Reds Resurgence

[Redsfan1507]

Chapman is a lock for the ASG. Cueto might be, since Drunk Tony isn't picking them. Frazier is worthy but not a name people outside Cincinnati know well, even if hes volunteered for the HR derby. Votto is a recognizable name, but I don't recognize the guy in his uni lately. They can't pick them all, nor should they.

 

[HammerDown]

The Giants sweep in San Fran was pure gold.

 

[chico ruiz]

i don't visit this site very often anymore, and this thread reflects exactly why. knee-jerk reactionary fans annoy me. especially those claiming to be astutely older fans. they usually demonstrate a profound misunderstanding of the 162 game season, and what makes baseball unique. good old1507. you occasionally amused me. but, more often, your posts read as oblivious and societally dysfunctional. your self-important pop-psychology has run its course. do you really frequently muse about votto's mental state? if so, try playing more golf, or something. and, given the nature of the frail, insecure, and ever vacillating human emotional condition, do you ever wish you could go back in time and not push the 'post reply' button? you have no idea what you're talking about as it relates to votto's condition. you're taking cheap shots at a man who has been remarkably open about his struggles. it's that very openness that can help others in the future. you, on the other hand -even in this small venue- stymie improvement and advancement. i guess it's easier for you to compartmentalize people. there are millions of people who wish life were that easy. i'm sure you don't realize it, but you mock votto's philanthropic work with your thoughtless comments sir. it's ugly 1507, very ugly. i take it that you're devoid of the sensibilities and frailties that make us human; as well as the thoughtful, spiritual, and psychological respite we all must encounter in our short lifespans.

 

[eburg5000]

Chico, What in the world brought that rant on? Are you having a bad day or something.

 

[chico ruiz]

i'm having a great day mr. eburg. thanks for asking. i think -deep down- you know exactly what my previous post is referring to. it's cheap, cowardly, and high school bullying-like to call somebody a 'head case' who has had well documented problems of that variety. sometimes remaining silent about harmful, abusive, and -frankly- ignorant posts is not a option. if you have ever had a friend or family member who has suffered from a mental problem, and was subsequently derided in sophomoric fashion, you would understand.

 

[redsfan03]

The difference between Votto's situation and having a family member or friend with a metal condition is that Votto's a professional athlete. Like it or not, pro athletes (particularly ones who are paid $200 million) are viewed under a microscope by fans. Votto's getting paid a whole hell of a lot of money and ever since his first knee injury, he hasn't played close to the level that would warrant the money he's being paid. I respect Votto's philanthropic endeavors, but a baseball player is judged first and foremost by how well he produces on the diamond. Votto ain't cutting it. It's become painfully clear that the Reds bet their franchise on a mentally and physically fragile human being who has the tools but may never be able to utilize them like he did before the issues. He wasn't thrown that kind of money to walk and whiff his way through games. I think it's pretty telling of his performance that if you go on the video highlight section of the Reds homepage, there isn't one Votto highlight to be seen.

In today's sports world, a fan has every right to call out a player when he isn't producing at a level he should. Is that justified? Who knows, but it has undeniably become the norm in an instant gratification-obsessed society. Honestly, I find it kind of weird that you're taking it upon yourself to so staunchly defend a guy who (I would guess) you don't know personally in the least bit. I doubt Votto reads sports SportsHoopla, and even if he did, I doubt he would care about some random fan calling him a head case. If that bothers him, then he damn sure is one.

And the attack on 1507 was completely unwarranted. I believe I was the one who posted that Votto's a "head case" using that language, and I completely stand by that. He is a head case. I could think of a lot more derogatory terms to use than that one to describe someone with a compromised mental state. Lighten up a little, man. This board is pretty light on discussion as it is. No sense in attacking one of its most dedicated and knowledgeable members.

 

[chico ruiz]

thanks 03. with your 3 paragraphs (above) you -probably unwittingly- illustrate and amplify every single point i made. it doesn't matter how much money he makes 03. and you're not judging his performance on the field, in any informed way, by calling him names. is that how you call players out? is it the norm? it's not part of my norm, and that's exactly what i'm defending. you never know who is reading and replying on these boards 03. i know a couple of ex-reds who find those particular personal attacks on joey disgusting and way outside the realm of the game.

 

[Redsfan1507]

As Chico astutely picked up on, I'm not thin-skinned, so I got a chuckle out of his tirade.

Of course, not personally knowing Joey Votto, I assumed everyone knew my statements wre an opinion, not a clinical evaluation. I simply am a realist, not unsympathetic to the human condition, but aware that everyone has handicaps to overcome. People can chose to deal with them an go on being functional, contributing members of society, or they can depend on the charity of others. Anyone making double digit millions a year doesn't need the charity, and shouldn't expect a lot of sympathy either. In a world where true justice abounds, and a guy paid to be an MVP, that was reduced to average ability, would renegotiate back to his current worth, or better yet, donate 75% of his salary to benefit those similarly afflicted without the drug lord sized earnings...but we live in the real world, don't we ?

I've been a Votto fan, but the reality is, unless he shakes off whatever ails him, he's more burden than benefit to his team.

 

[eburg5000]

Back to talking about baseball, and some painful reality. The Reds "so far" are really stinking it up in SD

 

[Redsfan1507]

Games have been too late for me to watch, but I see the box scores. Like I said in a previous quote- I was happy to see the win streak, but unconvinced without taking a series in SD, beating the Brewers at home, and subsequent other things like winning a game or three against teams like the Cards and Braves- you know, perennial post season teams we can't seem to win often against.

