Still flogging Pete

[Redsfan1507]

Pete Rose must have made an impression on John Dowd. Somehow, they just dredged up some betting slip dated 1986 that suggests Pete bet on the Reds as a player-manager...that somehow escaped showing up until now, just before new commish reviews Pete's request for reinstatement... Dowd was quoted as saying this "new evidence" should close the book on Pete...sounded happy about that.

I guess I'm missing the point- gambling at all as a player or manager is the same crime, and after all, Pete did admit to betting on baseball. I might agree if the slip was dated 2015, but 1986 ?

At any rate, I don't believe Pete was getting reinstated anyway. I have little doubt he bet on baseball, although I do not believe he bet on the Reds to lose (making it worse if he could have helped blow a game), and I think it is sad that virtually all evidence was produced from scumbag criminals looking to make a deal- the definition of a low credibility source... I do also think it's a shame this is all being dredged up again days before the Reds hosted All-Star game, and makes me wonder if the animosity is directed at more than just Rose, but the Reds too.

I understand why gambling brings a ban- it compromises the integrity of the game. I'm not convinced MLB's ignoring PED's didnt compromise the game as much or more, however...but of course, that implicates MLB, the commissioner, owners, etc. MLB has the luxury of being above reproach, and treating every PED issue-as a player only issue. I find it hard to swallow that PED users still get their name on the HOF ballot, and Rose can't. Although the two aren't related, the both question integrity, and financial reprocussions of that. MLB didnt make any money on gambling, but it's obvious that PED's helped increase MLB revenue...that doesn't exactly bolster my confidence in MLB's integrity.

 

[jonvi]

There are so many ball players already in the HOF that are far from good people. Roids and cheating at every level is being committed daily.

Rose was one of the grittiest players in the game and should just be in the HOF already. But him not in the HOF isn't causing me to lose any sleep either.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Probably already PED users in the HOF- If Rickey Henderson wasn't using, he might have been the only guy on some of the teams ge played on (A's/Yankees) teams that wasn't. He sure has a long list of fellow teammates (Canseco,McGwire,Giambi,Palmeiro, Tejada to name a few) that were.

 

[eburg5000]

Always liked Pete. I grew up watching him play. No one has ever played harder over a long career than him. But I have to agree, while he should be in the HOF, They won't let him. Pete made a lot of enemies in high places, and those enemies will win out.

 

[JohnU]

Rose has become an economy. Few athletes in history can say as much.
That he is not in the Hall of Fame makes little or no difference to me. My memories of his game are enough.

 

[Redsfan1507]

IMO, unfortunately, MLB has no more integrity than any other multi billion dollar corporation, maybe less...because they have the luxury of policing themselves and are not subject to antitrust restrictions of other corporations.

Oddly, although Pete knowingly broke the rules by gambling on baseball, he had enough integrity not to bet against his team, assuring that he couldnt unfairly gain personally while harming his team or the game, by blowing a game and collecting the bet...in fact, Petes gambling ban has cost him tens of millions of dollars, and the ability to be employed in his only area of expertise...While MLB defrauded Billions in inflated revenue as a direct result of PED's, as did players, with the sole purpose of personal gain, and taking unfair advantage.

There is a lifetime ban for PED's now, but they have to be a three time test loser to get it...hardly probable, considering only one of the dozens of MLB's BioGenesis customers failed a MLB test (Ryan Braun-whos original failed test was overturned by MLB because of questionable chain of custody dispute)...I've long believed the "random" MLB testing doesnt look often at players that are good representatives of their product, and only inconvenient contracts, bad PR risks, and an occasional sacrificial no-name low impact player are slapped on the wrist with a single suspension...that doesn't reduce or cancel the balance of any contract they have in place after the suspension, even though it's value was based on performance enhanced by cheating.

You can forget integrity, It's Pete's fault he is banned, but he won't get consideration for reinstatement or on a Hall of Fame ballot, because there is simply no money in it for MLB.

Joe Jackson and the Black Sox took money from a gambler, to lose a World Series. It doesn't matter they didnt get paid, they intended to, and did intentionally lose. They should be banned. Ty Cobb admitted to blowing a game, not for money, but to manipulate who would win the AL pennant after his own team was eliminated...and no one knows if a gambler profited from that...but it wasnt gambling, so thats ok ? Rose's crime is a lesser offense, IMO, but it doesn't matter. It is what it is. A sad irony.

If MLB had invested a fraction of the effort they paid John Dowd to dig up circumstantial evidence and testimony of felons pursuing Rose for gambling, on the PED issue, Congress wouldn't have had to step in, 500 HR and 3,000 hits would still be rare HOF benchmarks, and the price of a MLB ticket, a Budweiser, Cable TV, among other things, would be much less expensive today. Half of MLB players would be banned. There would be fewer new stadiums, no 9 figure contracts, and the Reds could afford more than 2 All-Stars on their roster. That isn't close to as important to MLB, as Billions in inflated revenue and keeping Pete Rose off a Hall of Fame ballot...after all, even if they could shun him from working in the game, if he got on a ballot, he might get elected...and wouldn't that be embarrassing ?

