Latos interview

[JohnU]

Good stuff from the big righthander. Some interesting thoughts on the med staff, Votto and the lack of leadership.


ROSENTHAL INTERVIEWS LATOS

 

[JohnU]

Skip Schumaker on Mat Latos: "I think it was an addition by subtraction...I think a lot of us will be happy to see him in Miami."

 

[JohnU]

Following the thread on the Latos deal:

Grandal and Alonso ... Grandal is in LA now, Alonso is about a league-average hitter, hurt part of the time.
Boxberger? Meh ... another relief pitcher. Volquez has become the pitcher we thought he would be.

Latos for Desclafani.

Schumaker says he's happy to see Latos go. Price and Walt are down on Latos, who essentially claimed he was dealt because he didn't fit.

Maybe others will weigh in.

So does Desclafani help the Reds?

Funny how trades work out.

 

[moxie]

Never been a fan of his, but that was a good read.

 

[JohnU]

Evidently Latos didn't make many friends with that.

 

[moxie]

Evidently Latos didn't make many friends with that.

Yeah, he's pretty outspoken, which, if he was on my favorite team, I might be more amenable to, but he irritates me for now - gotta throw that part in there because you never know where these guys will end up. However, that part where he said, "There could have been a lot worse places I could have been traded to." ? I'm like 99.9% sure San Francisco is in that group!

 

[JohnU]

I was not a fan of the Latos trade in the first place but he is a quality pitcher and became a pretty good one after Price taught him to stop tipping his pitches. But he was a head case of sorts in San Diego that most folks believed would diminish with maturity. I think partly it did. He might be an OK fit in Miami. The Reds needed to deal somebody and I got the feeling reading between the lines that Latos wasn't real popular with Price.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Sounds like what I imagined- after Arroyo and Rolen left, Dusty's lack of urgency allowed all those guys to lay around not giving a shit. Talk all you want about "veteran leadership" from players- a real manager leads and drives his team to be prepared- or they don't. Dusty didnt. Price ? Dunno- guess we'll have to wait on an interview with the next guy to leave to find out.

Reds med staff- also as I figured- they don't have a clue, just want to get them out on the field. It sounds like Latos and Bruce complied, with diminished results and Votto didnt. Not sure it's best for the player or for baseball, but I tend to believe if Latos and Bruce can play, with whatever level they're at, with the same maniscus injury Vitto had, and Votto won't, it looks bad on Votto. Not to say the med staff was right, but it sure sounds like Votto didnt want to play and hit .255, regardless of his replacement hitting .220. Maybe they were more cautious with a quarter billion investment in Votto, or they're still content letting stats do whatever they want, but push lesser players around.

I think the Reds management fuck up plenty on their own. Re-do's on every surgery, Chapman closing instead of starting, Dusty taking a team nap in first years of his 2 year contracts, signing platoon hacks to 2 year deals, hitting BP in the 4 hole, not asking utility infielders to bunt leadoff doubles over, getting 2 dozen runners thrown out at home, never hitting oppage against the shift, etc.

Players make a lot of money. I don't think it's asking too much for them to be in the dugout when they are injured, and playing when they can. I also expect managers to lead, and coaches to coach. If they're going to spend $100M a year on payroll fans have to pay for, I'd like them not to waste anymore than they have to. A little honesty goes a long way.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Latos probably didnt fit in. He was a tough kid with a temper and an unashamed voice. Todd Frazier better watch out if that is a disqualifying attribute.

Personally, if you gotta lose, to hell with class...I admire bad losers. Guys who go down fighting dirty, instead of surrendering without a scratch. This team loses too easily for me. It isn't rec league for kiddies- when you get paid, it's about winning.

Most of the players are in their 20's- if you have or had kids that age, ask how hard they would have worked with a few million in salary, a 4 hour work day, 6 months a year, and no pressure to do more. MLB Managers should be part mentor, part drill sergeant. The Reds are largely unprepared to win. If these guys were soldiers instead of ballplayers, not many of them would make it back from battle.

 

[JohnU]

The latest from the Reds is to take potshots at Latos for having exposed the flaws in the clubhouse.
Latos was answering questions in an interview, not offering comments off the cuff.
What bothers me is that the Reds are being very defensive about this. Some of what Latos said was right on the obvious -- and the part about clubhouse chemistry might be a bit sensitive -- but my granny always said "if the shoe fits, wear it."

 

[Hit-n-Run]

From what I've seen in print I think there's some truth in some of Latos' statements. But I also think there's some hurt feelings type quotes in there as well.

Homer Bailey got $100M and he got traded and lost his case in arbitration. He's been inured three times in the past twelve months and it's the Reds' fault? The guy blew out his meniscus tossing a baseball. He had bone chips and elbow bruise from throwing a baseball. Throwing a baseball is his job, it comes with inherent risk of injury. The guy bitched about going and or being extended in rehab and now he claims he was rushed.

The guy has talent, but his class hasn't caught up to it yet.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Where there is smoke, sometimes there is fire. I'm sure there is some sour grapes in Latos' comments, but the clubhouse comments appear to have merit, and the Reds med staff hasn't had a tremendous amount of success with surgeries solving issues, for whatever reasons. It's not advised to expose clubhouse skeletons, and suicide to do it if you are still on the team. Aaron Harang and Jim Edmonds also made soft spoken criticisms of the Reds med staff after they left. Griffey just refused to comment.

Brandon Phillips has made a few ( previous )comments about clubhouse bias in favor of stars, and different rules for lesser players, but I always wondered how much he contributed or aggrivated any such situation. Generally, players say the Reds are a good group of guys with good chemistry- but that's the cliche they are expected to say. Several comments about differences in "going about your business" before and after Rolen make it obvious to me there is a routine lack of Reds clubhouse work ethic without such a presence.

