Good Article on Stan and the Cap Situation

[JBM73]

Chicago Blackhawks general manager Stan Bowman building potential dynasty around salary cap - NHL.com - NHL Insider

 

[Baseballnut77]

yeah i read that and we are in a good spot but there will still be some tough calls to be made

 

[gmalis1]

yeah i read that and we are in a good spot but there will still be some tough calls to be made

Please clue us in and share with us what those tough calls will be?

 

[Baseballnut77]

mostly the tough calls will have to be made on the prospects which there are quite a few of that will be free agents either at the end of this year or shortly after. We have a fairly young team signed to long term contracts and there is not alot of room for the prospects that are "ready" for some nhl action. As it is a nice problem to have, we are still going to end up letting some good young players go to other teams free of charge or in a minor for minor trade simply because we dont have the room

 

[Baseballnut77]

And tread very carefully with your sarcasm sparky

 

[gmalis1]

And tread very carefully with your sarcasm sparky

Not sarcastic. I wanted to see where you were going with the "tough calls" down the road. Were you talking about negotiations with Kane and Toews extensions or the young kids.

What's interesting with this team is that Stan B is building around a central core. Five marquis forwards that are locked up (Kane, Toews, Hossa, Sharp, Bickell), all six defenseman and your goalie.

I assume (and I'm not the GM, so I probably shouldn't assume anything) that the remaining spots are considered role players and deemed interchangeable parts. Lose a few of those to free agency and you just plug in the young kids developed at Rockford.

This keeps the bottom of the roster filled with entry level contracts that are usually really low, while stockpiling your upper echelon players with the high end long term contracts.

Sure, it might be tough to lose Shaw and Kruger down the road, but do you think that they can't/won't be replaced by others at the same talent level?

What gets to be a problem, and of course this is WAYYYYY down the road since the core is still really young, is when Kane and Toews and Bickell get to be in their mid 30's. Then skills diminish, speed fades, injuries linger. But I'm not even thinking about this.

It's refreshing that so many hockey journalists really think that the Hawks could be a dynasty. Some say even just one more Cup with this group would qualify them as a dynasty.

Just a few short years ago United Center was 75% empty and the team was awful. Kudos to Rocky Wirtz getting the right people to run the show and get things on track.

And as much a critic I have been of Stan B, he's done good. Learning from his dad has worked very well.

 

[gmalis1]

Oh, and baseballnut, how are things going with the Cubs.

Last time I saw some highlights on the 10:00 news, it was Labor Day and Wrigley was over 1/2 empty.

Yep, they're drawing like crazy over at Wrigley...aren't they?

 

[Baseballnut77]

well the odds are we are going to lose some rockford kids first that will then flourish with another team but such is life

 

[gmalis1]

well the odds are we are going to lose some rockford kids first that will then flourish with another team but such is life

Some will be lost. Can't keep everyone when their contract expires. And you can't blame players for leaving if they have a chance to make it in the NHL.

But the vast majority of those in Rockford are on entry level or restricted free agent two way contracts. So, the Hawks will have the right of first refusal for those restricted free agents. Those they think have some value but don't fit into the Hawks plans will get traded for other AHL'ers or draft picks (preferable).

It's not an all lose situation...unless the player really has no value. In which case other teams aren't interested.

Did it really hurt that the Hawks lost Carter Hutton? No, because Stan B knew he was going to extend Corey Crawford's contract long term...they have Antti Raanta in the pipeline...along with Simpson, Carruth and Whitney at least two years away.

So losing players you have no spot for isn't all that terrible, as long as you have others in the pipeline down the road.

Dealing from strength. It's a beautiful thing.

 

[Baseballnut77]

Oh, and baseballnut, how are things going with the Cubs.

Last time I saw some highlights on the 10:00 news, it was Labor Day and Wrigley was over 1/2 empty.