 

[4thstreet]

Pete Rose must have made an impression on John Dowd. Somehow, they just dredged up some betting slip dated 1986 that suggests Pete bet on the Reds as a player-manager...that somehow escaped showing up until now, just before new commish reviews Pete's request for reinstatement... Dowd was quoted as saying this "new evidence" should close the book on Pete...sounded happy about that.

I guess I'm missing the point- gambling at all as a player or manager is the same crime, and after all, Pete did admit to betting on baseball. I might agree if the slip was dated 2015, but 1986 ?

At any rate, I don't believe Pete was getting reinstated anyway. I have little doubt he bet on baseball, although I do not believe he bet on the Reds to lose (making it worse if he could have helped blow a game), and I think it is sad that virtually all evidence was produced from scumbag criminals looking to make a deal- the definition of a low credibility source... I do also think it's a shame this is all being dredged up again days before the Reds hosted All-Star game, and makes me wonder if the animosity is directed at more than just Rose, but the Reds too.

I understand why gambling brings a ban- it compromises the integrity of the game. I'm not convinced MLB's ignoring PED's didnt compromise the game as much or more, however...but of course, that implicates MLB, the commissioner, owners, etc. MLB has the luxury of being above reproach, and treating every PED issue-as a player only issue. I find it hard to swallow that PED users still get their name on the HOF ballot, and Rose can't. Although the two aren't related, the both question integrity, and financial reprocussions of that. MLB didnt make any money on gambling, but it's obvious that PED's helped increase MLB revenue...that doesn't exactly bolster my confidence in MLB's integrity.

What about the statue of limitations?lol

Fucking ridiculous-unless they can prove he knowingly dictated the outcome of games-put him in the hall.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Oddly, although Pete knowingly broke the rules by gambling on baseball, he had enough integrity not to bet against his team, assuring that he couldnt unfairly gain personally while harming his team or the game, by blowing a game and collecting the bet...in fact, Petes gambling ban has cost him tens of millions of dollars, and the ability to be employed in his only area of expertise...While MLB defrauded Billions in inflated revenue as a direct result of PED's, as did players, with the sole purpose of personal gain, and taking unfair advantage.

We don't know this for sure....

ESPN.com: MLB - Dowd: Rose 'probably' bet against Reds while manager

Dowd years ago claimed that he came across leads that Rose did bet against his team, but while he was in the process of trying to verify them, Rose signed away his eligibility thus halting the investigation (so Dowd was never able to verify the validity of those leads).

 

[chico ruiz]

i think it's very very likely that pete bet on baseball throughout a large part of his career. pete is the perfect example of how lies can parlay and spin themselves into a intractable web. however, 1507's overarching theme, in full context, is more akin to this article:
Pete Rose still belongs in the Hall of Fame

 

[JohnU]

The curious part about baseball's morality code is that the original Landis ruling had nothing to do with morality. He was employed by the owners to insure that gambling did not conspire to upset the balance of power. There was nothing else connected to that, though Landis did eventually banish a few other players for egregious crimes, players you never heard of. One was involved in a stolen car ring.

The owners in Landis's time were also heavily influenced by the people who had only recently acquired Babe Ruth from Boston and were planning a giant ballpark in the Bronx. Dismantling the White Sox was not accidental. That's separate history, hardly connected to Pete Rose.

That does not, however, excuse Rose from having violated the only real basic premise that the Commissioner's Office had precedent to enforce. Eventually, there were other rulings, mostly dealing with Kuhn and C.O. Finley (Vida Blue story is related here) ... so in that respect, Rose has violated his own integrity by having participated.

Personally, I think Rose's mind works on two levels -- and the one we tend to admire is his unbridled enthusiasm and propensity for winning at baseball. I'd venture that if the vote were put to the players, they'd admit Rose to MLB by a wide margin. The writers who couldn't even install Johnny Bench unanimously would be committed to their arcane false morality and Rose would still not make the Hall.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I get gambling and it's danger. I don't believe Rose should be reinstated, to work in baseball. I do believe the HOF should revise their rules and allow all players on the ballot. That would put all ( * ) to rest, wouldn't it ? It's a farce that BWAA are voting members anyway,IMO... We're supposed to count on their integrity ? Right.

 

[Mondo Jay]

Hopefully Pete's punishment will continue to act as a strong deterrent to anyone considering gambling on baseball.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Except fantasy baseball, right ? As long as MLB gets paid their fee, in sure that would be ok..even though anyone can gamble virtually at will that way, free from testimony of criminal bookies that John Dowd holds in such high regard.

The rule is clear. What isn't so clear is that it's ok to bet on football or basketball or racing...isn't that cohorting with gamblers just like the bookies in baseball ? Anyone ever check on the gambling records of owners, or voting members of the HOF or employees of MLB ? Just saying. If there is a rule it needs to be universally enforced.