Phillies Rat Out Prospect to NCAA

[element1286]

Phillies Accused Ben Wetzler Of NCAA Rules Violations - BaseballAmerica.com

If this is true, can't see how Amaro makes it much longer there, especially cause they will be in rebuild mode soon enough.

And also another feather in the cap for the NCAA who are bigger scumbags than the Phillies management could dream of being.

 

[broncosmitty]

Has anyone done that to a college kid before? Screwing him out of a year of participation in his sport because he doesn't want to get on your sinking ship seems harsh to me. (The Phillip Fullmer school of taddling.)

 

[fordman84]

 

[element1286]

No idea, it's a scummy way to operate. I can't imagine it does the organization well in the long run.

 

[thecrow124]

One unidentified agent has already said he will not negotiate with them anymore.

I read earlier that it has happened before, but I don't remember the players name.

 

[sychmd]

they said the last time a team ratted out a player was 1992.

did appel have an agent.

it seems pretty clear, that if it is an NCAA rule, then the agents shouldn't be signing with anyone with eligibility. the agents sound like the scumbags.
if an agent is representing a player, as a GM, i would assume that player is not going back to college and now leverage is different.
seems like the players and agents want to play both ends.
they both should be reported and the agent should be disciplined as well.

not sure the intentions or the precedents, but hard to assume 85% (the number that was estimated by law) are officially represented by an agent.
is the 85%, total N(HS and college players), or seniors with no further eligibility, all college players, or HS players.

seems more to this story and the agents are playing it up altho they are the carpetbaggers with nothing to lose either way, and only money to make with the broken system of not reporting the cheaters staying in place.

 

[lhagen931]

RAJ is stupid as hell

 

[element1286]

they said the last time a team ratted out a player was 1992.

did appel have an agent.

it seems pretty clear, that if it is an NCAA rule, then the agents shouldn't be signing with anyone with eligibility. the agents sound like the scumbags.
if an agent is representing a player, as a GM, i would assume that player is not going back to college and now leverage is different.
seems like the players and agents want to play both ends.
they both should be reported and the agent should be disciplined as well.

not sure the intentions or the precedents, but hard to assume 85% (the number that was estimated by law) are officially represented by an agent.
is the 85%, total N(HS and college players), or seniors with no further eligibility, all college players, or HS players.

seems more to this story and the agents are playing it up altho they are the carpetbaggers with nothing to lose either way, and only money to make with the broken system of not reporting the cheaters staying in place.

From what I understand the players are allowed 'advisers' but not 'agents' under NCAA rules. In practice that means the team talks to the player directly, and the player either talks to the team with the agent present and gets advice immediately or they relay the info to the agent, and the agent relays advice back.

What the Phillies are charging is that the agent for these kids were talking directly to the team as representation for the player. While this is a No-no for the NCAA it is common practice in team/prospect/agent negotiations, it should be meaningless to the MLB team because there are no rules against it as far as the MLB is concerned. And thus the Phillies are tattling to the NCAA presumably to be vindictive.

 

[steelparrot]

This gives the Phillies nothing but downside... why do it?

Pure spite? They had to know this would leak out sooner or later.

 

[thecrow124]

From what I understand the players are allowed 'advisers' but not 'agents' under NCAA rules. In practice that means the team talks to the player directly, and the player either talks to the team with the agent present and gets advice immediately or they relay the info to the agent, and the agent relays advice back.

What the Phillies are charging is that the agent for these kids were talking directly to the team as representation for the player. While this is a No-no for the NCAA it is common practice in team/prospect/agent negotiations, it should be meaningless to the MLB team because there are no rules against it as far as the MLB is concerned. And thus the Phillies are tattling to the NCAA presumably to be vindictive.

What I really don't understand is the whole point of it. Wetzler was a 5th round draft pick as a college junior. The odds of him having an impactful career above AA were very slim.

I think we beat the Appel situation to death last year, yes he had Boras for an advisor, but when he wasn't drafted 1-1 by Houston he was not going to sign. Had nothing to do with who drafted him or where. The only team that had a shot to sign him was Houston, and it may have been a stretch even for them, he had other stuff in his life that he felt he needed to do. He is a good kid and if the Pirates had spoken to him or Boras predict, they would have known not to draft him, just like every other team before them.

