Oh boy.....

[filosofy29]

http://www.mercurynews.com/giants/ci_15821987

Look, I'm sure Timmay liked pitching to Bengie and all, but can a catcher really have that much sway on a pitchers command and loss in velocity? Obviously, if he's calling for the wrong pitches at the wrong times, that's definitely something to be looked at. However, in my eyes, Timmay can't even find the middle of the plate right now. Oh well, the guessing game continues I suppose.....

 

[calsnowskier]

SSS and all, but I would not be against trying Whiteside with Timmeh for a while.

Whatever works...

 

[gp956]

Giants update: Absence of Bengie Molina may be factor in Tim Lincecum's struggles with San Francisco - San Jose Mercury News

Look, I'm sure Timmay liked pitching to Bengie and all, but can a catcher really have that much sway on a pitchers command and loss in velocity? Obviously, if he's calling for the wrong pitches at the wrong times, that's definitely something to be looked at. However, in my eyes, Timmay can't even find the middle of the plate right now. Oh well, the guessing game continues I suppose.....

Looks like pure speculation. Or Baggs looking for Timmy to squash the obvious speculation that some fans are going to throw out there to explain Timmy's troubles. But then Timmy didn't completely dismiss it.

But I don't there is anyway that Timmy's troubles can be attributed to Buster. For Timmy not to unequivocally reject that hypothesis is really bad form.

 

[tzill]

Bottom line: Timmy starts pitching well again, all this useless speculation goes away. Tempest in a teapot IMO.

 

[gp956]

Looks like pure speculation. Or Baggs looking for Timmy to squash the obvious speculation that some fans are going to throw out there to explain Timmy's troubles. But then Timmy didn't completely dismiss it.

But I don't THINK there is ANY WAY that Timmy's troubles can be attributed to Buster. For Timmy not to unequivocally reject that hypothesis is really bad form.

LOL. Took me a few seconds to remember what I was trying to say there:p

Anyway...... good three dot lounge entry by Bruce Jenkins on Krukow's criticism of Buster:

"What happened there," Krukow said this morning in Philadelphia, "it was a 3-2 count, and Posey shook his head as Affeldt looked in for the sign. When a catcher does that, he's not shaking off a pitch. He just wants to have the pitcher shake HIS head -- like he's going to get inside the hitter's head. Well, 99 times out of 100, a fastball is coming. We (in the booth) figured Utley relayed the pitch to Ibanez. He'd been late on Affeldt's fastball the whole at-bat, but he jumped all over that one.

"What ticks me off, this stuff may work in high school, but never up here," Krukow said. "I'm not trying to single out Posey at all. You see this all over the big leagues. I see guys that are just outright cartoons back there. It's an aspect of the catching position that has eroded over the years, and it's costly."

3-dot lounge

 

[calsnowskier]

LOL. Took me a few seconds to remember what I was trying to say there:p

Anyway...... good three dot lounge entry by Bruce Jenkins on Krukow's criticism of Buster:

"What happened there," Krukow said this morning in Philadelphia, "it was a 3-2 count, and Posey shook his head as Affeldt looked in for the sign. When a catcher does that, he's not shaking off a pitch. He just wants to have the pitcher shake HIS head -- like he's going to get inside the hitter's head. Well, 99 times out of 100, a fastball is coming. We (in the booth) figured Utley relayed the pitch to Ibanez. He'd been late on Affeldt's fastball the whole at-bat, but he jumped all over that one.

"What ticks me off, this stuff may work in high school, but never up here," Krukow said. "I'm not trying to single out Posey at all. You see this all over the big leagues. I see guys that are just outright cartoons back there. It's an aspect of the catching position that has eroded over the years, and it's costly."

3-dot lounge

"You don't hear such things from other analysts, particularly the shameless "homers" befouling so many broadcast booths, but Krukow is a former catcher who plays it straight, and he can't stand to watch shoddy fundamentals."

Wha huh??

 

[filosofy29]

Bottom line: Timmy starts pitching well again, all this useless speculation goes away. Tempest in a teapot IMO.

Agreed, seems like people are looking for answers when things aren't going as planned.

Looks like pure speculation. Or Baggs looking for Timmy to squash the obvious speculation that some fans are going to throw out there to explain Timmy's troubles. But then Timmy didn't completely dismiss it.

But I don't there is anyway that Timmy's troubles can be attributed to Buster. For Timmy not to unequivocally reject that hypothesis is really bad form.

100% agreed GP. Whether it's true or false, that's not something that Timmay needs to air out on a public forum.

