nuraman00
Well-Known Member
The systems and teams could be similar, and in fact were, but that was the system's compensatory abilities.
My whole analogy is messy, but my belief is clear - team stats can compare teams, not individuals, IMO. It can shed light on some things, but when comparing individuals in the same system, a lesser statistical output is informative.
I've been talking about team stats though, not individuals.
I'm not saying Stockton or Malone were a product of the system.
I'm saying the system seems to take below average players, such as what you coined McLopOyo, and enhance their skills in a certain area (assists).
Or, scoring from a PF (Harpring).
And they can still maintain rank high on a team levels in those areas (assist %, points in the paint, frontcourt scoring).
I'm focusing on the lesser players, not the HOFs.
A system can't make a HOF (but it could turn an above average player into an All-Star).
Other side notes:
* No, there are teams where nobody has to score. Jefferson scored because he could get shots. You have to be skilled to be able to average that many points and have that kind of usage rate. It takes skill to be able to generate a certain amount of shots.
There are plenty of teams in NBA history where the team can't score, and nobody has a high usage rate on the team.
The Bobcats, for example, don't have a player that had a usage rate like what Jefferson did in Minnesota. Because they don't have a player that can get shots like Jefferson could. The Bobcats only have one player above 15ppg. Walker leads the team with 18ppg.
The Nuggets in 2002-2003 were similar. Only one player above 14.2 points a game, Juwan Howard, and he only averaged 18ppg. And again, Howard's usage rate is a few % lower than what Jefferson did in Minnesota.
So even those players on other teams that played a lot of minutes couldn't do what Jefferson could. It takes a certain skill to be able to get off shots.
I know you were just making an analogy, using what Locke said. But I'm saying that sometimes a player on a bad team playing well is still a sign of some skill.
And similarly, sometimes a player playing well on a good team is not as impressive. For example, Trevor Ariza had some decent numbers on a good Lakers team, but I knew his numbers would get worse on a bad team. And they did, when the Lakers didn't want him back (they wanted Artest instead) and he signed with Houston. Ariza had little responsibility on the Lakers, while on the Rockets, even if he had to do just a little more, it showed he couldn't handle it. When he had to make any decisions with the ball in Houston, he made the wrong one. Sometimes, a player's responsibility is limited so much that it makes them look better than they are on a good team. But that if there's an injury, they would struggle to raise their game vs. another player who is more adaptable to step up.
* On offense, the PG is supposed to run the team however he and the coach see fit.
But on defense, the PG is the first line of defense. The longer he can keep the ball from getting in the paint, the greater the chance of the defensive team in getting a stop.
It's an equally important responsibility.
And Stockton helped the Jazz defense even more than Malone IMO.
Also, the Jazz were a great defensive team. Top 10 many of those years. From 1986-1989, they were # 1 three straight years (but lost to the Warriors in the 1st round two of the three years).
Stockton was a 5-time defensive team player, and was probably just as good some of those other years too. His defensive ability put him in the 99.7th percentile of PGs in that area, so he was that much better.
His shooting was similar. He didn't have to shoot a lot, but being a 50% shooter probably put him in the 97% percentile for PGs for shooting. It was a huge advantage, and all what contributed to his greatness. As I mentioned, I can recall countless other PGs either missing layups or long jumpers.
So while shooting wasn't his main role, the fact that he could is what also set him apart, from say a Brevin Knight type player (who could also get assists and steals but not shoot even 40%). And because he could shoot, it changed the way you could play him.
You can lay off of Brevin Knight or Andre Miller or Raymond Felton completely at times, but you wouldn't do that to Stockton or Nash or Price because they could also shoot. The defending team would then pick someone else to leave open rather than the PG, changing the schemes.