The Team Scouts

[Darrell Green Fan]

What I found interesting is unless I missed it SM didn't really change a lot of the scouts. One look at our draft history gave a lot of us the impression that our scouting department needed an upgrade. I was under the impression that SM was hired too late in the game to make any changes last year but I certainly looked for more of "his guys" to come in at some point.

But I'm not sure that has happened has it? Based on last year's draft could it be that our scouts were fine, it was the guy with the final call that caused the problems? Seems a bit hard to understand, the GM bases his board on the scout's reports right?

 

[Sharkinva]

What I found interesting is unless I missed it SM didn't really change a lot of the scouts. One look at our draft history gave a lot of us the impression that our scouting department needed an upgrade. I was under the impression that SM was hired too late in the game to make any changes last year but I certainly looked for more of "his guys" to come in at some point.

But I'm not sure that has happened has it? Based on last year's draft could it be that our scouts were fine, it was the guy with the final call that caused the problems? Seems a bit hard to understand, the GM bases his board on the scout's reports right?

When your GM is basing picks more off of wow factor than solid scouting, you can have a billion scouts and it wont matter.

The last four years before Scot ere basically dedicated to misguided logic. Last year and this year prove your point. The scouts may not have been the issue. But more the guy making the final call. And for all the talk, Im still wondering if that guy was Mike Shanahan even though that was the public party line.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

What I found interesting is unless I missed it SM didn't really change a lot of the scouts. One look at our draft history gave a lot of us the impression that our scouting department needed an upgrade. I was under the impression that SM was hired too late in the game to make any changes last year but I certainly looked for more of "his guys" to come in at some point.

But I'm not sure that has happened has it? Based on last year's draft could it be that our scouts were fine, it was the guy with the final call that caused the problems? Seems a bit hard to understand, the GM bases his board on the scout's reports right?

I am not sure if the current scouting dept is made up of some or most of the old regime. However - that is very possible. Just like any organization mgmt has to use the talent correctly and respect their opinions. They also need to be guided correctly so that they do their job in the most efficient manner. For example - SM would need to tell his scouts specifically what he is looking for in a future Redskin (e.g. guys from big name schools w/ good backgrounds). All of that makes life easier for the scouts.

It is not just a matter of who you select as a scout (or employee) it is how they are trained, managed & treated in general.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

When your GM is basing picks more off of wow factor than solid scouting, you can have a billion scouts and it wont matter.

The last four years before Scot ere basically dedicated to misguided logic. Last year and this year prove your point. The scouts may not have been the issue. But more the guy making the final call. And for all the talk, Im still wondering if that guy was Mike Shanahan even though that was the public party line.

If you are inferring that it was or could have been Snyder - OK. That would imply that Snyder didn't really have much respect for either Shanahan or Allen in this area. He pretty much moved out of the way for Gibbs & appears to be doing the same for SM. I believe that Snyder is learning his lesson (to a degree) & will mainly stay out of the way for a competent GM. HTTR

 

[Sharkinva]

If you are inferring that it was or could have been Snyder - OK. That would imply that Snyder didn't really have much respect for either Shanahan or Allen in this area. He pretty much moved out of the way for Gibbs & appears to be doing the same for SM. I believe that Snyder is learning his lesson (to a degree) & will mainly stay out of the way for a competent GM. HTTR

IM not implying, IM calling it straight out.

Notice that our biggest draft failures have been the first pick. Gibbs made some good picks, as did Shanahan.... once Danny was out of the room and busy showing off his new toy at the draft party, the grown folks were allowed to make picks like Reed, Cousins and a couple of others.

 

[Sportster 72]

Redskins have the same scouting department they had when Scot was hired.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

IM not implying, IM calling it straight out.

Notice that our biggest draft failures have been the first pick. Gibbs made some good picks, as did Shanahan.... once Danny was out of the room and busy showing off his new toy at the draft party, the grown folks were allowed to make picks like Reed, Cousins and a couple of others.

Well - again - I believe that this is not the case at this time due to Snyder's respect for SM. Could this change? sure. Hopefully - it stays in place for a very long time. I am impressed at the current approach rt now & see this team getting better & better over time (even though there will be bumps in the road). IMO - this is how you build a team - slowly with the goal being long term & not simply for the upcoming season.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

IM not implying, IM calling it straight out.

Notice that our biggest draft failures have been the first pick. Gibbs made some good picks, as did Shanahan.... once Danny was out of the room and busy showing off his new toy at the draft party, the grown folks were allowed to make picks like Reed, Cousins and a couple of others.

Actaully the problem has been after round 1 in recent years. I'm not going all the way back to Vinny/Danny. Our last 4 first rounders were Griff, Kerrigan, Trent and Rak. We won't go over Griffin any more, obviously a miss, but all but Kerrigan have been Pro Bowler players and Kerrigan is certanly close. There's still a lot of hate for Rak but there is no way you can call him a failed pick.

But this team has had a terrible time drafting and developing talent in the middle rounds. The fact that most of the misses never hooked up with other teams tells me it was a bad pick more than a development issue.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Actaully the problem has been after round 1 in recent years. I'm not going all the way back to Vinny/Danny. Our last 4 first rounders were Griff, Kerrigan, Trent and Rak. We won't go over Griffin any more, obviously a miss, but all but Kerrigan have been Pro Bowler players and Kerrigan is certanly close. There's still a lot of hate for Rak but there is no way you can call him a failed pick.

But this team has had a terrible time drafting and developing talent in the middle rounds. The fact that most of the misses never hooked up with other teams tells me it was a bad pick more than a development issue.

Yep - combined with a lack of respect for draft pick value (e.g. trading them away too often) this has resulted in a dearth of talent in the recent past. I advocate the Packers approach where there are hardly any free agents. I don't take issue with obtaining a once in a blue moon situation like Jackson or Norman (even though it is rolling the dice to a degree). I just don't like the approach where you try to build via 1-2 draft picks every year (tops) & lots of free agents.

You pointed out the situation well. Really - the discussion on the ex-Redskins making significant contributions elsewhere is a very short one.

 

[redskinsfan]

If you are inferring that it was or could have been Snyder - OK. That would imply that Snyder didn't really have much respect for either Shanahan or Allen in this area. He pretty much moved out of the way for Gibbs & appears to be doing the same for SM. I believe that Snyder is learning his lesson (to a degree) & will mainly stay out of the way for a competent GM. HTTR

Keep in mind that Shanny was wearing two hats as HC and GM, something historically that's been a terrible idea and one that held form with him. As for Allen, he's a businessman and gladhander. He should've had no role evaluating talent.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Keep in mind that Shanny was wearing two hats as HC and GM, something historically that's been a terrible idea and one that held form with him. As for Allen, he's a businessman and gladhander. He should've had no role evaluating talent.

Totally agree & have basically stated this many times. This is why it is also generally a bad idea to hire ex-SB coaches. They almost always want personnel related duties & rarely do a good job filling both roles. While Gibbs was probably the best Redskins coach in the 2000-2010 era he also had issues in his pseudo GM role & made questionable picks & trades. No doubt these two roles need to be completely separate & the critical GM role needs to be filled by someone who has experience almost exclusively in the front office area.