Minnesota #1? Why not?!

[Wamu]

Very few blueblood programs have won more than 2 natl titles in the 21st Century, ever since the NHL started poaching the best talent from the blue blood's rosters a bevy of non-blue blood programs have each taken a turn at winning one single solitary title with a roster chock full of experienced seniors who played together for all of their 4-5 years in the programs, with one exception, my alma mater UMD who has won a couple titles now.

And I love how you cut it off at 79, seeing that they also won in 76 and 74, meaning 5 titles in the last 50 years, DOES make them elite.

AND, you forget how they are

#1 in the # of Pro Hockey Hall of Famers they've produced,
#1 in the # of NHL players they've produced,
#1 in the # of NHL points those players have produced,
#1 in the # of US Hockey Hall of Famers the school has produced,
#1 in the # of US Olympic Hall of Fame hockey players the school has produced,
#1 in the # of US Olympic Gold Medal winning hockey players the school has produced, and this one isn't even close,
#1 in the # of US Olympic Medal winning hockey players the school has produced, and this one also isn't even close,
#1 in the # of US Olympic hockey players UMn has produced, and this one isn't even close, with twice as many produced as the 3rd best school,
#1 in the # of NCAA tourney wins they have, and
#1 in the # of NCAA tourney appearances they have.

If you only look at the last 50 years, only North Dakota & Wisconsin has more titles than Minnesota with 6, and two of UND's were won with a former Gopher as their coach and THREE of Wisconsin's were won with a former Gopher as their coach. lol

And Wisconsin hasn't gotten to very many Frozen Fours, so their just happening to have more titles in the last 50 years is irrelevant when ALL OTHER factors are taken into account. And UND hasn't done much of anything towards producing Olympic Medal winners. Something you refuse to do, take any other factor into account, unless you are discussing any other team in any other sport of course, lol. Because that is what chumps who can't win an argument any other way, do.




So over the last 50 years, UND is the only school that can come even close to comparing to UMn hockey when you look at ALL of the relevant factors, with # of titles and maybe # of Frozen Fours being the only factors that tilt in UND's favor. So are you trying to argue that only the team with the most titles in any given sport can be considered elite?

So OSU fb isn't even close to being elite then, right?

"Very few blueblood programs (FYI- the Gophers aren't a blueblood) have won more than 2 natl titles in the 21st Century"

I stopped reading after that.

Holy shit your insanity never stops. While what you said is true it's very strange on your part to limit the history of CFB to only the 21th century.

As far as the rest of your longwinded comment it can be summed up like this...

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

"Very few blueblood programs (FYI- the Gophers aren't a blueblood) have won more than 2 natl titles in the 21st Century"

I stopped reading after that.

Holy shit your insanity never stops. While what you said is true it's very strange on your part to limit the history of CFB to only the 21th century.

As far as the rest of your longwinded comment it can be summed up like this...

View attachment 308376

OMG you moron, AT LEAST read the entire first sentence before responding, then you'd have figured out I was referring to COLLEGE HOCKEY!!!

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

"Very few blueblood programs (FYI- the Gophers aren't a blueblood) have won more than 2 natl titles in the 21st Century"

I stopped reading after that.

Holy shit your insanity never stops. While what you said is true it's very strange on your part to limit the history of CFB to only the 21th century.

And Minnesota is absolutely a blue blood program in hockey. And still is.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

But you didn’t prove anything. What does 2008-18 have to do with your argument.

The argument is that Fleck has done just about as much as Dabo did his first couple of seasons at Clemson. All he has to do is win 10 games this year to keep pace with Dabo's start at Clemson.

Dabo's non-covid affected seasons 2-4 = 25-16, best win vs #19 Miami. 1-2 record in bowl games, including loss to unranked USF.
Fleck's non-covid affected seasons 2-4 = 27-12, best win vs #9 PSU. 3-0 record in bowl games, including win over #14 Auburn.

 

[Wamu]

OMG you moron, AT LEAST read the entire first sentence before responding, then you'd have figured out I was referring to COLLEGE HOCKEY!!!

College hockey?

What's wrong with you?

I'm talking about CFB. And once again instead of keeping it about football you gotta mention hockey. But since you went outta your way to mention hockey didn't Ohio State's women's hockey team beat some team from Minnesota for the national title?

You already think Minnesota hockey is the elite of the elite. Even though they haven't won it all since '03. And they don't have the most titles either. Denver University has more national titles (9) than the school you always try to over-pimp. Hell even tiny N. Dakota has more natty's (8) than your team (6).

