes for the betterment of this club? Then Huntington needs to get canned as well & we need to start over completely, from scratch with an entirely new front office team.

A Big problem with the Pirates is on the development side of things. That has to change.

Huntington has done a pretty good job re stocking our minor league system. However, for the Pirates to take the next step & win, we need better development of players in the minors & we need players that will be ready to contribute & to produce for the major league team when they get to Pittsburgh.

That has not happened as yet for the Pirates & for the Pirates to win again, that must change.

Just my opinion.

Burgh

 

[Darkstone42]

The players Huntington acquired at the deadline outperformed their replacements, Qualls aside. If Huntington gets canned, it should be for Barmes and Barajas, but let's also consider that after the first couple years, he has improved the team both in the minors and at the Major League level.

I think a manager who makes better baseball decisions may help the Pirates at this point more than Hurdle can, but it's hard to argue with the results from the first half of each of the past couple years. I give them each one more year, but if the team regresses next year, one or both of them should go.

 

[sychmd]

i agree about the development side of our organization needing to be revamped.
seems rare to me that we have players that can really help until they are 24.
other teams bring people up who contribute or fill holes out of spring training.
we dont very often.

 

[thecrow124]

My support for Huntington started to slip last season and has plummetted this season, The further we get away from each of his draft years, the worse those drafts tend to look. 2008 is looking pretty bad, with only Pedro being even big league average, no one else profiles as any more than a utility guy. 2009 is a total bust, Sanchez is looking like a bag of nothing but some decent Twitter posts, and there is nothing behind him to speak of. 2010 is starting to look like taillon and a couple guys that have had decent stretches at times in the minors. 2011 is still to early to call, and I would call 2012 an epic fail for not getting Appel to sign. There are a few interresting guys, but none that look to be difference makers. So saying that NH has restocked the minor leagues is like saying you furnished a brand new house by throwing a sleeping bag on the floor. All that being said I don't see him getting fired unless he flat out refuses to fire Kyle Stark and Greg Smith, if they don't go by his hand, then I think all 3 will go by Nutting's hand.

Hurdle is an interresting case. Personally I think he is a bafoon, but the players like him and he has done more with them in the 2 years he has been here than anyone in the minor leagues did with them in their entire time there. So I see no real reason for him to go.

I think every person we have in place as scouts around the globe should all be retained, hell the guy that signed Gift Ngope deserves a promotion.

Our player development staff is a different story, they all suck and should all be let go. Then again, maybe they are all afraid that if they don't do whatever NH says they will lose their job(Matt Walbeck).

 

[element1286]

Kyle Stark most likely, they seem to have a problem on the development side, and it seems like Stark is kinda weird, and said weirdness is being implemented in the Pirates development program, if anyone saw dejan's article in the trib this morning.

 

[Illinest]

Hurdle is not a problem imo. I think it's a very rare manager that doesn't get second guessed and I do think it's likely that he deserves at least some credit for Jones' improvements. Gaby Sanchez has looked better since he came here, Snider maybe too. I also think he probably has done the right things with Alvarez as well.

I don't really have a problem with Stark. Gayo deserves a raise. I heard someone complaining once that he uses strongarm tactics - I don't know how true that is - but I admire a guy who gets things done.

The pitching went to crap. I'm willing to go into next season largely unchanged because I think that Cole will arrive and solve a part of the problem. I do believe that we need to look for a #2 type starter. We won't be in the market for an ace but our rotation needs some help. McPherson and Locke haven't looked all that different from what I expected. They look like back of the rotation guys. We have a glut of those - we need some difference-makers.

 

[grayghost668]

pirates need players who don't quit,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they had a decent shot at playoffs this year and choked again,,,hell they had me sucked back in this year thinking they had finaly got their shit together,,,,,,shit it's over,,again

 

[Darkstone42]

Hurdle is not a problem imo. I think it's a very rare manager that doesn't get second guessed and I do think it's likely that he deserves at least some credit for Jones' improvements. Gaby Sanchez has looked better since he came here, Snider maybe too. I also think he probably has done the right things with Alvarez as well.

I don't really have a problem with Stark. Gayo deserves a raise. I heard someone complaining once that he uses strongarm tactics - I don't know how true that is - but I admire a guy who gets things done.

The pitching went to crap. I'm willing to go into next season largely unchanged because I think that Cole will arrive and solve a part of the problem. I do believe that we need to look for a #2 type starter. We won't be in the market for an ace but our rotation needs some help. McPherson and Locke haven't looked all that different from what I expected. They look like back of the rotation guys. We have a glut of those - we need some difference-makers.

How do you feel about Searage? Back-to-back years with pitching collapses, but is Searage responsible for that, or is he responsible for hiding his pitchers' deficiencies for most of a season?

I do think another starting pitcher is a must this offseason. A shortstop or catcher wouldn't be a bad idea, either.

 

[Darkstone42]

Stark's in hot water from critics for his Navy training stunt.

Pittsburgh Pirates? Navy SEAL training methods result in ridicule - MLB - Sporting News

Personally, I don't see what all the fuss is about for the training. It was one weekend, and I've always admired the concepts of discipline and practical fitness preached in military training regimens, and I think they're pretty universally athletically applicable. The email was a bit goofy, though...

 

[thecrow124]

Stark's in hot water from critics for his Navy training stunt.

Pittsburgh Pirates? Navy SEAL training methods result in ridicule - MLB - Sporting News

Personally, I don't see what all the fuss is about for the training. It was one weekend, and I've always admired the concepts of discipline and practical fitness preached in military training regimens, and I think they're pretty universally athletically applicable. The email was a bit goofy, though...

I disagree, I have yet to figure out what military training has to do with playing baseball. I have also witnessed first hand SEAL training, it is something else entirely, it is intended to build trust in your peers mainly by creating disdain, to a point, in those training you. It also adds no value other than teambuilding to any form of baseball activity. I will also add that Navy SEALs are on a completely different stratosphere of athletic fitness than you would see on any baseball player, football player, or basektball player. It would probably more closely parallel the fitness level of a decathlete, or triathlete. It is just different.

Now your typical Army or Marine fitness routine would be more aplicable and probably better suited to the needs of our minor leaguers.

 

[pixburgher66]

Hurdle couldn't have it both ways - The Denver Post

Eerie similarities. It's time for Hurdle to go. He's a great "coach" but a terrible manager. Makes bad decisions in regards to in game choices and personnel. I agree that NH deserves some blame, but his trades were pretty solid this year in my opinion. Snider has great, great potential. However, if the mentality is truly to change, maybe cleaning house is the only way.

 

[pixburgher66]

Hurdle Then & Now: Denver Post on Clint?s 2009 Firing - Bucs Dugout
This is where I got the previous article.