Utility IF

[thedddd]

Pirates Still Looking For Utility Infielder: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

I guess the seventeen thousand light hitting middle IF's aren't enough that they signed.

To be honest I don't get this report because I have no issue with the backup IF's they have in d'Arnaud, Harrison and Navarro for the given roles.

 

[element1286]

They have Mercer as well, I agree they don't need another one. It will be interesting to see who plays ss at AAA, since seemingly both d'Arnaud and Mercer will be there for an extended period.

 

[thedddd]

I forgot about Mercer! I would rather have Mercer play most of the games at AAA and keep d'Arnaud in the utility role because I doubt he can be an every day SS.

Also I think Mercer has way more upside and should get a long look at the everyday SS role. Then if Barmes gets hurt he can come up and play everyday here.

 

[thecrow124]

If this management team is looking for a utility infielder right now then it is an embarrassment to us as fans. There are too many glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed before we look for a scrapheap IF, especially since we have 4 already on the 40 man roster. We need an upgrade at 1B, 3B, and starting pitching. There is no reason I can see to be worried about "upgrading" our bench that I can see. Navarro, Harrison or d'Arnaud can fill that role with the others getting innings at Indy, none of the three really amount to any more than a utility IF anyway and all have major league experience.

 

[magnumo]

If this management team is looking for a utility infielder right now then it is an embarrassment to us as fans. There are too many glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed before we look for a scrapheap IF, especially since we have 4 already on the 40 man roster. We need an upgrade at 1B, 3B, and starting pitching. There is no reason I can see to be worried about "upgrading" our bench that I can see. Navarro, Harrison or d'Arnaud can fill that role with the others getting innings at Indy, none of the three really amount to any more than a utility IF anyway and all have major league experience.

I think thecrow124 has hit the nail firmly, directly, and completely on its head.

When I first read the title of the link posted by thedddd, my first reaction was, "Why? Why would the Pirates spend any time at all on yet another utility infielder? That has no potential to add value! This team has far more important things to worry about (another decent starting pitcher and another decent bat)!"

My next thought was, "The Pirates already spent their rule 5 pick on a utility infielder. Have they given up on that guy already?

My third thought was, "Utility infielders are cheap."

.....and my final thought.....

 

[Burgh Sports Rule]

If this management team is looking for a utility infielder right now then it is an embarrassment to us as fans. There are too many glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed before we look for a scrapheap IF, especially since we have 4 already on the 40 man roster. We need an upgrade at 1B, 3B, and starting pitching. There is no reason I can see to be worried about "upgrading" our bench that I can see. Navarro, Harrison or d'Arnaud can fill that role with the others getting innings at Indy, none of the three really amount to any more than a utility IF anyway and all have major league experience.

I am starting to agree with many of you. Also, this comment is coming from a guy that has supported Neal Huntington in the past & to an extent, still does.

But Ut Inf? We need a 1b & Starting Pitching & we are looking for a Ut Inf?

I am starting to wonder about Huntington & his whole approach.

Which, I think is this: Completely Suck until every young Draft Pick I have made, makes it to the majors & than we will win!

Well, guess what Neal. Going the Draft Pick route often works & for teams like the Pirates, this is the BEST approach.

But, often times, Minor League Systems fail to produce the wanted results.

In the meantime Neal... What about the Big Club?

Are we ever going to make a move, a trade, a signing, spend money, on a long term piece to this team, that will Really, REALLY HELP the Big Club?

And I am not talking a stop gap player, or someone we are hoping turns his career around with the Pirates.

But Real Help, Long Term. IE 1B or SP or SS, for the Big Club?

These are questions I still have for the "Best Management Team In All Of Sports." LOL!

Burgh.

 

[thedddd]

I think thecrow124 has hit the nail firmly, directly, and completely on its head.

When I first read the title of the link posted by thedddd, my first reaction was, "Why? Why would the Pirates spend any time at all on yet another utility infielder? That has no potential to add value! This team has far more important things to worry about (another decent starting pitcher and another decent bat)!"

My next thought was, "The Pirates already spent their rule 5 pick on a utility infielder. Have they given up on that guy already?

My third thought was, "Utility infielders are cheap."

.....and my final thought.....

Totally agree with you and thecrow! I honestly hope this report was just a rumor and nothing more.

On another note it looks Derrek Lee has no interest in coming back to Pittsburgh. Wasn't shocked.

 

[element1286]

Meh, you guys are a little over the top.

I don't think they need one, but it never hurts to make a call, and I doubt it was much more than that.

 

[thedddd]

Meh, you guys are a little over the top.

I don't think they need one, but it never hurts to make a call, and I doubt it was much more than that.

Yes a little and like stated probably just a rumor. But if this continues to be the only type of reports that come from the Pirates doesn't that make you start to question the focus of the Front office if the focus is strengthen the bench?

 

[thecrow124]

Meh, you guys are a little over the top.

I don't think they need one, but it never hurts to make a call, and I doubt it was much more than that.

I really don't think I am. We actually have money to spend for once, and our GM is looking for upgrades to positions that we have filled and that we have back-up fillers for. At the end of last season, he said he wanted Derek Lee back on the team, this is before anyone else was signed and we knew we had money. Why hasn't Derek Lee signed? If you want someone, you go sign them, period. Don't make the statistically best offer, go get the guy signed. Derek Lee wasn't going to break the bank. Instead, now we still need a first baseman, Derek Lee is still available, and we are talking to utility infielders that will likely cost between 1 and 2 million. We have options in AAA that are cheaper and showed last season they could perform as well as any other bench player on the market. NH drafted a guy in the rule 5 draft to be a utility infielder, if he doesn't like the guy, why waste the pick? It just doesn't make sense.