But that's what you do. When you run outta nonsense to say about the football team, like they're on par with N.D. historically, you try to start talking about Minnesota hockey.

Just keep it to football. Nobody cares about all the other Minnesota Gophers stuff you talk about when the topic is CFB.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

College hockey?

What's wrong with you?

I'm talking about CFB. And once again instead of keeping it about football you gotta mention hockey. But since you went outta your way to mention hockey didn't Ohio State's women's hockey team beat some team from Minnesota for the national title?

You already think Minnesota hockey is the elite of the elite. Even though they haven't won it all since '03. And they don't have the most titles either. Denver University has more national titles (9) than the school you always try to over-pimp. Hell even tiny N. Dakota has more natty's (8) than your team (6).

But that's what you do. When you run outta nonsense to say about the football team, like they're on par with N.D. historically, you try to start talking about Minnesota hockey.

Just keep it to football. Nobody cares about all the other Minnesota Gophers stuff you talk about when the topic is CFB.

You brought up hockey, moron. Or didn't you notice that was a response to one of your posts?


And yes, Minnesota didn't win ANOTHER title last year to widen the gap between them and the #2 program all-time, instead a team led by a former Gopher won their very first title ever. UMn's got the most in all of women's college hockey history with 7.

 

[wazzu31]

The argument is that Fleck has done just about as much as Dabo did his first couple of seasons at Clemson. All he has to do is win 10 games this year to keep pace with Dabo's start at Clemson.

Dabo's non-covid affected seasons 2-4 = 25-16, best win vs #19 Miami. 1-2 record in bowl games, including loss to unranked USF.
Fleck's non-covid affected seasons 2-4 = 27-12, best win vs #9 PSU. 3-0 record in bowl games, including win over #14 Auburn.

I replied to you saying the B1G is a better conference than the ACC.

And you need to cool it on Fleck. A solid coach but he will be out of Minnesota before you guys even make a CCG.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

I replied to you saying the B1G is a better conference than the ACC.

And you need to cool it on Fleck. A solid coach but he will be out of Minnesota before you guys even make a CCG.

LOL, bs.

First, who would want him and his Row the Boat schtick and his including spirituality as one of the things he tries to help his players with?

Second, who would he want to leave Minnesota for? UMn's already paying him a Top 20 salary and it's very well known he'll get a raise if he wins a Div or Conf Title.


There is plenty of money in Minnesota dummy. Minnesota only has more Fortune 500 companies per capita than any other state and I don't even think it's close? All the people with money are waiting for is for Fleck to prove he can deliver, then their pocket books will open up. Minnesotans are very practical in this way, unlike some SEC football fans willing to throw good money away at programs and coaches in desperate hope that something good might eventually happen.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Nebraska won't want him. Neither would Bama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Texas A&M, Florida, OSU, Michigan, PSU, MSU, Clemson, Notre Dame, FSU, Miami, Oregon, USC, UCLA, Washington, OU, Okla St or Texas.

Who is left? Anyone not listed above wouldn't be able to draw him away from Minnesota. Heck most of the teams listed above wouldn't be able to, either, a few could, but won't want him.



what doesn't he have at Minnesota?

UMn has new practice facilities, UMn is the only fbs school in the state, UMn has money, Minnesota fans have money(more than most), Minnesota has lakes(more than all), he loves living on the lake. He likes the midwest, expectations are not too high like they could be at a place like Nebraska and would be if he took over at Michigan, Bama, Clemson, OSU, OU, USC, Georgia, Notre Dame, etc.. All he'd do at those places is most likely be an acceptable replacement, but it would be almost impossible to become a legend, with the exception of WI, Iowa or Nebraska, but he's not moving laterally to a Gopher rival school, lol, especially not to Iowa or Nebraska, as neither have a recruiting advantage over UMn, much less any lakes. All he has to do at Minnesota is win one single solitary Conf Title and he'd ascend to legendary status and become beloved by all Minnesotans except for the traitorous Badger fans that move here for the better jobs and a couple die-hard NDSU fans living out near the border of ND. If he turns that Conf Title into a Natl Title, he'd be elevated to God-like status.

If he only ever wins Division Titles, his job would be secure as long as he won lots of those and keeps the players graduating and the program scandal free as he's done a really good job of so far.

 

[Gator]

And "average" P5 team will poach him? LMMFGDAO@youGator!!! This is the least intelligent opinion I may have ever heard from someone I'd other expect better, but your bs in this thread has led me to believe you are a moron.

First of all, it's much easier for a team from Clemson's division to get a winning record, playing against each other.


