Jay Cutler... For discussion

[nomoreshoop]

Cutler had Green Bay's defense making skid marks in the first 2.5 quarters, then he lost focus. Don't see how that makes him = to journey men QBs. but look out I will get about 10 hate responses for saying something, lol.

 

[Mikefive]

Lol… I just don't get Bears fans. It's like unreal how much of a roller coaster it is with you people. One win, and they're the best team in the NFC, and as soon as they lose they're fucking pieces of shit who might as well piss their season away.

Yeah, yesterday got away from them, and it was pretty damn ugly in that second half. But for chrissakes, where does one game get Jay Cutler compared to Glennon? lol. By that logic, after the previous two weeks, he was as valuable as Peyton Manning.

Give me a break. Onto the next one.

Actually, if you read my post game blame comments, I never mentioned Cutler even once. I hung it on the defense.

Where does one get Cutler compared to Glennon? Read my posts above. There's an argument there. If you don't think so, fine. Then go ahead and present your logic. I find it interesting that few want to respond to the logic I presented, other than to either answer a question that wasn't asked (Cutler or McCown) or just refuse to respond at all (like you). I believe I presented a logical argument. If my logic is wrong, go ahead and point it out.

Let's hear it.

 

[Mikefive]

Cutler is a poor man's Brett Favre.

That's fair. The bad news is that Aaron Rodgers is better than Brett Favre at any economic level.

 

[anotheridiot]

I dont know about Glennon, I dont think many people do. You just think of Nick Foles beating out Vick and Sanchez to keep the job because he simply does not show he turns the ball over. I guess any QB just entering the league is tough to compare to since they have not developed their bad habits yet.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

With Conte... I don't disagree at all. You could even extend that to Major Wright who couldn't even make the cut for his old coach in Tampa even though he also looked good in 2012.

Wright and Conte are not interchangeable. Both are bad tacklers, but Conte is far better in coverage than Wright was. That's why Wright was playing strong, rather than free safety. The strong safety has much more primary responsibility for run defense. I was one of about 3 people left on Earth trying to say everyone was totally overreacting to Conte last year, and really when you boil it down it is because Conte was always the last guy you saw on a terrible run defense's replays of scoring plays. But he was the free safety. The free safety has the 11th most responsibility for run defense of the entire defense. The whole criticism always struck me as very foolish.

He's not great, he is mediocre, but he is much better at his position than was sometimes said and he certainly is better than Wright was at his. You can't have a bad tackling strong safety.

 

[anotheridiot]

pretty sure that conte and wright were switched back and forth for most of their time here, but when we had a linebacker that could cover 25 yards deep down the middle they were the top young tandem in football.

When Conte lines up in coverage in short yardage, he always seems to end up with a 6'4 250 pound tight end.

This is why I think the "wrinkle" or "hybrid" d should be a third safety, not the extra CB.

 

[toooverbearing]

Wright and Conte are not interchangeable. Both are bad tacklers, but Conte is far better in coverage than Wright was. That's why Wright was playing strong, rather than free safety. The strong safety has much more primary responsibility for run defense. I was one of about 3 people left on Earth trying to say everyone was totally overreacting to Conte last year, and really when you boil it down it is because Conte was always the last guy you saw on a terrible run defense's replays of scoring plays. But he was the free safety. The free safety has the 11th most responsibility for run defense of the entire defense. The whole criticism always struck me as very foolish.

He's not great, he is mediocre, but he is much better at his position than was sometimes said and he certainly is better than Wright was at his. You can't have a bad tackling strong safety.

True. I think we're all saying the same thing more or less. Their performance was amplified by what the front seven/front four was doing. When the guys in front of them were getting the job done, they both looked terrific. When the guys in front of them were not getting the job done, they both looked terrible.

Circling back to Jay, Glennon and McCown... it is also true of quarterback. Systems, coaching, competition and the players around them amplify how good or bad they are. My initial point though with this is each player is a work in progress. The guy you draft is not the guy you end up with. If you have a good developmental environment around him, he will end up being better than the player you selected on draft day. If you don't, he'll rot on the vine.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

I have quite a bit to say on Jay... and the "fallout" each week the Bears lose a game. I have a thread in mind, but been busy and want to make this point and add to the discussion.

