How much is too much for Klay

[clyde_carbon]

Sam Amick is reporting no go for Dubs deal

If this is the case, i'll be happy. No need to mortgage the farm for Love.

Love is a year old than Thompson. That's not mortgaging the "future."

Honestly I'm fine either way, but Championships are usually won with Superstars (sans the Spurs) and that's what Love is. With our current roster we're still only a 4-6 seed in the West barring huge improvement from a guy like Barnes.

 

[NBKLee]

Love is a year old than Thompson. That's not mortgaging the "future."

Honestly I'm fine either way, but Championships are usually won with Superstars (sans the Spurs) and that's what Love is. With our current roster we're still only a 4-6 seed in the West barring huge improvement from a guy like Barnes.

So what your saying is a Healthy Bogut/FE/decent Back up PG Livingston vs Baze/Blake/JC/Douglas isn't going to mean much this year?


As always, Dubs "If healthy" could push for 1-4 seed this year. That's a legit possibility vs homer speak.
Removing D.Lee , Klay+ D.Green Future picks for Love + Kmartin's contract would be giving up too much.

 

[CohanHater]

So what your saying is a Healthy Bogut/FE/decent Back up PG Livingston vs Baze/Blake/JC/Douglas isn't going to mean much this year?


As always, Dubs "If healthy" could push for 1-4 seed this year. That's a legit possibility vs homer speak.
Removing D.Lee , Klay+ D.Green Future picks for Love + Kmartin's contract would be giving up too much.

It'd be Klay and Lee + Picks.

Compare
1) Curry, Iguodala, Barnes, Love, Bogut - Livingston, Rush, Green, KMart, Ezili, Speights
2) Curry, Thompson, Iguodala, Lee, Bogut - Livingston, Barnes, Rush, Green, Ezili, Speights

To me lineup 1 is hands down better, a real threat. In Jackson's system probably start Green over Barnes, but I think in a structured offense Barnes is the better fit to start. Especially with Love stretching the floor.

The 2nd lineup isn't a bad one at all. With the Clips potentially losing Doc I don't think it's homer talk to say 1-4 seed is within reach with either lineup

 

[clyde_carbon]

It'd be Klay and Lee + Picks.

Compare
1) Curry, Iguodala, Barnes, Love, Bogut - Livingston, Rush, Green, KMart, Ezili, Speights
2) Curry, Thompson, Iguodala, Lee, Bogut - Livingston, Barnes, Rush, Green, Ezili, Speights

To me lineup 1 is hands down better, a real threat. In Jackson's system probably start Green over Barnes, but I think in a structured offense Barnes is the better fit to start. Especially with Love stretching the floor.

The 2nd lineup isn't a bad one at all. With the Clips potentially losing Doc I don't think it's homer talk to say 1-4 seed is within reach with either lineup

Exactly what I was going to say. At the end of the day I'm fine with either lineup, but there's no question #1 is a bigger threat.

 

[southernfriedwarrior]

It'd be Klay and Lee + Picks.

Compare
1) Curry, Iguodala, Barnes, Love, Bogut - Livingston, Rush, Green, KMart, Ezili, Speights
2) Curry, Thompson, Iguodala, Lee, Bogut - Livingston, Barnes, Rush, Green, Ezili, Speights

To me lineup 1 is hands down better, a real threat. In Jackson's system probably start Green over Barnes, but I think in a structured offense Barnes is the better fit to start. Especially with Love stretching the floor.

The 2nd lineup isn't a bad one at all. With the Clips potentially losing Doc I don't think it's homer talk to say 1-4 seed is within reach with either lineup

It's close, although lineup #2 has an edge when it comes to defense IMO. Can you play Martin in crunch time in the playoffs because of his defensive deficiencies? No doubt this has been a very tough call for the FO.

 

[anotheridiot]

why not just let minnesota lose him for nothing already. They could have dealt Love to cleveland and gotten the #1 pick, now picks are signed and cant be dealt for 30 days and it goes back to getting the same players that were talked about two months ago with klay and lee or Butler and Gibson.