Dude, I am FAR from the only cfb fan that believes the ACC is a weak conference.

Let's look at the "conference breakdown" at the bottom of each season's page at collegepollarchive dot com.

2008 - ACC - 1182 - 3 tms
2008 - B1G - 2621 - 4 tms

2009 - ACC - 2156 - 4 tms
2009 - B1G - 3937 - 4 tms

2010 - ACC - 1342 - 4 tms
2010 - B1G - 2971 - 3 tms

2011 - ACC - 671 - 3 tms
2011 - B1G - 2760 - 4 tms

2012 - ACC - 1811 - 2 tms
2012 - B1G - 2011 - 4 tms

2013 - ACC - 2768 - 3 tms
2013 - B1G - 2446 - 3 tms

2014 - ACC - 3082 - 4 tms
2014 - B1G - 3411 - 3 tms

2015 - ACC - 2657 - 3 tms
2015 - B1G - 4996 - 6 tms

2016 - ACC - 3830 - 5 tms
2016 - B1G - 4403 - 4 tms

2017 - ACC - 2419 - 4 tms
2017 - B1G - 4833 - 5 tms

2018 - ACC - 2208 - 2 tms
2018 - B1G - 3005 - 5 tms

2019 - ACC - 1487 - 1 tm
2019 - B1G - 5466 - 6 tms

2020 - ACC - 3473 - 4 tms
2020 - B1G - 3710 - 4 tms

2021 - ACC - 2194 - 4 tms
2021 - B1G - 3805 - 4 tms

totals - ACC - 31,280 cumulative points since 2008 & 46 Top 25 ranked teams during Dabo's tenure as head coach of Clemson,
totals - B1G - 50,375 cumulative points since 2008 & 59 Top 25 ranked teams during Dabo's tenure as head coach of Clemson.

So the B1G garnered 60+% more points over that time period than the ACC and put 28% more teams into the AP Top 25 polls over that time period.



So yeah, the ACC is a weaker conference compared to the B1G. This is common knowledge among cfb fans

I'll tell you what sport I'll accept the "cumulative points" on the AP Polls as "proof" that the B1G is a better conference than the ACC IF you will accepts these "cumulative points" as "proof that the SEC conference is 1.3787 TIMES better than the B1G conference.

69450/50375 = 1.3787!!! The SEC is 1.3787 TIMES better than the B1G
69450/41566 = 1.6712!!! The SEC is 1.6712 TIMES better than the Big 12
69450/33818 = 2.0536!!! The SEC is 2.0536 TIMES better than the PAC
69450/31280 = 2.2203!!! The SEC is 2.2203 TIMES better than the ACC

Not only that but using your logic the Mountain West Conference is 11532/7874 or 1.4646 TIMES better than Notre Dame. That would explain why ND "can't" get into any conference!!!

You just keep coming up with more and more ways to prove your stupidity!

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

I'll tell you what sport I'll accept the "cumulative points" on the AP Polls as "proof" that the B1G is a better conference than the ACC IF you will accepts these "cumulative points" as "proof that the SEC conference is 1.3787 TIMES better than the B1G conference.

69450/50375 = 1.3787!!! The SEC is 1.3787 TIMES better than the B1G
69450/41566 = 1.6712!!! The SEC is 1.6712 TIMES better than the Big 12
69450/33818 = 2.0536!!! The SEC is 2.0536 TIMES better than the PAC
69450/31280 = 2.2203!!! The SEC is 2.2203 TIMES better than the ACC

Not only that but using your logic the Mountain West Conference is 11532/7874 or 1.4646 TIMES better than Notre Dame. That would explain why ND "can't" get into any conference!!!

You just keep coming up with more and more ways to prove your stupidity!

Ok. To your first proposal. I'll accept that those cumulative points PROVE the B1G is better than the Big 12, the Pac and the ACC and... that the SEC is better than the B1G. What made you think that I would ever object to that?

Only problem is that when I was comparing the B1G up against the ACC and even the Pac, it was a pretty even comparison. Though # of teams being compared should be acknowledged and the points should be adjusted. My comparison of the B1G and the ACC was 14 vs 14. So no issue. Your DUMB example of the MWC being better than Notre Dame is not a even comparison, you'd have to divide those 11,532 points by the # of teams in the MWC, and then THAT # is what you would put up against the 7874 accumulated by Notre Dame. How do you not know this? Are you dumb?

 

[Gator]

Ok. To your first proposal. I'll accept that those cumulative points PROVE the B1G is better than the Big 12, the Pac and the ACC and... that the SEC is better than the B1G. What made you think that I would ever object to that?