LOL. Took me a few seconds to remember what I was trying to say there:p

Anyway...... good three dot lounge entry by Bruce Jenkins on Krukow's criticism of Buster:

"What happened there," Krukow said this morning in Philadelphia, "it was a 3-2 count, and Posey shook his head as Affeldt looked in for the sign. When a catcher does that, he's not shaking off a pitch. He just wants to have the pitcher shake HIS head -- like he's going to get inside the hitter's head. Well, 99 times out of 100, a fastball is coming. We (in the booth) figured Utley relayed the pitch to Ibanez. He'd been late on Affeldt's fastball the whole at-bat, but he jumped all over that one.

"What ticks me off, this stuff may work in high school, but never up here," Krukow said. "I'm not trying to single out Posey at all. You see this all over the big leagues. I see guys that are just outright cartoons back there. It's an aspect of the catching position that has eroded over the years, and it's costly."

3-dot lounge

Not a bad article, I didn't know that Krukow used to catch as well unless it was a misprint (obviously knew the pitching part). One of the worst I've seen at "hitting the ground" for a curveball is Yorvit Torrealba. The guy taps his glove very indiscreetly whenever he wants a low outside curveball. On the flipside, Benjie was one of the worst offenders of the high fastball as he would pretty much move from the crouch to standing straight up before the pitch.

The thing I didn't like about the article, or at the very least the explanation of the 3-2 shake-off by Krukow. It may just be faulty understanding on my part, but if 99 times out of 100 it's going to be a fastball, why would the batter care one way or another if there was a shake-off by the pitcher or not. Most likely he was behind on the other fastballs because he wasn't prepared for them. Can't a little of the blame be rested upon Affeldt for falling into a 3-2 count? Seems to me that Ibanez just took advantage of the count leverage that he had worked into his favor.....

One thing I don't like in general is Krukow alerting the press especially right now. I'm not trying to give Buster a free ride here, he's got to learn his position better and their are going to be certain nuances here and there where he's behind the bell curve. However, this just doesn't seem to be the time or place to start wondering if Posey is the problem. I mean Baggarly was probably trying to dispel the notion with his piece, but then Timmay leaves a window open for interpretation.....then Krukow chimes in and reveals a mistake that doesn't seem like much of a mistake at all. I think it would have been better, in my humble opinion, to say something like that after a play that didn't hurt or at least when the team was doing better/in better spirits. Piling on to an already tough situation seems wrong to me. However, Krukow knows what goes on in a professional dugout WAY more than I can ever imagine. Regardless, thanks for the link gp.....I had kind of given up on the S.F. Chronicle and have been reading the SJ Merc almost exclusively now.

Am I reading into this wrongly gp?

 

[ElJimador]

Both of these items are a little unfair to Posey, I think. If you'll notice, the question posed by the headline of Baggerly's notebook item is whether Molina's absence has been a factor in Lincecum's struggles, but the question Lincecum is answering when he says "People will say that because it's true..." is whether he misses throwing to Molina. Those are entirely different questions. As to whether it's effected his performance, Lincecum says the bottom line is that he's had good and bad games with Molina and Posey and he doesn't want to use it as an excuse. Now granted, if he wanted to spike the theory he could have been a lot more forceful in rejecting it. But he didn't actually endorse it either, even though the item is written to make it appear he did.

As for Krukow's criticism, maybe Ibanez knew a fastball was coming because Affeldt kept trying to throw him a curve ball earlier in the AB and could never throw it for a strike. If a veteran hitter like Ibanez sees that the pitcher can't get his breaking pitch over what else is he going to look for in a 3-2 count except the fastball?

Posey is young and I'm sure there are lot of things he could do better. But I don't buy that he's responsible for either of those things.

 

[filosofy29]

Both of these items are a little unfair to Posey, I think. If you'll notice, the question posed by the headline of Baggerly's notebook item is whether Molina's absence has been a factor in Lincecum's struggles, but the question Lincecum is answering when he says "People will say that because it's true..." is whether he misses throwing to Molina. Those are entirely different questions. As to whether it's effected his performance, Lincecum says the bottom line is that he's had good and bad games with Molina and Posey and he doesn't want to use it as an excuse. Now granted, if he wanted to spike the theory he could have been a lot more forceful in rejecting it. But he didn't actually endorse it either, even though the item is written to make it appear he did.

As for Krukow's criticism, maybe Ibanez knew a fastball was coming because Affeldt kept trying to throw him a curve ball earlier in the AB and could never throw it for a strike. If a veteran hitter like Ibanez sees that the pitcher can't get his breaking pitch over what else is he going to look for in a 3-2 count except the fastball?

Posey is young and I'm sure there are lot of things he could do better. But I don't buy that he's responsible for either of those things.