 

[element1286]

What I really don't understand is the whole point of it. Wetzler was a 5th round draft pick as a college junior. The odds of him having an impactful career above AA were very slim.

I think we beat the Appel situation to death last year, yes he had Boras for an advisor, but when he wasn't drafted 1-1 by Houston he was not going to sign. Had nothing to do with who drafted him or where. The only team that had a shot to sign him was Houston, and it may have been a stretch even for them, he had other stuff in his life that he felt he needed to do. He is a good kid and if the Pirates had spoken to him or Boras predict, they would have known not to draft him, just like every other team before them.

Yeah, I don't get the Phillies angle.

As for Appel, yeah I hear that, but it's hard not to take who you think is BPA, I bet the FO thought it had some negotiating cred after the Pedro negotiations went fairly well.

 

[thecrow124]

Yeah, I don't get the Phillies angle.

As for Appel, yeah I hear that, but it's hard not to take who you think is BPA, I bet the FO thought it had some negotiating cred after the Pedro negotiations went fairly well.

I think Cole the previous year would be a better comp, but regardless, i just am not sure Appel ever intended to sign with anyone that year. I really believe the "signability" issue had nothing to do with money and everything to do with the fact that he and his family had a mission trip/ vacation planned for China, and that was his top priority. However, that rant of mine wasn't aimed at you, I didn't realize that responses only kept the last one.

I am also pretty sure you were being sarcastic about Pedro, sometimes it doesn't carry well in text, but I think I caught that one. If not I took it that way.

 

[thecrow124]

Yeah, I don't get the Phillies angle.

As for Appel, yeah I hear that, but it's hard not to take who you think is BPA, I bet the FO thought it had some negotiating cred after the Pedro negotiations went fairly well.

Now it comes out that they reported him in November????? Ruben is getting vindictive.

 

[element1286]

I think Cole the previous year would be a better comp, but regardless, i just am not sure Appel ever intended to sign with anyone that year. I really believe the "signability" issue had nothing to do with money and everything to do with the fact that he and his family had a mission trip/ vacation planned for China, and that was his top priority. However, that rant of mine wasn't aimed at you, I didn't realize that responses only kept the last one.

I am also pretty sure you were being sarcastic about Pedro, sometimes it doesn't carry well in text, but I think I caught that one. If not I took it that way.

I really wasn't being sarcastic, they got it done with Pedro when no one thought they would actually get him signed. But yea, Cole is a good comparison too.

I hadn't heard that angle about Appel and the mission trip. Possible the Pirates took the "can't talk about sign ability" rules seriously, cause I believe they were new that year, while other teams were flat out asking.

Anyway, I'd rather have Meadows than Appel, so no harm no foul. Think one thing we need to give the Pirates FO credit for is they have learned from some very public mistakes, and haven't made them again after an initial mistake.

 

[element1286]

Now it comes out that they reported him in November????? Ruben is getting vindictive.

Yeah, it'll be interesting how this happened, was it an org decision, or a 'rogue' scout/FO staffer.

 

[thecrow124]

I really wasn't being sarcastic, they got it done with Pedro when no one thought they would actually get him signed. But yea, Cole is a good comparison too.

I hadn't heard that angle about Appel and the mission trip. Possible the Pirates took the "can't talk about sign ability" rules seriously, cause I believe they were new that year, while other teams were flat out asking.

Anyway, I'd rather have Meadows than Appel, so no harm no foul. Think one thing we need to give the Pirates FO credit for is they have learned from some very public mistakes, and haven't made them again after an initial mistake.

I thought the entire Pedro situation was a debacle. Signing after midnight, then having to rework the deal to a major league co tract, and getting him signed 16 days later or something like that. So Pedro missed an entire year of baseball all so that he could force himself into being rushed to the major leagues and a quarter million more dollars. In so doing drawing my lifelong strong dislike for him in the process. The fact that he has not played up to his contract only draws more ire from me.

I am with you on Meadows, however, I am not sure I would feel the same way if it weren't for the emergence of Kingham and Glasnow. Both of whom I think will be better than Appel, and I am a fan of Appel. I still don't understand why Kingham is ranked so low in prospect rankings, had he gone to college he would have been a top 10 pick last year with his stuff and control, which typically would have him ranked around the top 50. Instead he sits at 80+. No big deal, just my opinion. But back to Meadows, all things being equal I would always take the hitter over the pitcher.