Only problem is that when I was comparing the B1G up against the ACC and even the Pac, it was a pretty even comparison. Though # of teams being compared should be acknowledged and the points should be adjusted. My comparison of the B1G and the ACC was 14 vs 14. So no issue. Your DUMB example of the MWC being better than Notre Dame is not a even comparison, you'd have to divide those 11,532 points by the # of teams in the MWC, and then THAT # is what you would put up against the 7874 accumulated by Notre Dame. How do you not know this? Are you dumb?

Good, now you have proven that the Big 12 is a better conference than the B1G. That puts the B1G down to the #3 position among conferences. Keep up the good work! Come on, I sure you can prove the ACC is better than the B1G if you will just keep trying!!!

ACC 31280 / 14 = 2234.29
Pac-12 33818 / 12 = 2818.17
Big Ten 50375 / 14 = 3598.21
Big 12 41556 / 10 = 4155.60
SEC 69450 / 14 = 4960.71
Notre Dame 7874 / 1 =7874

These number can now be compared to the 7874 points for ND? So ND is better than any conference?

Are you sure you don't want to divide by the number of teams ranked?

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Good, now you have proven that the Big 12 is a better conference than the B1G. That puts the B1G down to the #3 position among conferences. Keep up the good work! Come on, I sure you can prove the ACC is better than the B1G if you will just keep trying!!!

ACC 31280 / 14 = 2234.29
Pac-12 33818 / 12 = 2818.17
Big Ten 50375 / 14 = 3598.21
Big 12 41556 / 10 = 4155.60
SEC 69450 / 14 = 4960.71
Notre Dame 7874 / 1 =7874

These number can now be compared to the 7874 points for ND? So ND is better than any conference?

Are you sure you don't want to divide by the number of teams ranked?

Dude, now you are just being a retard. OF COURSE Notre Dame is better than the AVERAGE score for any combined conference, are you a moron? You could do the same thing for Alabama and it's point total would be higher than any conference's AVERAGE. Are you really this much of an idiot?

And on a per team basis, it's very easy to believe that the Big 12, when you limit the scope to the AP poll era is better than the expanded B1G, as the additions of Maryland and Rutgers were not for the purpose of making the conference look better on a per team basis in comparison to other football conferences.

Why would you assume I would disagree with that?

And now I shouldn't EVER have to hear you try to claim the ACC is on par with the B1G, right? Same with the Pac. And I've NEVER claimed the B1G was better than the SEC, so we should be done with that, too, right?

 

[Gator]

Dude, now you are just being a retard. OF COURSE Notre Dame is better than the AVERAGE score for any combined conference, are you a moron? You could do the same thing for Alabama and it's point total would be higher than any conference's AVERAGE. Are you really this much of an idiot?

And on a per team basis, it's very easy to believe that the Big 12, when you limit the scope to the AP poll era is better than the expanded B1G, as the additions of Maryland and Rutgers were not for the purpose of making the conference look better on a per team basis in comparison to other football conferences.

Why would you assume I would disagree with that?

And now I shouldn't EVER have to hear you try to claim the ACC is on par with the B1G, right? Same with the Pac. And I've NEVER claimed the B1G was better than the SEC, so we should be done with that, too, right?

So you are agreeing that the B1G is a "middle of the pack" conference behind the SEC and Big 12 but ahead of the PAC and ACC? No waffling now.

This sounds like you are trying to weasel out again "And on a per team basis, it's very easy to believe that the Big 12, when you limit the scope to the AP poll era is better than the expanded B1G, as the additions of Maryland and Rutgers were not for the purpose of making the conference look better on a per team basis in comparison to other football conferences."

BTW, you are the only person I have ever seen use "cumulative points" as a measure of a teams strength from year to year.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

So you are agreeing that the B1G is a "middle of the pack" conference behind the SEC and Big 12 but ahead of the PAC and ACC? No waffling now.

This sounds like you are trying to weasel out again "And on a per team basis, it's very easy to believe that the Big 12, when you limit the scope to the AP poll era is better than the expanded B1G, as the additions of Maryland and Rutgers were not for the purpose of making the conference look better on a per team basis in comparison to other football conferences."

BTW, you are the only person I have ever seen use "cumulative points" as a measure of a teams strength from year to year.

www.collegepollarchive.com

click on any year, scroll down to the bottom of the page past the teams receiving votes and you can see not just another person but an entire website that keeps track of cumulative points.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

So you are agreeing that the B1G is a "middle of the pack" conference behind the SEC and Big 12 but ahead of the PAC and ACC? No waffling now.

