mike zunino being called up

[dude82]

I'm not sure (hopefully) but he just needs to go get healthy somewhere else. This guy is the most frustrating player I've ever watched... imagine Jack Z and Wedge having to watch this guy.

I don't think they're just going to unceremoniously dump him before his contract is up. That's why I wondered if it was up at the end of the season. Even when his contract does expire, I don't necessarily think it'll be the end of his time here. They might wait it out to see if other teams are interested in his services and then sign him at a reduced price if there are no other takers. If another team does take a chance on him, then I'm sure the M's will wish him the best and move on from there. He's just had some of the worst luck with his health that I've ever seen a pro athlete have.

The biggest issue here is that the M's really don't have anybody who can play center that makes you say "Franklin who?". If they did, letting him go would be a bit easier. Michael Saunders may have shown enough last year to get himself another shot this year, and he's the closest thing to Guti we have defensively at the position, but his average has been plummeting for over a month now and he's had plenty of chances to stick over the years, so the odds of him being the long-term solution in center are long. Now, if Ackley can get his hitting back to where we know it can be and keep it there, and the M's continue to put him out in left and center like they've been doing, he could be the long-term solution out there. He probably won't provide the defense that Guti or even Saunders provides, but if he's performing well at the plate we should at least have a guy who we can run out there everyday and not worry about it.

Is there someone I'm forgetting? Peguero isn't a long-term solution and they just DFA'd Thames. Romero is a kid that they could use in the outfield, but he's someone that they could also try at first base if they don't bring Morales or Morse back next year. Julio Morban is on the 40-man roster, but he's only in AA right now and I doubt he makes the jump to the big leagues as early as next season.

If the in-house options aren't appealing or if the guys they want to use just aren't ready yet, they could look outside the organization at a one year rental type and then trade that guy at the deadline should a better in-house option become available by July of next year. That's probably what they'll end up doing for at least one of the outfield spots next year anyway, even if it isn't in center.

We'll see I guess.

 

[unlvmariners]

I think there are a couple of guys in the organization that can be solid CF options. The problem is I think they are still a season or maybe 2 away still. Abe Almonte is another guy that has been having a very good season in Tacoma so far this year. The fear I have with him is he hasn't hit like he is hitting right now in AAA at any other level. I question if he is just hot right now and if he will end up cooling off as the season continues.

Jacoby Ellsbury is a free agent after this season I think. Might be expensive to get him but it might be worth taking a shot on him.

I think Guti has an option for the 2014 season not sure though.

 

[dude82]

I think there are a couple of guys in the organization that can be solid CF options. The problem is I think they are still a season or maybe 2 away still. Abe Almonte is another guy that has been having a very good season in Tacoma so far this year. The fear I have with him is he hasn't hit like he is hitting right now in AAA at any other level. I question if he is just hot right now and if he will end up cooling off as the season continues.

Jacoby Ellsbury is a free agent after this season I think. Might be expensive to get him but it might be worth taking a shot on him.

I think Guti has an option for the 2014 season not sure though.

Almonte... that's who I forgot. I think he's one of those guys that we could put in the "not ready yet" column for the reason that you gave. I'm sure they'll give him a look in September if he's still hitting well by then, but I would still like to see him at least start next year in Tacoma even if he does finish this year hitting well. I mentioned Ackley and I think it's an intriguing idea. He's got the speed for the outfield and he played there in college, so it's not totally foreign to him. I do think that they'll keep him down in Tacoma until September now just to make sure that he's made the adjustments at the plate that they sent him down there to make and to make sure that he feels comfortable in the outfield again before bringing him back. Maybe he sticks more in left than in center, but I can see him in the outfield somewhere next year if all goes well the rest of this year.

I haven't seen the presumed free agent list for the coming off-season, so I don't know who is on it, but Ellsbury will probably be on their radar if they decide to go the free agent route.

 

[wazzu31]

Almonte... that's who I forgot. I think he's one of those guys that we could put in the "not ready yet" column for the reason that you gave. I'm sure they'll give him a look in September if he's still hitting well by then, but I would still like to see him at least start next year in Tacoma even if he does finish this year hitting well. I mentioned Ackley and I think it's an intriguing idea. He's got the speed for the outfield and he played there in college, so it's not totally foreign to him. I do think that they'll keep him down in Tacoma until September now just to make sure that he's made the adjustments at the plate that they sent him down there to make and to make sure that he feels comfortable in the outfield again before bringing him back. Maybe he sticks more in left than in center, but I can see him in the outfield somewhere next year if all goes well the rest of this year.