Yep, they're drawing like crazy over at Wrigley...aren't they?

yep 27,000 fans for a team that hasn't been in the playoff hunt all year. Now I know you were trying your best to be sarcastic yet again but nice try. Perhaps in the future when you are puffing out your chest in the mirror to yourself telling yourself how great you are maybe you can ask yourself "hmmmm how stupid am I going to look when I open my mouth this time"

 

[Baseballnut77]

And while your jamming your foot in your mouth further the cubs are ranked 12th in in attendance this year. Which is better than a bunch of the playoff teams. You have a wonderful day now you hear

 

[anotheridiot]

great article, we will see when the choice becomes Toews or Kane or if Hammer, Keith or Seabs is dealt to make up the money difference. Top players are getting 10-12 million. Toews is in that conversation.

Part of the problem though is stan wants to get the vets instead of locking into the kids. I heard more than once that some of the kids at rockford would already be in the nhl if there were not blocked by great players. Eventually you gotta keep feeding from the system. Saad did great last year, others need to step up to get the confidence to not need to sign a 2 million dollar backup goalie or a veteran winger, this system should be stocking itself.

And after 2010, they went out and signed some vets in Scott and Carcillo, and endless older defensemen that were a decision to not pay a glue guy like Madden a million to stay. He felt he needed to replace 10 guys after the cup win, he probably could have kept three or four of them.

 

[JBM73]

Top players are getting 10-12 million. Toews is in that conversation.

I certainly expect Toews to get at least in the 8-10 mil range, although in 2 years it very well could be the 10-12 mil range. What about Kane? Would you pay him in that range as well, or does he have more to prove over the next 2 years?

 

[gmalis1]

I think Kane and Toews have absolutely nothing to prove. They will get paid and they will get paid handsomely. The cap will go up next year, and the year after that, and the year after that.

Expect both to get in the $8 million range, but I wouldn't be surprised if it gets to $10 million. Remember, they're getting paid $6.3 million already, so a couple of million more will be like peanuts if the cap skyrockets in the next couple of years.

I think you're seeing an influx Hawks from Rockford. Maybe this year even more. Saad, sure everyone is on his bandwagon, but he had a very rough start at the beginning of the year scoring, and he was almost invisible in the playoffs with only one goal. He had the benefit of playing with Toews and Hossa, and personally even I could score some if I had them playing with me. He's solid defensively at least, will play more on the first team penalty kill, but I see him relegated to the third line this season. He might see some first line shifts, but primarily he will be a third liner, which will affect his production.

Hawks are filling in the gaps with Rockford players. And as they mature and get better, then you see the purge of some of the top players. It's rumored that Hossa might be bought out after this season, so you will need to replace him. Sharp has been oft injured the last two years, so when his contract expires he may be gone.

Love the problem of too many and too talented players waiting to crack the lineup. What a problem to have. But for the most part, the Hawks are riding the wave of talented young players until they become unproductive in their later years.

 

[gmalis1]

great article, we will see when the choice becomes Toews or Kane or if Hammer, Keith or Seabs is dealt to make up the money difference. Top players are getting 10-12 million. Toews is in that conversation.

Part of the problem though is stan wants to get the vets instead of locking into the kids. I heard more than once that some of the kids at rockford would already be in the nhl if there were not blocked by great players. Eventually you gotta keep feeding from the system. Saad did great last year, others need to step up to get the confidence to not need to sign a 2 million dollar backup goalie or a veteran winger, this system should be stocking itself.

And after 2010, they went out and signed some vets in Scott and Carcillo, and endless older defensemen that were a decision to not pay a glue guy like Madden a million to stay. He felt he needed to replace 10 guys after the cup win, he probably could have kept three or four of them.

I don't think it's a problem locking up your young veteran players that have won two Stanley Cups in four years. If they are older, that's a problem. When you are in your mid-20's, it's not a problem at all.

The Rockford players who stand out will get their chance.

If the Hawks didn't have the depth they do right now, we'd all be moaning about the question marks of new unproven players coming in. Adding kids to the roster is great, but the Hawks are doing it a couple or three at a time.

Madden was old and unproductive after the 2010 season. They got Scott for next to nothing with a very heavy cap restraint. Of course, he was worth next to nothing as well. They signed Carcillo for next to nothing too, but Car Bomb couldn't stay healthy enough and play smart enough to help.

As to keeping three or four of the 10 they let go after the 2010 Cup, which four would you have kept and how would you have paid them? The Hawks were up against the cap wall. They were stuck purging the team of mid level players and replacing them with minimum salary players because of that. Thank you Dale Tallon.