Sorry, but these deals just need to get done and move on already. I wished the bulls would have pulled their deal off the table for melo two days after they met with him and moved on. I just hope Love plays out the year and no BS about "I want to go to ***** at the trade deadline. Melo took the guaranteed money, but by 2016, they will follow the King James thought process, completely blow up the cap and max deal parameters with a record tv contract. Melo is gonna want to renegotiate since LeBron is making 40 million. The bulls gave Carmelo that option, sign for two years and get guaranteed recalculated max money in 2016.

Golden state has a nice team, they will compete with what you have. Bulls made the move to Gasol and Mirotic and now somehow want love again?

 

[msgkings322]

So what your saying is a Healthy Bogut/FE/decent Back up PG Livingston vs Baze/Blake/JC/Douglas isn't going to mean much this year?


As always, Dubs "If healthy" could push for 1-4 seed this year. That's a legit possibility vs homer speak.
Removing D.Lee , Klay+ D.Green Future picks for Love + Kmartin's contract would be giving up too much.

Even healthy (HUGE if w Bogut) the Ws aren't getting the 1 or 2 seed. 3 is their ABSOLUTE upside. Likely 4-5. Historically you gotta be a 1 or 2 seed to make the Finals. Like 90% of the time.

If the Ws want this to be their window, they need Love or another big star a year later. Just counting on their current roster getting better and staying healthy isn't enough.

 

[CohanHater]

It's close, although lineup #2 has an edge when it comes to defense IMO. Can you play Martin in crunch time in the playoffs because of his defensive deficiencies? No doubt this has been a very tough call for the FO.

You can Play Curry, Iguodala, Green/Barnes, Love and Bogut. That team is more than capable in crunch time.
Also, note that Livingston is a solid defender, another "Defensive Lineup" could be

Curry, Livingston, Igoudala, Green, Bogut during stretches while Love is resting. That lineup has a ton of potential. Also, I'm not sure where Rush is in his recovery, but he was a solid defender before his injury.

 

[southernfriedwarrior]

You can Play Curry, Iguodala, Green/Barnes, Love and Bogut. That team is more than capable in crunch time.

True, but a crunch time lineup of Thompson, Curry, Iggy, Bogut and Lee is just as good defensively, but gives you three very good offensive players in Lee/Thompson/Curry vs 2 with Love/Curry. As this entire thing has played out, I've pretty much moved to the fence on this deal. I'll be happy with or without Love.

 

[NBKLee]

It'd be Klay and Lee + Picks.

Compare
1) Curry, Iguodala, Barnes, Love, Bogut - Livingston, Rush, Green, KMart, Ezili, Speights
2) Curry, Thompson, Iguodala, Lee, Bogut - Livingston, Barnes, Rush, Green, Ezili, Speights

To me lineup 1 is hands down better, a real threat. In Jackson's system probably start Green over Barnes, but I think in a structured offense Barnes is the better fit to start. Especially with Love stretching the floor.

The 2nd lineup isn't a bad one at all. With the Clips potentially losing Doc I don't think it's homer talk to say 1-4 seed is within reach with either lineup

For Cap reasons, I believe the Dubs would have to include D.Green or another smaller salary in the deal.

If it was just KLay/D.Lee+ picks for K.Martin/Love, I'm thinking the FO might have done this deal already. You also hear reports, MINN wants to dump Barerra on us aswell? There's a reason why this hasn't been done yet. I'm hoping the DUbs don't do anything rash.


Besides KLay, I think including Money Green in this deal would be a big mistake. He was our 6th man last year, and was the definition of Warrior. Without him, our bench consists of SPeights, Kuz as the two big men and that looks horrible on paper and on the floor.

 

[CohanHater]

For Cap reasons, I believe the Dubs would have to include D.Green or another smaller salary in the deal.

If it was just KLay/D.Lee+ picks for K.Martin/Love, I'm thinking the FO might have done this deal already. You also hear reports, MINN wants to dump Barerra on us aswell? There's a reason why this hasn't been done yet. I'm hoping the DUbs don't do anything rash.

Besides KLay, I think including Money Green in this deal would be a big mistake. He was our 6th man last year, and was the definition of Warrior. Without him, our bench consists of SPeights, Kuz as the two big men and that looks horrible on paper and on the floor.