Very good points ElJ. I do wish that Tim would have irrevocably stated that it is a complete non issue.....but you're right, he never endorsed the idea that Buster was a problem, nor that Benjie was the answer.

Agree 100% with your second and third paragraphs.

 

[gp956]

Agreed, seems like people are looking for answers when things aren't going as planned.



100% agreed GP. Whether it's true or false, that's not something that Timmay needs to air out on a public forum.



Not a bad article, I didn't know that Krukow used to catch as well unless it was a misprint (obviously knew the pitching part). One of the worst I've seen at "hitting the ground" for a curveball is Yorvit Torrealba. The guy taps his glove very indiscreetly whenever he wants a low outside curveball. On the flipside, Benjie was one of the worst offenders of the high fastball as he would pretty much move from the crouch to standing straight up before the pitch.

The thing I didn't like about the article, or at the very least the explanation of the 3-2 shake-off by Krukow. It may just be faulty understanding on my part, but if 99 times out of 100 it's going to be a fastball, why would the batter care one way or another if there was a shake-off by the pitcher or not. Most likely he was behind on the other fastballs because he wasn't prepared for them. Can't a little of the blame be rested upon Affeldt for falling into a 3-2 count? Seems to me that Ibanez just took advantage of the count leverage that he had worked into his favor.....

One thing I don't like in general is Krukow alerting the press especially right now. I'm not trying to give Buster a free ride here, he's got to learn his position better and their are going to be certain nuances here and there where he's behind the bell curve. However, this just doesn't seem to be the time or place to start wondering if Posey is the problem. I mean Baggarly was probably trying to dispel the notion with his piece, but then Timmay leaves a window open for interpretation.....then Krukow chimes in and reveals a mistake that doesn't seem like much of a mistake at all. I think it would have been better, in my humble opinion, to say something like that after a play that didn't hurt or at least when the team was doing better/in better spirits. Piling on to an already tough situation seems wrong to me. However, Krukow knows what goes on in a professional dugout WAY more than I can ever imagine. Regardless, thanks for the link gp.....I had kind of given up on the S.F. Chronicle and have been reading the SJ Merc almost exclusively now.

Am I reading into this wrongly gp?

Note: Krukow was a catcher/pitcher in college. Drafted as catcher, converted to pitcher in the minors.

Nothing wrong with your take on the situation, filo. And I do think Krukow was dissing Yorvit more than anyone else in that article. Plus, i don't think he was blaming Buster for how the AB went - just that specific "bush" move. What I think Krukow was saying in regards to the intent of the shake was that by having Affeldt appear to shake-off the pitch, the batter might think something other than a fastball was coming. Obviously, Krukow is saying it's a dumb thing to even try, and worthless with a guy at second. But, you know those are the things the veterans will take care of with Buster (although Molina would probably tell him it was a great thing to try).

And that's where I appreciate Krukow's perspective - he broadcasts like he's in the dugout. And while I appreciate that Krukow and Kuip give you the veterans eye view of the game, I can also see that it might seem like he's piling on at a bad time.

 

[filosofy29]

Note: Krukow was a catcher/pitcher in college. Drafted as catcher, converted to pitcher in the minors.

Nothing wrong with your take on the situation, filo. And I do think Krukow was dissing Yorvit more than anyone else in that article. Plus, i don't think he was blaming Buster for how the AB went - just that specific "bush" move. What I think Krukow was saying in regards to the intent of the shake was that by having Affeldt appear to shake-off the pitch, the batter might think something other than a fastball was coming. Obviously, Krukow is saying it's a dumb thing to even try, and worthless with a guy at second. But, you know those are the things the veterans will take care of with Buster (although Molina would probably tell him it was a great thing to try).

And that's where I appreciate Krukow's perspective - he broadcasts like he's in the dugout. And while I appreciate that Krukow and Kuip give you the veterans eye view of the game, I can also see that it might seem like he's piling on at a bad time.

I did not know that. That explains his unique perspective of knowing what goes on while behind the plate or up on the mound.

As per the bold above, that's where I went astray. I suppose I was reading more with my heart than my head .....I do really like Krukow's knowledge of the game and the in-depth analysis he gives. I just don't like the tireless cliches and quips he offers up nightly. Thanks for the clarification gp.

 

[ElJimador]

Very good points ElJ. I do wish that Tim would have irrevocably stated that it is a complete non issue.....but you're right, he never endorsed the idea that Buster was a problem, nor that Benjie was the answer.

Agree 100% with your second and third paragraphs.

Timmy needs to watch that. I know he's searching for answers right now but he's better off enlisting Posey's help in that than to be entertaining theories from the media about how maybe Posey is part of the problem. If it's an important relationship like he says, he should be more careful not to say anything to suggest he's throwing his catcher under the bus.