Put 25 guys living together for 6 months, and it's rare when they don't have a few issues with each other. There are always injuries, most un-publicized. There are rappers and hillbillies, born agains and thugs, jokesters and bipolars. a couple different languages and 15 different accents. Typically, there are a few loners, a couple segregated groups and a few rowdy partiers. On most teams, there are a few leaders- usually veteran better performers- that either unify the team, or fragment into a further circus.

There is more to being a professional than just getting paid. Preparation and work do play a part in performance, but it isn't always prioritized-and how you speak on the public record can adversely influence "chemistry" after the fact- those areas- the physical preparation and the public personna- are where the manager needs to be proactively involved- not just reacting to issues. Baseball still has to be fun- winning helps that more than anything else, and that is never an accident.

 

[JohnU]

Honestly, I think the chemistry thing is directly related to getting a 10-game lead on the division in June and playing the rest of the year like the other teams in the division can't beat you.

Latos violated the unwritten code, which probably annoys the Reds clubhouse the most. It's always better to just say "I guess they thought it was time to make a change" and let it go at that.

I still think the Reds are being way too defensive about this. If you do the right thing, there is less for people to complain about.

 

[redsfan03]

Doesn't surprise me, to be honest. This team has been underachieving on the field, in the front office, and in the training room. The medical staff is legendary for its ineptness. The Reds have a bunch of veterans who are content with losing and taking months off. Latos may be a head case, but I think he's spot on here.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I agree John. All MLB teams have some level of talent and the ones that win almost always appear to have good chemistry, leadership, and any other intangible you want to throw in. Second tier teams generally don't appear to possess the same qualities. It's the difference in appearance between winning and losing. The individual desire to win and the ability to execute a sound team concept breeds winning. A fortuitous bounce of the ball along the way never hurts. All the cliches are attached afterwards.

The Latos comments came the day before media day. So the focal point of questions Monday for the Reds were centered around the subject. The quote that stood out for me in response from Reds' players was from Devon Mesoraco that basically called Latos a liar. "For him to say that they're rushing people to get back into the game couldn't be further from the truth."


Haven't seen much of a defense mounted concerning the clubhouse. So that is probably shall we say 'it is what it is".

 

[JohnU]

I think the power of observation goes a long way with the fans on determining whether the team was busting hump or not. If you look at the players who are currently the most popular, you can close your eyes and visualize why that is. Four players stood out for me, maybe five or six. Those were, in no particular order: Mesoraco, Frazier, Hamilton and Simon. For short bursts, I include Negron. Pena is included but for different reasons. He was just a fun guy to watch.

My point: The issue of chemistry as it relates to the fans is much different from what it means inside a clubhouse. In my years playing ball, the guys I wanted to be around were level emotionally, always made the routine play, were punctual and supportive. I never cared much for rah-rah beyond the fun it generated. At the end, you still have to play the game, can't cheerlead it to happen.

We still tend to overlook the loss of Votto from the team a year ago, and while he is not the prototypical clubhouse leader, he is still the straw that stirs the drink. It's easier to establish chemistry when you score 4 in the first off Adam Wainright, instead of going 7 inning with 2 baserunners, a single by Frazier and a walk to Votto.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I agree with Votto being the straw and might go as far as to say he's the alcohol as well. This team is club soda without Joey Votto on two fronts. They went all-in buying the "Votto Expressway" and are dependent upon his success to win and don't have the remaining payroll to take a detour. The condition of his knee is going to impact the next decade for Reds' fans.​

 

[JohnU]

In a way, if you look at baseball history and the teams that never really won much ... a few come to mind from the 1950s. The Red Sox had arguably the best hitter of the 2nd half of the century in Teddy Ballgame, never won anything (though the Yanks usually did.) The Giants had Mays and were rarely in contention except for 1954. The Tigers had Kaline and were often ordinary. Even the Cardinals in the 1950s with Musial were usually a .500 team.

The reason -- they didn't have anybody else.

Cincy has gone that route and tried to cover the gaps with defense and pitching, all of which is great if you score a couple of runs. Having bad baserunning or, in the case of Baker, none at all ... you end up with a team like the 1950s Red Sox -- somewhere between 3rd and 7th place.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Williams, Musial, Mays, and Kaline were all "The Guy" kind of players in the reserve clause era. Imagine how much different those teams might have been with free agency, Rule 4 draft, etc., and the money those teams have to throw around today.

The Reds have talent beyond Votto but not "the Guy" kind of talent. Without Votto being a force in the lineup it's much easier for the opposing pitchers to navigate through the order.

It's impossible to hide hitters in the lineup. Zack Cozart (.208) had the second most AB's with RISP hitting eight. Frazier (.230) had the most opportunities with RISP. Mesoraco started the year going 27-54 and batted .236 the remainder of the season and only hit .224 in the four hole. He showed consistent power throughout the year and getting 25+ HR's from a catcher is a huge bonus, but if his BA doesn't improve he's more suited for the 5-6 slot.

Someone has to be productive in front of and behind Votto. Otherwise they continue to walk him and the Reds keep scoring 4 runs.... usually less. Along with a dozen other "ifs" for a productive offense, this pitching staff has plenty of "ifs" as well.

Well, at least they'll play great defense.

 

[JohnU]

I would guess that Byrd is going to be in the four spot, with his 185 strikeouts ahead of Bruce's 190 ... looks like we are going to need a miracle or two. The problem with Byrd is that he didn't solve the problem in the 2 hole. Unless they move Votto there, which was kind of the plan at first ... If they keep Frazier there, I suppose that will be all right, but it will likely be Phillips.