What I see more then anything is many people over analyze or put more into a game or play then I think he does. The generalization of Jay Cutler "loses focus" or "doesn't care" I believe is far from the truth. If you have listened to him honestly (without bias) he's said this many times- That it's about the next play. For better or worse he moves on. That's why we get multiple INT's or "bonehead" plays.
Once the One interception happens- he doesn't dwell on it. Next series or whatever, another play, another drive... It's possible it happens again. I'm not saying that's a good thing- or defending it in anyway. He needs to be more conservative when/after a bonehead INT happens. I just think that's his approach.
How do I know this? It's because that's what was taught to Elite QB's at two different QB school's in the late 90's/Early 2000's. And it's an educated guess.

I also think he's smarter then his actions. He's a football savant. (again, listen to what he's saying)
Cutler on the first pick: "It's a slant. If he jumps it, he jumps it. Most of the time in three-deep, he's not going to jump it." Asked what he could do to prevent that kind of pick, Cutler said, "Hope it doesn't fly in the air for 15 yards." (he added more to this on the air, but I couldn't find it in print)

It's a cerebral QB's issue when they watch lots of tape and "KNOW" what they are going to do. THEY NEVER have done this before so I can take a chance here or there. And then that safety does something out of the ordinary- or your WR isn't quite in the same spot you expected or whatever. You are left dumbfounded. Thinking- I KNOW I was right, I did the right thing...but it didn't work. (thus the smugness)

I also truly believe that Marshall ran the wrong route, an 18 yard hook (as Trestman said) needs to be thrown before the WR turns or breaks- The ball is already gone before Marshall decided to go deep. There is NO WAY to stop that. I still have nightmares of WR's STOPPING on slants or breaking too late or the wrong way on interceptions. It ends up looking awful to the fan, and blam- THAT QB SUCKS!

(Personally- 14 years later I can still see the 12 yrd option route to a TE- Option the LB and go opposite, I can see it clear as day the LB is flowing to the flat (not what is normal in that particular coverage) Leaving a huge void in the middle of the field- In 0.012 seconds I go through all the jubilation and excitement of winning the lotto- throw the ball to the void- The DUMBASS TE reads it wrong, goes with the LB... Free safety gets pulled that direction cause backside WR slipped and didn't occupy him, trots up and picks the ball all by himself- It looks like I threw it right to him. Nightmare. Later in film session TE get's chewed out. Fans don't see that, fans don't know the TE read it wrong.) That's why I defend QB's. Hardest position in sport.

 

[nomoreshoop]

If the defense is playing zone or backpedaling they will see the ball first if it is thrown before the WR breaks. Sounds like a duh moment for the Bears staff and/or Jay.

 

[anotheridiot]

I also truly believe that Marshall ran the wrong route, an 18 yard hook (as Trestman said) needs to be thrown before the WR turns or breaks- The ball is already gone before Marshall decided to go deep. There is NO WAY to stop that. I still have nightmares of WR's STOPPING on slants or breaking too late or the wrong way on interceptions. It ends up looking awful to the fan, and blam- THAT QB SUCKS!

The whole problem with that argument, even if Marshall did run the hook, the DB was right there. He was waiting for that hook. It was throwing the ball to a spot that a DB was standing since the DB was playing press on the inside, again, forcing a covered receiver to make a play on the ball. If Jay saw that, and tossed the ball over the DB's head it would have been a great play by a great quarterback that just threw a touchdown pass. Thats what Marshall saw. Apparently the reads when the DB is to the outside is not the trigger to run the hook anymore because people think the ball should be thrown into the coverage.

Thats the other side of the argument. Big receivers give you a wider window to throw the ball to. Bigger receivers will win battles. It should not be a reason you consider the guy an elite quarterback. We see elite when we play green bay, he is in the other uniform.

 

[NCChiFan]

The fact is Cutler has only won 1 game against GB, and has had his ass handed to him in the others. This is just not acceptable. I know, I know, the Bears D sucks. But so does GBs, and the Bears only put up 17 on them. Who's at fault?