This sounds like you are trying to weasel out again "And on a per team basis, it's very easy to believe that the Big 12, when you limit the scope to the AP poll era is better than the expanded B1G, as the additions of Maryland and Rutgers were not for the purpose of making the conference look better on a per team basis in comparison to other football conferences."

BTW, you are the only person I have ever seen use "cumulative points" as a measure of a teams strength from year to year.

EVERY SINGLE AP and Coaches poll you EVER look at is based upon "cumulative points", lol. Wow dude, but hey, thanks for making me laugh at your stupid ass.

 

[Jordan23]

NDSU Bison would probably have same stats against those teams lol.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

So you are agreeing that the B1G is a "middle of the pack" conference behind the SEC and Big 12 but ahead of the PAC and ACC? No waffling now.

Football is a dumb jock sport, for the most part, that southern bumpkins will always do better at.

Meanwhile Minnesota, all by itself, has produced more Nobel Prize winners than the entire 14 schools of the SEC combined, lol.


And a conference like The B1G added schools like Maryland and Rutgers because combined they will bring in BILLIONS in research dollars and the media footprints of the schools is what will help the B1G's new tv deal bring in tens of millions of dollars, so the fact the addition of those two schools did nothing positive in the way of football and only lowered the conference's per team average of everything having to do with football is meaningless in the grand scheme of things, and a schmuck conference like the Big 12 may not even exist a decade from now unless they survive by helping to knock out the Pac by taking in the crappy leftovers left behind after the B1G takes the pick of the litter.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

NDSU Bison would probably have same stats against those teams lol.

Not wanting to rip on NDSU, because it's impressive what they have done there, but to be honest, they treat their once a year or every other year game with an fbs team like their super bowl, and yes, occasionally pull off the upset, then only have to worry about the likes of South Dakota St to get into the playoffs each year. UMn is 7-0 vs SDSU and was 7-0 vs NDSU before making the mistake of scheduling them when UMn was good and NDSU not so much, and by the time the games came along, UMn started to struggle just as NDSU started to dominate the fcs.

But if NDSU had to play B1G opponents every week, week after week, they'd get worn down and beat up, and if they didn't succeed right away after moving up, it would be hard as hell to get enough top notch talent to want to go out and live in Fargo and they'd end up just like Nebraska ended up after moving to the B1G, as a cellar dweller.

 

[Gator]

The argument is that Fleck has done just about as much as Dabo did his first couple of seasons at Clemson. All he has to do is win 10 games this year to keep pace with Dabo's start at Clemson.

Dabo's non-covid affected seasons 2-4 = 25-16, best win vs #19 Miami. 1-2 record in bowl games, including loss to unranked USF.
Fleck's non-covid affected seasons 2-4 = 27-12, best win vs #9 PSU. 3-0 record in bowl games, including win over #14 Auburn.

Only in your imagination!
First, PJ has already coached 5 seasons at UM and is 35-23-0. In Dabo first 5 seasons at Clemson he was 40-21-0. In his 6th season Dabo was 11-2 or 51-23-0 after 6 seasons. To match Dabo after 6 seasons PJ would need to go 16-0. Since currently the max is 15-0 it is impossible for PJ to match Dabo!

Second thing, even in your imaginary world where PJ's two losing seasons "disappear", you forgot to mention these FIVE losses for PJ to opponents with losing records:
2018 Illinois +4-8
2018 Nebraska +4-8
2018 Maryland +5-7
2021 Illinois +5-7
2021 Bowling Green +4-8 (A G5 team with a losing record)!!!!!

IF we include ALL of PJ's games then we can find three more losses to teams with losing records
2017 Maryland +4-8
2020 Michigan +2-4
2020 Maryland +2-3

In Dabo's first 5 REAL seasons he lost ONCE in 61 games to a team with a losing record! ONCE!!!

Third, you are doing it again with the misleading crap. You mentioned PJ's 3 wins in Bowls (wins over
Minnesota +9-4 W over West Virginia +6-7
Minnesota +7-6 W over Georgia Tech +7-6
Minnesota +11-2 W over Auburn +9-4 ONLY WIN of note

Dabo's FIVE bowl opponents were against tougher competition
Clemson +9-5 W over Kentucky +7-6
Clemson +6-7 L to South Florida +8-5
Clemson +7-6 L to Nebraska +9-4
Clemson +10-4 L to West Virginia +10-3
Clemson +11-2 W over Louisiana State +10-3