There is a lot to be positive about so far, even with the injuries and below .500 record. There is still lots to be concerned about if post season or beyond is the goal. Personally, I believe in the power of positive thinking, but without extended positive results, might as well count on the Easter Bunny. I think there are causal factors for everything. I was pessimistic the Reds offense was good enough, without injuries and without deep slumps by key players. I was skeptical Cingrani's one pitch was the solution to finally having a LHSP in the rotation. Mesoraco, Simon, Hamilton and a few others have really overperfomed to most expectations, but it hasn't been enough to overcome the underperformance of Votto, Bruce, the middle bullpen, and that illusive LHSP. Latos return gave them a better rotation, but it didnt address how to get more lefty hitters out, or force the opposition to turn lineups around for a Reds lefty pitcher.

Figuring out how to maximize your roster is key in maximizing wins, IMO. I'm still frustrated with Mesoraco's defecto platoon, the 3 man inconsequential trifecta in LF, and Chapman being used for just 3 outs an outing, a couple or three days a week in a save situation, I'm sure Broxton could handle, and was paid for.

Much of this would have been better answered (or prepared) before or after the season. Hindsight isn't always 20:20 if you arent looking for lessons learned. A lot of suprizes are just ignored clues. No one else noticed Cingrani only had a fastball ? Didnt remember Chapman was the Reds best SP the last 2 spring trainings ? They really didnt see Latos, Marshall, Votto's ailments for what they were ? They believed Bernadinas ST more than his career record ?

Water under the bridge...unless you fall back in it and drown later.

You know what stops second guessing ? Winning. I'm waiting on that.

 

[JohnU]

All I have to contribute here is ....

 

[Redsfan1507]

I hear you. Not sure I've ever been less enthused with a 6-4 road trip...if they could have salvaged a single game from the Padres, I would have felt better. That's F'd up I suppose.

I didnt see the last series, but I've seen real monks that hit better than the Padres. Reds pitching must have blown chunks.

Better tune it up a notch on the homestand or they can probably kiss this season goodbye.

 

[eburg5000]

Shut out twice, and scored 2 runs another game. The pitching and defense wasn't that good either. I just think that the Reds thought all they had to do was show up, after sweeping the Giants.

 

[Redsfan1507]

They need to post the NLC standings in 6 ft. High letters in the clubhouse for these guys. They also need to be reminded that the only thing they can just show up for and win is humiliation. This team needs a little more pride and a little less patience.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Drunk Tony would have made up some vendetta where everyone would be ripping liners off infielders skulls. Sweet Lou would have tore up the 2b bag and assaulted a too happy player in the clubhouse. Billy Martin would have done it in the dugout.

It could be worse I guess. Dusty would have played Bernadina and Santiago five times, and pitched the bullpen 40 innings on a 4-6 road trip and asked for another hitter and a 2 year contract extension.

 

[JohnU]

The old saying about losing pennants in April will seem rather appropriate when you figure that a team that wins 1 game out of 3 only has to win 2 more to get a step ahead. The 3 they lost in San Diego when the Brewers were scuffling will turn out to the dealbreaker for this team. They have been in 2nd place, about 4 back, instead of 4th place.
Winning 2 of 3 from the Brewers is basically treading water right now because the Cardinals and the Parrots won't both lose the same day.
This season is effectively over. Pick your consolation prizes.
Rookie of the year.
Cy Young winner,
.500 record
Runnerup to the 2nd wild card.
Maybe take 2 of 3 from the Yankees.
Simon might win 20.

 

[eburg5000]

So many to choose from. I don't know which to take. 500 record would be nice, Any individual records will just cost Reds money or send the player into free agency, to test the market Hamilton still has 4 years, I don't know about Cueto and Simon.

 

[redsfan03]

So many to choose from. I don't know which to take. 500 record would be nice, Any individual records will just cost Reds money or send the player into free agency, to test the market Hamilton still has 4 years, I don't know about Cueto and Simon.

Cueto's as good as gone when his contract is up. If he keeps up his performance anywhere near how he's pitching right now, he'll demand a lot more than the Reds can afford. They've tied up too much money to Votto, Phillips, and Bailey.

Problem with .500 record is that's the definition of mediocrity. The realist in me says that I'd almost rather have a worse record to get a better draft position than to have a .500 record, which won't be enough for the playoffs. If you're going to miss the playoffs, miss hard. Just ask the Cubs.

I'd probably go with ROY of the options mentioned. I like Billy as a player and I think it would be cool for him to get recognized if he keeps it up through the end of the season.

 

[JohnU]

Frankly, a team that scores 6 runs in 5 games has much bigger problems than the roster for 2016.

 

[WvuDieHard]

Certainly a digress had occurred from the roar we saw a week ago. Votto is no doubt playing hurt. When he hurt his knee last year, I told everyone that the odds of him being the same person was low. That proved to be right--I know as I have had the same injury. My left leg is weak and atrophy has contributed to that. You can tell that Votto is favoring his weak side at the plate hence the decline in HR's and production. He simply does not have the power anymore. To me, Bruce is more of a liability than Votto as he is stuck in the middle of the lineup and rarely produces. When he does it is in bunches and not on a consistent basis. There is a kid in the minors named Winker---got a swing like Paul O'Neil but with more power. Bruce's days are numbered if continues on this path. As for losing 4 out of the last 5, the Reds ran into some really good pitching but these are the games you find a way to win with a little extra hustle and a timely basehit. The Reds simply dont put togethor clutch hits as they depend on pitching and defense to carry the day. Unfortunately, that wont be enough when you get 2 hits.