I am beginning to think that the reason free agents don't sign with us has more to do with NH and less to do with our losing streak. JDLR last year got the exact same offer from Colorado he got from us, but signed to pitch in Denver? Who the heck signed to pitch in Denver when you can go to a park that would help your stats for a much bigger payday? Going back even further, and on a different field, Miguel Sano, the kid wanted nothing more than to play for the Pirates but NH was such a jag that he ended up signing with Minnesota, and he is their #1 prospect, how good would our system look with him in it?

All I am saying is don't give me lip service, if you can't concievably sign a guy, or really only want the guy at a price you deem fair, then don't tell me about how much you want him. Lastly, while I am on my soapbox, stop telling us what you can't do, he completely took us out of the Prince Fielder sweepstakes because we couldn't afford him, but guess what, there isn't much of a market for him and his price isn't going to be as bad as what everyone thought. We could have been in on him, with a legit offer.

Now Niel prove me wrong and go get Yoenis Cespedes, just get the deal done, pay more than any other team, and give him more years, whatever, get it done.

 

[element1286]

So what you are saying is that it is a bad idea to have a firm value on a player, and that people don't sign here cause they don't like NH?

 

[Illinest]

I understand the point element is making but i still think this was ridiculous. The pirates don't need a utility IF. announcing that we're looking for one sends a bad message. The pirates have to have a surprise in the works to get to where I would consider this a successful offseason. Something big like signing that Cuban outfielder. DK said with a straight face that the Pirates are done making major moves. Such a letdown.

 

[thecrow124]

So what you are saying is that it is a bad idea to have a firm value on a player, and that people don't sign here cause they don't like NH?

I guess that is what I am saying, not what I really thought when I started that post, but that is what it came out sounding like. I think it is a very good idea to place a value on a player, when you are in a position to be that way. Right now, we are in no position to have a hard line value on a player, it needs to be fluid. Let's say Derek Lee has a value of $10 million per season, that should be his value because that is what his WAR or whatever statistical analysis says he is worth...to a winning team. If you are trying to get him to sign with you and you are a losing franchise, maybe you need to go to say $10.5 million per season to get him to sign. Did you overpay, maybe, probably, but at least it shows that you are making a legitimate effort. This actually isn't coming out how it sounds in my head either.

After saying that, the fact remains that there is no real reason to be even talking to utility players, we just don't need one. I am not trying to bash Neil, but I just don't understand his philosophy with the major league club. He says that when the time is right that we will add impact players to the major league roster, I am not sure if he has looked into the future, but in the next couple of years, his draft classes will be flooding the major league roster. There are no real impact bats hitting FA for a long time, why did he not make a run at Fielder? I know a lot of people thought he was going to get a huge contract, but he isn't in all likelyhood. That si the one FA we should have been going after, but instead he made a lateral move at short for more money and got us a 1/2 season pitcher. I like both moves, but neither should have taken precedents over at least giving Fielder a call. To get anywhere near Fielder's production via trade, you are talking about giving up Taillon, Cole, plus more minor leaguers, which tends to wipe out you minor leagues system.

Sorry, rambling again, I'll let it go. I am just frustrated and want to see a glimmer of hope for the major league team instead of all the focus on building the minor league system.

 

[element1286]

I guess that is what I am saying, not what I really thought when I started that post, but that is what it came out sounding like. I think it is a very good idea to place a value on a player, when you are in a position to be that way. Right now, we are in no position to have a hard line value on a player, it needs to be fluid. Let's say Derek Lee has a value of $10 million per season, that should be his value because that is what his WAR or whatever statistical analysis says he is worth...to a winning team. If you are trying to get him to sign with you and you are a losing franchise, maybe you need to go to say $10.5 million per season to get him to sign. Did you overpay, maybe, probably, but at least it shows that you are making a legitimate effort. This actually isn't coming out how it sounds in my head either.

After saying that, the fact remains that there is no real reason to be even talking to utility players, we just don't need one. I am not trying to bash Neil, but I just don't understand his philosophy with the major league club. He says that when the time is right that we will add impact players to the major league roster, I am not sure if he has looked into the future, but in the next couple of years, his draft classes will be flooding the major league roster. There are no real impact bats hitting FA for a long time, why did he not make a run at Fielder? I know a lot of people thought he was going to get a huge contract, but he isn't in all likelyhood. That si the one FA we should have been going after, but instead he made a lateral move at short for more money and got us a 1/2 season pitcher. I like both moves, but neither should have taken precedents over at least giving Fielder a call. To get anywhere near Fielder's production via trade, you are talking about giving up Taillon, Cole, plus more minor leaguers, which tends to wipe out you minor leagues system.

Sorry, rambling again, I'll let it go. I am just frustrated and want to see a glimmer of hope for the major league team instead of all the focus on building the minor league system.

I think he is probably haggling over the amount of years in most cases. But to your point I absolutely agree there should be wiggle room, how much is up for debate obviously. Although I can't see NH haggling over 500k when he is handing out 10+ million dollar deals. But leaving 10-20% wiggle room is necessary if he really wants the cut.

I just don't see Fielder as a option, especially when there is no cost certainty with Cutch at this point. I don't know, Boras clients always sign late, and still get outrageous deals. I don't doubt they could take on 20 million more salary and be alright this year. I just wouldn't want to hand out 20 million in contracts this year, and be committed to that 20 million per year for the better part of a decade. The main reason why I advocate they pick up some overpriced turnaround guys in a trade to improve the team, and spend some money.

Anyways, the Pirates were the least depressing Pittsburgh team this weekend, doesn't happen too often, eh?