What game where you watching? Cutler resided over an offense with over 500 total yards. Yea, the Offense didn't "finish" all those drives, but the Bears never punted. There are all sorts of reasons for not winning that game, but Offense as a whole, wasn't the issue. So which Bear QB would you rather have? Let us list the last 30 years worth shall we, decide: Phipps... Evans.. Avellini... Landry.. Fuller... Tomczak...Flutie...Harbaugh...Willis...Furrer...Kramer... Walsh.. Krieg... Mirer... Stenstrom... Mareno... Matthews... McNown... Miller... Chandler... Burris... Stewart... Grossman.. Quinn... Krenzel... Hutchinson.. Orton... or Greise.

We act like finding a decent QB is an easy task... Those are all our QB's save 3 (McCown, Cutler and McMahon) over the last 30 years. My goodness what a suck ass list, and every stinking one of them is worse than Jay Cutler.

 

[NCChiFan]

Who would you rather have than Jay??? Aside from Wilson and Luck, name me some young QB's you would rather have over Jay? Or for that matter vet QB's... Smith in Arizona, maybe but think of all the bad years he's had. Kapernick, no, Jay's better. Dalton, I'll take Jay. Romo, I'll take Jay, Stafford, I'll take Jay, Ponder? Cousins? RG III?? Cam Newton, please no... McCown back??? That's a busted plan, ask Lovie. Henne? bah, hell no, Bridgewater, maybe... Flacco, well he's had his moments... Right now Brady's looking like crap, I would take Jay right now over Brady. HOw about Carr, Cassell, Cousins, no no and no. Foles? Fitzpatrick? Glennon? Gabbert? Geno Smith? Locker? Tannehill??


It is easy to say, Jay isn't the answer, but guess what... There are a TON of "isn't the answers" out there. It is not easy to find a solid QB in this league.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Who would you rather have than Jay??? Aside from Wilson and Luck, name me some young QB's you would rather have over Jay? Or for that matter vet QB's... Smith in Arizona, maybe but think of all the bad years he's had. Kapernick, no, Jay's better. Dalton, I'll take Jay. Romo, I'll take Jay, Stafford, I'll take Jay, Ponder? Cousins? RG III?? Cam Newton, please no... McCown back??? That's a busted plan, ask Lovie. Henne? bah, hell no, Bridgewater, maybe... Flacco, well he's had his moments... Right now Brady's looking like crap, I would take Jay right now over Brady. HOw about Carr, Cassell, Cousins, no no and no. Foles? Fitzpatrick? Glennon? Gabbert? Geno Smith? Locker? Tannehill??


It is easy to say, Jay isn't the answer, but guess what... There are a TON of "isn't the answers" out there. It is not easy to find a solid QB in this league.

YEP.

To add: Who was available when they resigned Jay? McCown... We were not in the market for a first round QB Draft pick. And needed Draft picks for Defense. Rather have Bridgewater over Kyle Fuller?

 

[nebearsfan70]

What game where you watching? Cutler resided over an offense with over 500 total yards. Yea, the Offense didn't "finish" all those drives, but the Bears never punted. There are all sorts of reasons for not winning that game, but Offense as a whole, wasn't the issue. So which Bear QB would you rather have? Let us list the last 30 years worth shall we, decide: Phipps... Evans.. Avellini... Landry.. Fuller... Tomczak...Flutie...Harbaugh...Willis...Furrer...Kramer... Walsh.. Krieg... Mirer... Stenstrom... Mareno... Matthews... McNown... Miller... Chandler... Burris... Stewart... Grossman.. Quinn... Krenzel... Hutchinson.. Orton... or Greise.

We act like finding a decent QB is an easy task... Those are all our QB's save 3 (McCown, Cutler and McMahon) over the last 30 years. My goodness what a suck ass list, and every stinking one of them is worse than Jay Cutler.

...and all those yards yielded a victory? C'mon, everyone knows Cutler is an interception machine. Two picks leading to 14 points, missed passes, and dumb decisions. The defense didn't help either, but my original point is clear. If a QB cannot win the big games, win games when it matters, you are destined for mediocrity. Need data? Look over the last 5 seasons. Does he have good games? Yep, he sure does. But a squirrel can find a nut every now and then too.

My point is simply this: With all these weapons around him, the guy still fucks up. Period. This is his make-or-break season. He got paid, he has the talent around him... And he still cannot beat the Packers. Can't win in the division, you don't make the playoffs... And you are average.



Okay, nice history lesson. But what does that have to do with today? Not a damn thing except... It shows how poorly the Bears assess the QB position.