I haven't seen the presumed free agent list for the coming off-season, so I don't know who is on it, but Ellsbury will probably be on their radar if they decide to go the free agent route.

Of all of the young guys I think Jack's not ready guys have worked much better than prize gets. IMO, Carp, Zunino, Franklin and Pineda were all "not ready" but actually have shown they can hang.

 

[unlvmariners]

Of all of the young guys I think Jack's not ready guys have worked much better than prize gets. IMO, Carp, Zunino, Franklin and Pineda were all "not ready" but actually have shown they can hang.

I don't think Zunino has shown he can "hang" yet. I still don't think he is ready offensively.

In my opinion Franklin showed he was ready for the next step, the majors where the next step in his progression. I just hope that he can keep it up and continue to get better.

Speaking of Pineda I think he has finally made some starts for the Yankees org.

 

[wazzu31]

I don't think Zunino has shown he can "hang" yet. I still don't think he is ready offensively.

In my opinion Franklin showed he was ready for the next step, the majors where the next step in his progression. I just hope that he can keep it up and continue to get better.

Speaking of Pineda I think he has finally made some starts for the Yankees org.

Think Zunino has shown he can hang much more than the sure fire thing in Jack's boy Montero? I guess it's where I'm at as a fan where I'd rather have a bunch of young guys with no big pub as opposed to all these wait until they get here, they are all stars.

Watching Franklin I personally did not think he was ready, but I also thought Ackley was a horrible 2B in Tacoma.

 

[dude82]

Think Zunino has shown he can hang much more than the sure fire thing in Jack's boy Montero? I guess it's where I'm at as a fan where I'd rather have a bunch of young guys with no big pub as opposed to all these wait until they get here, they are all stars.

Watching Franklin I personally did not think he was ready, but I also thought Ackley was a horrible 2B in Tacoma.

It's easy to forget that Montero finished last season hitting .260 with 15 homeruns in 135 games. His defense was atrocious, but I think most people expected that when we got him. Point being... the thought after last season was that Montero should have been able to "hang" at the major league level offensively, even though it probably meant a permanent move to DH or first base at some point. Where Zunino differs from Montero is on the defensive side of things. He's thus far shown himself to be a very competent catcher, both in terms of his ability to block pitches/throw runners out and his ability to call a game/frame pitches. I remember hearing the broadcasters during his first few starts rave about Zunino's defense. I don't think they ever did that with Montero.

Where I think the M's made a mistake with Montero was in not having him make that transition to DH/first base in the off-season, instead having him put his focus on a position he wasn't going to be playing long-term and on another part of his game, running, that was never going to be improvable to the point that spending so much time and effort on it would be worth it. They should have just had him focus on his hitting and continuing to do the things that made him such a hot prospect that the M's tried to trade for him twice and successfully trade for him once. I think they cluttered his head with too much stuff he wasn't gonna need long-term and it messed up the one thing he did need to stay at the big league level. Now he's hurt and embroiled in a PED controversy and, with the promotions of Zunino and Sucre (once he gets back from the DL) and the prospect of a multi-year deal with Morales to presumably be the DH, Montero is quickly becoming the odd man out, when he was considered part of the future not even a year ago.

 

[wazzu31]

It's easy to forget that Montero finished last season hitting .260 with 15 homeruns in 135 games. His defense was atrocious, but I think most people expected that when we got him. Point being... the thought after last season was that Montero should have been able to "hang" at the major league level offensively, even though it probably meant a permanent move to DH or first base at some point. Where Zunino differs from Montero is on the defensive side of things. He's thus far shown himself to be a very competent catcher, both in terms of his ability to block pitches/throw runners out and his ability to call a game/frame pitches. I remember hearing the broadcasters during his first few starts rave about Zunino's defense. I don't think they ever did that with Montero.

Where I think the M's made a mistake with Montero was in not having him make that transition to DH/first base in the off-season, instead having him put his focus on a position he wasn't going to be playing long-term and on another part of his game, running, that was never going to be improvable to the point that spending so much time and effort on it would be worth it. They should have just had him focus on his hitting and continuing to do the things that made him such a hot prospect that the M's tried to trade for him twice and successfully trade for him once. I think they cluttered his head with too much stuff he wasn't gonna need long-term and it messed up the one thing he did need to stay at the big league level. Now he's hurt and embroiled in a PED controversy and, with the promotions of Zunino and Sucre (once he gets back from the DL) and the prospect of a multi-year deal with Morales to presumably be the DH, Montero is quickly becoming the odd man out, when he was considered part of the future not even a year ago.