I think the dump is the main reason why the deal hasn't been done yet. No way they give Lee, Green and Klay. I think the front office would be willing to go over the cap to bring Love in.

True, but a crunch time lineup of Thompson, Curry, Iggy, Bogut and Lee is just as good defensively, but gives you three very good offensive players in Lee/Thompson/Curry vs 2 with Love/Curry. As this entire thing has played out, I've pretty much moved to the fence on this deal. I'll be happy with or without Love.

True, but offensively, the 2nd lineup is much stronger. Love opens the whole floor up and pulls boards which would drive transition offense. To me, it's a no-brainer. But like you said, I'd be happy with the lineup as is. Just not as happy.

 

[CohanHater]

If you believe in rumors, then the Warriors are out of the Love trade talks

 

[NBKLee]

Even healthy (HUGE if w Bogut) the Ws aren't getting the 1 or 2 seed. 3 is their ABSOLUTE upside. Likely 4-5. Historically you gotta be a 1 or 2 seed to make the Finals. Like 90% of the time.

If the Ws want this to be their window, they need Love or another big star a year later. Just counting on their current roster getting better and staying healthy isn't enough.

Serious question, barring any trades, on paper, is this team better than last year?

Prior to the start of the season last year, I thought the Dubs had a deep team on paper, injuries almost killed the team, and eventually in the playoffs it did.

This year. 1-10, I believe the team is deeper and more experienced having played with each other 1 year already.

Steph, KLay, Ai#9, D.Lee, Bogut, HB, D. Green, Rush, Livingston, a healthy FE, Speights, Nedo, Kuz


Gone are Marshan Brooks, Douglas, Baze, JO (even though he was a beast for a small stretches), Blake, Crawford all who could be 'fine role players', but you don't really want them to start on a consistent basis.

I'm not planning the parade yet, but 1-4 seed isn't out of the question.

 

[CitySushi]

Serious question, barring any trades, on paper, is this team better than last year?

Prior to the start of the season last year, I thought the Dubs had a deep team on paper, injuries almost killed the team, and eventually in the playoffs it did.

This year. 1-10, I believe the team is deeper and more experienced having played with each other 1 year already.

Steph, KLay, Ai#9, D.Lee, Bogut, HB, D. Green, Rush, Livingston, a healthy FE, Speights, Nedo, Kuz


Gone are Marshan Brooks, Douglas, Baze, JO (even though he was a beast for a small stretches), Blake, Crawford all who could be 'fine role players', but you don't really want them to start on a consistent basis.

I'm not planning the parade yet, but 1-4 seed isn't out of the question.

On paper, I think the teams are somewhat similar.

1-7 we're the same. Green played much better than expected last year and HB was a disappointment. I think both of those guys can be big contributors again this year.

We hugely upgraded at the back up PG spot. The backup 2 and 5 spots are still shaky. JO played extremely well when he was out there. Both Rush and FE are coming off injury plagued seasons. I don't think we can immediately pencil them in for production. There is a more wait and see type situation with those guys.

The one thing I'm still concerned about is our bench scoring production. I'm really hoping that Kerr uses his rotations more effectively to avoid those long dry spells of the second unit that we had last season. Livingston is a good player, but he's not a scorer. Rush is a 3 and D player. HB has the potential, same with Green. FE is just gonna be a put back guy. Speights is hit or miss. It'll be really interesting to see how that plays out.

I think the Warriors have a legit shot to make a move up to the 4 spot. The Rockets took a big step back, but at the same time Dallas had a very nice off season.

My early season prediction of seeds:

1) Thunder (Full season of a healthy Westbrook should do wonders)
2) Spurs (Pop doesn't care about seeding. Mills is also out with an injury)
3) Clippers (Very talented team. Could push for a higher seed)
4) Warriors (Success on this team is dependent upon 2 things: Health & Kerr)
5) Mavericks (Big acquisitions of Parsons, Nelson and T. Chandler)
6) Blazers (Lived and died on the 3 last year. Have to see if they can duplicate that type of shooting)
7) Rockets (Lost Parson, Lin & Asik, and replaced them with Ariza)
8) Grizzlies (Always solid.)