If you would have crunched the numbers from that season, the Hawks were OVER the cap and that went against the next season's cap numbers. That hamstrung Stan B. You can't ignore the cap in the NHL. It doesn't work that way. Believe me, I was as heartbroken as anyone when player after player was traded. But look at all the picks we got, look at all the players those picks turned into, and look at the minor league depth the Hawks have now.

This year, the Hawks lost three significant players (Frolik, Stalberg, Bolland). All three will be replaced with AHL'ers, barring some trade. I'm venturing to guess that most NHL teams lost at least three players from their starting roster, some even more and some with bigger names than those three.

So, if three guys from Rockford make the team this year, and the Hawks added Saad last year, and Crawford is an AHL guy...and look up and down the rest of the roster...I think you'll find most of the Blackhawks have been drafted by the team. Not many trades or free agent signings there.

The really good AHL'ers will get their chances. I'm not the least bit concerned about them.

 

[gmalis1]

yep 27,000 fans for a team that hasn't been in the playoff hunt all year. Now I know you were trying your best to be sarcastic yet again but nice try. Perhaps in the future when you are puffing out your chest in the mirror to yourself telling yourself how great you are maybe you can ask yourself "hmmmm how stupid am I going to look when I open my mouth this time"

The "announced" attendance was 27,000. In MLB, the announced attendance equals the number of tickets sold...not those actually in attendance.

If there was 15,000 there for the game, it was a lot. The bleachers were 2/3 empty...on Labor Day!

And once again, total attendance figures count as tickets sold...not actual attendance. I put no validity into MLB's attendance figures.

Pretty sure you should open your eyes up and stop drinking the Cubs Kool Aid. This team will be no better than a .500 team in the future. When and if that happens, everyone will hail Theo as a genius...but really it will be just a path to mediocrity...which will be a step up from awful.

 

[Baseballnut77]

clearly your baseball knowledge ranks right down there with your football knowledge. Stick to hockey as your are only wrong some of the time here

 

[Baseballnut77]

And the team already used their 2 compliance buyouts so i dont see hossa getting bought out anytime soon and barring his skills going through the floor i dont want to see it anyways as he may be our best 2-way player

 

[JBM73]

Did it really hurt that the Hawks lost Carter Hutton? No, because Stan B knew he was going to extend Corey Crawford's contract long term...they have Antti Raanta in the pipeline...along with Simpson, Carruth and Whitney at least two years away.

Was just reading that Carruth has looked really good in the prospects tourney so far, along with Dillon Fournier and the Broadhurst bros.

 

[HockeyDoug]

I think the Hawks are in much better shape against the cap than it appears at a glance.
Oduya, Roszival, and Leddy can be moved after this year for a solid return in trade while freeing up some space for a weak area in 2015 if the cap only increases modestly.

Sharp and Seabrook should be viewed as somewhat expendable after this season and they'll still command a strong return. Seabrook has been very overrated in my view, the excellent playoff games overshadowed the poor ones and what was a pretty poor year overall for him. If the cap rises at a 7-11% clip for a few years, the Hawks are fine.

Even if a number of Hawks achieve below what their contracts say they should accomplish, the recent ring and time in a quality organization will help raise demand for them in trade if the Hawks do run into a problem.

Pitt is stuck trying to balance Letang, Sid, Malkin, and MAF with other big contracts on the books, Chicago is in much better shape, but it will still be difficult. If Bowman was trading the farm and picks while signing these big contracts, I would worry. The contracts still have good value too, it isn't like they have a contract like Liles on the books.

Also to consider, there are a number of quality NHL calibre hockey players signing contracts (or going to sign contracts) in Europe right now and most have some sort of "out" clause. There will be opportunities to sign them for cheap to fill in for role players this year and next. Players trying to "buy time" in Europe know how much a good playoff run can boost their FA value the following summer. Chicago will be an attractive landing spot for some of them. Those aren't going to be great players but there will be help for the bottom pair, 4th line, or depth floating around out there.

Anyway, before I digress too much more, I think Chicago is in a pretty good spot for the next 3 years if not longer.