I'd touche you for those numbers if it were from a guy who was a semi decent catcher. A guy so bad should have team leading numbers..but I hated the trade, I dislike the guy as a player so I am bias.

 

[dude82]

I'd touche you for those numbers if it were from a guy who was a semi decent catcher. A guy so bad should have team leading numbers..but I hated the trade, I dislike the guy as a player so I am bias.

I know that this offense has been pretty anemic the past few years, but asking a young player, particularly a young catcher, to lead the team in multiple offensive categories when the team is still intent on making him into a full-time catcher when his future was clearly not at that position, is asking a lot. As I said, I'm convinced that it was the team's insistence on making him into the catcher of the future (probably in an effort to try to justify the trade to everyone who thought he wouldn't and shouldn't be a catcher) and everything that comes with that that kept him from performing better offensively last year; and their continued insistence on going in that direction with him in the off-season and early part of this regular season kept his focus off of his hitting, where it should have been, and put it squarely on improving defensively at a position for which he was not the future.

Normally, I'd say that he's still young and they can still salvage this, but with this whole PED scandal swirling around him, possibly keeping him out of games when he recovers from his injury and his recent injury keeping him out of games now, it might be a couple of years before he even makes it back to the majors, let alone have an opportunity to lead the team in any offensive categories.

 

[unlvmariners]

Think Zunino has shown he can hang much more than the sure fire thing in Jack's boy Montero? I guess it's where I'm at as a fan where I'd rather have a bunch of young guys with no big pub as opposed to all these wait until they get here, they are all stars.

Watching Franklin I personally did not think he was ready, but I also thought Ackley was a horrible 2B in Tacoma.

I agree that Zunino can hang defensively, I do not agree that he is currently showing he can hang offensively. That being said I think Zunino will be just fine in the future both defensively and at the plate, I think Zunino is a student of the game and will learn to make adjustments as they come throughout his career.

Not trying to defend Montero because he has been a massive let down this season. Last year I was completely fine with his numbers and thought he did much better than he was given credit for, remember that he had the same batting avg as Kyle Seager last year. The thing is Zunino shouldn't be getting compared to other players right now, he is either ready to hit at the ML level or he isn't. If he isn't I would prefer have him in AAA until he can show that he can hit AAA.

Like dude said, Montero is looking like the odd man out right now. He might have a hard time finding his way back to a Mariner uniform.

 

[dude82]

I agree that Zunino can hang defensively, I do not agree that he is currently showing he can hang offensively. That being said I think Zunino will be just fine in the future both defensively and at the plate, I think Zunino is a student of the game and will learn to make adjustments as they come throughout his career.

Not trying to defend Montero because he has been a massive let down this season. Last year I was completely fine with his numbers and thought he did much better than he was given credit for, remember that he had the same batting avg as Kyle Seager last year. The thing is Zunino shouldn't be getting compared to other players right now, he is either ready to hit at the ML level or he isn't. If he isn't I would prefer have him in AAA until he can show that he can hit AAA.

Like dude said, Montero is looking like the odd man out right now. He might have a hard time finding his way back to a Mariner uniform.

I do still have some hope for Montero, assuming the PED thing doesn't do too much damage, but we have yet to see the fallout from that and until we do, who knows when he'll be available to even be in AAA again to get his swing back in order. If he is suspended and that suspension doesn't begin until after he comes back from his injury (and we don't even know when that'll be), he'll could be out for the rest of this season and who knows how much of next season. Obviously it would be preferable if he doesn't get suspended at all, but from the sound of it MLB is about ready to drop the hammer on the players involved in this latest PED scandal.

There's a process that occurs when a player tests positive for PEDs and it often ends in either a 50 game, 100 game or 1 year suspension if I remember correctly, but I have no idea what the process is for guys who don't test positive, but whose names show up in documents indicating that they were either treated with, sold or given PEDs or were simply attached to a clinic that did those things for other people. Does it get treated as if the player tested positive or is there a completely different set of rules or can MLB hand down punishments as they see fit? I have no idea. My hope is that they found that Montero did nothing wrong and that he won't be suspended, but my gut tells me that he will be suspended. For how long, I don't know.