Sorry if I disagree with you and others on the board, but I'm tired of the same old Jay. Apparently everyone besides Bear fans realizes this as well.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Sorry if I disagree with you and others on the board, but I'm tired of the same old Jay. Apparently everyone besides Bear fans realizes this as well.

Ok... so what are you going to do about it? Stop being a Bear fan? Stop watching the games? Bitch about Jay until he's gone? (at least 3 seasons of him... and potentially more) You absolutely can disagree and be pissed about his mistakes- but what does that do for you? Just pissed off and mad.

 

[NCChiFan]

...and all those yards yielded a victory? C'mon, everyone knows Cutler is an interception machine. Two picks leading to 14 points, missed passes, and dumb decisions. The defense didn't help either, but my original point is clear. If a QB cannot win the big games, win games when it matters, you are destined for mediocrity. Need data? Look over the last 5 seasons. Does he have good games? Yep, he sure does. But a squirrel can find a nut every now and then too.

My point is simply this: With all these weapons around him, the guy still fucks up. Period. This is his make-or-break season. He got paid, he has the talent around him... And he still cannot beat the Packers. Can't win in the division, you don't make the playoffs... And you are average.



Okay, nice history lesson. But what does that have to do with today? Not a damn thing except... It shows how poorly the Bears assess the QB position.

Sorry if I disagree with you and others on the board, but I'm tired of the same old Jay. Apparently everyone besides Bear fans realizes this as well.

Those two INT's are not on Jay... You can blame the wide out on the int's. If anything I can blame Jay for not hitting Bennett IN the endzone rather than in front of it, to end the half.

My point of that list is, and the current crop of QB's list is, it isn't as easy as anyone makes it out to be, to replace Jay, with someone ATLEAST as good, forgetting for a second better than Jay. That's why I posted all those current QB's. There are a LOT of bad or mediocre, worse than Jay QB's in this league and only a few that are better. Payton, Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Rivers right now, Smith in Arizona but I question his other years, Wilson, Luck... That's about it. You're not getting one of those.

 

[NCChiFan]

Pick one, here is a list of the last few years drafts QB's:


EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, Glennon, Barkley, Nassib, Tyler Wilson... 2013
Luck (can't have him was the first pick), Griffen, Tannehill, Weeden, Osweiler, Wilson (here you go, Third rounder! but who knew? or he would have gone second to Luck)... 2012
Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Dalton, Kaepernick, Mallet, Stanzi... 2011
Don't think there is a single starter from the 2010 class of QB's...
And only Stafford is a starter from the 2009 class of QB's and he was the first pick.

So there you are... go ahead, tell me who you want... Wilson but he was a 3rd rounder.... Luck we wouldn't have had the # 1 pick in the draft... So who? I'm telling you, it isn't that easy. There is a huge list of real bad and some maybe qb's since 2009.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

This stat- Jay Cutler now has a 1-9 RECORD against the Packers since he has been a Bear.

Urlacher: 9-18 against GB- Only won HALF as many as he lost. WHY?
Briggs/Tillman: 9-15 (1-10 since 09 too, yes I know they were both injured in some of those games)
Hester: 6-12
Forte: 3-11

I'm making the point that it's a team game. Yet these guys don't get the shit. They played and lost against them too. Isn't Football the ultimate TEAM game?

The last time the Bears won more then 3 games in a row against GB was 1990-1992. They lost 10 straight from 94-98. 7 straight from 2000-03.
Using the 1-9 stat is BS...its just a way to point out the writer bias. It's weak.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Since the 1992 SEASON... Bears Vs Packers Record: 13 Wins 32 Losses.

They have SUCKED against the Packers for 22 YEARS! Yet the past 5 years is what everyone is pissed about?

When you play against back to back HOF Quarterbacks- for over 2 decades. You aren't going to fair well.

 

[nebearsfan70]

Ok... so what are you going to do about it? Stop being a Bear fan? Stop watching the games? Bitch about Jay until he's gone? (at least 3 seasons of him... and potentially more) You absolutely can disagree and be pissed about his mistakes- but what does that do for you? Just pissed off and mad.

It was my original point that he is just an average QB who can't win the big games; so I am clarifying my position with NC. If it hurts your feelings, fuck off. I did not address you, you were not part of this conversation, and you can continue to tongue-juggle Cutler's nads.

There... Is that better?