If Bledsoe resigns with the Suns I think they could make the playoffs too. Also if Gallinari, McGee, W. Chandler & Robinson get healthy, and with the addition of Afflalo, they could be really dangerous too. The West is crazy deep.

 

[JustOneDennisBergkamp]

If you believe in rumors, then the Warriors are out of the Love trade talks

From Minnesota's standpoint, it was "no Klay, no way." If I was them, I would have said the same, but I'm quite glad that Klay ain't going anywhere right now.

 

[NBKLee]

From Minnesota's standpoint, it was "no Klay, no way." If I was them, I would have said the same, but I'm quite glad that Klay ain't going anywhere right now.

Steph said No

I probably should let this thread die, but Giants are sinking like a rock in the sea, and Dubs don't play for a while.

 

[JustOneDennisBergkamp]

Steph said No

I probably should let this thread die, but Giants are sinking like a rock in the sea, and Dubs don't play for a while.

Saw the seventh inning today, and all it took was an over-rule to open up the flood gates. Giants snap a four gamer and Peavy, 12.

As to the subject here, I'm looking for Klay to take a big step towards elite this season.

 

[CitySushi]

There's three huge things I want to see from Klay if we're gonna justify giving him close to what Parsons and Hayward got this offseason:

1) Ball handling. He's got to improve his handle. Klay needs to be able to assert himself on offense and get something going to the basket when his shot isn't falling. He needs to get more consistent in producing instead of relying on simply the outside shot all the time. Klay improved his finishing at the rim last season, he just needs to get there more often. If he's able to take his guy of the dribble, he's big enough where he can get to the basket in two strides from the 3 point line. If he's able to take guys off the dribble, they have to respect him and the defense can't close out on him nearly as hard.

2) Post game. At 6'7" he's one of the biggest 2 guards in the NBA. There's no reason why he can't some of the smaller guards into the post and get a shot over them at any time. For Klay, a post up, turn around jumper should be there for him all day. I don't want the team to bog down the offense with iso's like last year, but there should be a few times in a game where they can use Klay as a post guy with the triangle principles.

3) Passing. He's got to be a guy who can help others. He's pretty much been a career 2.2 assist guy every year. I'd really love to see him double that. I think his assist numbers will increase because of the new system in place. I don't want to see him as just a gunner. He needs to round out his play by making plays for others.

 

[CitySushi]

Looks like Klay is still wanting close to the max for an extension. Word from everything I've been reading is that Klay is looking for a deal of "at least" 15M annually, which is not far off from a max deal. The Warriors are in the ball park at around 13M annually.

It really comes down to two things: Security vs. Total Cashout. Klay has been very durable in his career, but you always never know in sports. He can opt to take a more team friendly deal in order to secure his financial interest for the next 5 years. The second option would be to wait it out and play out the year and hit the RFA market. He'll likely get a max offer from someone and the Warriors will definitely match. The difference between the two deals may be in the range of about 2M more annually.

 

[rayhl111]

I think the Suns are going to be tough to beat. They are loaded w depth. I'm not sold on the Grizzlies although they are a rugged team. Portl is a bit iffy to me even though they have a very good inside outside game w Lamarcus and D. Lillard. Also, I'm not completely sold on the Clippers. LAC will be a very good regular season team but in the playoffs, I'm not sure they are built correctly until they can get an upgrade at the SG spot. I've the Warriors as the 3rd team. My surprise team is Dallas. Parson will help a lot.


1) Thunder (Full season of a healthy Westbrook should do wonders)
2) Spurs (Pop doesn't care about seeding. Mills is also out with an injury)
3) Clippers (Very talented team. Could push for a higher seed)
4) Warriors (Success on this team is dependent upon 2 things: Health & Kerr)
5) Mavericks (Big acquisitions of Parsons, Nelson and T. Chandler)
6) Blazers (Lived and died on the 3 last year. Have to see if they can duplicate that type of shooting)
7) Rockets (Lost Parson, Lin & Asik, and replaced them with Ariza)
8) Grizzlies (Always solid.)