 

[Banned 10x]

Brad Miller on his way up, probably starting tonight and the starter for the rest of the season. I'm pretty excited to see this kid play, I'm not expecting a ton but it's better to watch this kid learn to hit ML pitching rather than watching Ryan hitting .200

Mariners call up shortstop prospect Brad Miller | HardballTalk

 

[dude82]

Brad Miller on his way up, probably starting tonight and the starter for the rest of the season. I'm pretty excited to see this kid play, I'm not expecting a ton but it's better to watch this kid learn to hit ML pitching rather than watching Ryan hitting .200

Mariners call up shortstop prospect Brad Miller | HardballTalk

Well Nick Franklin has been a pleasant surprise. Maybe this kid will be too (although when you consider he's hitting .356 and on a 20+ game hitting streak, I don't know how much of a surprise it would be to see him do well).

 

[unlvmariners]

Brad Miller on his way up, probably starting tonight and the starter for the rest of the season. I'm pretty excited to see this kid play, I'm not expecting a ton but it's better to watch this kid learn to hit ML pitching rather than watching Ryan hitting .200

Mariners call up shortstop prospect Brad Miller | HardballTalk

Does anyone know what the 40 man roster move will be? I am assuming Triunfel gets sent down but I wonder who will be removed from the 40 man.

 

[Banned 10x]

Does anyone know what the 40 man roster move will be? I am assuming Triunfel gets sent down but I wonder who will be removed from the 40 man.

I haven't heard anything but it wouldn't surprise me if they DFA Ryan and let Truinfel back up Miller

 

[unlvmariners]

I haven't heard anything but it wouldn't surprise me if they DFA Ryan and let Truinfel back up Miller

I didn't even think about that, i guess that is a possibility.

 

[unlvmariners]

I haven't heard anything but it wouldn't surprise me if they DFA Ryan and let Truinfel back up Miller

After thinking about it and looking at the 40 man roster. I think they would want Ryan to back up Miller. I think miller can learn a lot from Ryan. Miller is not good at defense so it would make sense to me that Miller pick up a few things from Ryan. I am also thinking that the 40 man roster move will be a pitcher.

 

[wazzu31]

I agree that Zunino can hang defensively, I do not agree that he is currently showing he can hang offensively. That being said I think Zunino will be just fine in the future both defensively and at the plate, I think Zunino is a student of the game and will learn to make adjustments as they come throughout his career.

Not trying to defend Montero because he has been a massive let down this season. Last year I was completely fine with his numbers and thought he did much better than he was given credit for, remember that he had the same batting avg as Kyle Seager last year. The thing is Zunino shouldn't be getting compared to other players right now, he is either ready to hit at the ML level or he isn't. If he isn't I would prefer have him in AAA until he can show that he can hit AAA.

Like dude said, Montero is looking like the odd man out right now. He might have a hard time finding his way back to a Mariner uniform.

Which is the huge difference in that position, if you suck as a catcher you better be wordly offensively. If you are a good catcher, your numbers do not have to be huge. I'm not asking for either to be a Carlton Fisk of Johnny Bench.

I'd prefer Zunino to be in AAA too but I'd rather him be up in the big leagues learning that having a backup AAA catcher playing, some scrub off the streets or an older guy who can't catch 4 days a week anymore

 

[unlvmariners]

Which is the huge difference in that position, if you suck as a catcher you better be wordly offensively. If you are a good catcher, your numbers do not have to be huge. I'm not asking for either to be a Carlton Fisk of Johnny Bench.

I'd prefer Zunino to be in AAA too but I'd rather him be up in the big leagues learning that having a backup AAA catcher playing, some scrub off the streets or an older guy who can't catch 4 days a week anymore

I don't disagree with you. The problem I have with the situation is what is expected of certain players and or prospects. If all Zunino can do is catch well and hit like crap I think that is a failure. Zunino is not only expected to be a great catcher but also be a good offensive catcher. If a player isn't expected to hit much but be a great catcher then that is a different story. But that is not the case with Zunino. Sucre isn't expected to hit, anything he does offensively is a bonus. Does that make sense???

It is simply an unfortunate situation. It would have been ideal to hold off on the Zunino call up until the perfect time but injuries really hurt us in that situation.

 

[unlvmariners]

Does anyone know what the 40 man roster move will be? I am assuming Triunfel gets sent down but I wonder who will be removed from the 40 man.

Liddi is the one that got DFA'd. In case anyone hasn't heard.