Game Thread: Cardinals at Seahawks Week 7

[JMR]

People can say he was lucky. You were saying it was some sort of historically lucky season which was absurd.

His arguments lack objectivity. Mostly subjective fluff and hyperbole. "He got lucky" is a joke of an argument.

Every single QB has turnover worthy plays that don't turn into turnovers. Every single one.

You've established a standard for Geno that he can never meet because every QB, even the elite ones, make bad decisions or simply fail to execute. Go watch Josh Allen sometime.

And your constant accusations that he is lazy are downright weird.

Geno's 2023 numbers through 6 games are pretty similar in most categories to 2022, including the completion % that critics in here said wasn't possible to duplicate. Considering the injury issues we've had on the OL, I think he's held up well this season. As the defense appears to be hitting a stride of one of the league's better units and the OL <hopefully> gets healthy, I think Geno's efficiency (e.g. passer rating) is going to improve because he'll be in fewer low success rate situations. He's played 27 games here now, so nearly 2 full seasons of data. He's proving to be a solidly above avg starting QB, and there isn't a ton wrong with that.

 

[flyerhawk]

Geno's 2023 numbers through 6 games are pretty similar in most categories to 2022, including the completion % that critics in here said wasn't possible to duplicate. Considering the injury issues we've had on the OL, I think he's held up well this season. As the defense appears to be hitting a stride of one of the league's better units and the OL <hopefully> gets healthy, I think Geno's efficiency (e.g. passer rating) is going to improve because he'll be in fewer low success rate situations. He's played 27 games here now, so nearly 2 full seasons of data. He's proving to be a solidly above avg starting QB, and there isn't a ton wrong with that.

Blaming the QB is always the easiest thing to do. He is the center of the offense and involved basically in every offensive play. It's easy for fans to rationalize that if we simply had a better QB, then the entire offense would work far better. And, sure, if you replace Geno with Mahomes, the offense would be dramatically better. But even Mahomes can't make the OL better when it is both young and banged up.

Geno is a competent QB that you cannot reasonably expect to carry the team when it struggles. There are 8-10 QBs that are clearly better than him. There are 12-15 QBs that Geno is clearly better than. Which puts Geno somewhere between 9 and 20.

 

[JMR]

Blaming the QB is always the easiest thing to do. He is the center of the offense and involved basically in every offensive play. It's easy for fans to rationalize that if we simply had a better QB, then the entire offense would work far better. And, sure, if you replace Geno with Mahomes, the offense would be dramatically better. But even Mahomes can't make the OL better when it is both young and banged up.

Geno is a competent QB that you cannot reasonably expect to carry the team when it struggles. There are 8-10 QBs that are clearly better than him. There are 12-15 QBs that Geno is clearly better than. Which puts Geno somewhere between 9 and 20.

Yeah, I think people like to have 1 guy to blame because it sounds easier to fix than something systemic or replacing multiple O-linemen. If you just get a franchise QB, all problems are solved and you're a contender. Easy! Of course, we know it isn't.

The ultimate situation is to have a franchise level QB on a rookie or cheap contract (current 49ers, mid-teens Seahawks, etc), but we know that is way easier said than done *and* comes with a pretty short duration. Top QBs all get paid sooner or later. We saw the gradual deterioration of our roster here as Russell accounted for a greater and greater chunk of the cap, and at the same time we whiffed on drafts and therefore didn't have the amount of cheap talent that you need when your QB is making huge money. Do we really want that situation again? That's the catch-22 if you replace Geno with someone better. There are some really bad QB contracts out there that are absolutely going to make it difficult for those teams to acquire/retain talent at other places on the roster. Some will advocate for taking the gamble on drafting a QB early and putting them in there, but we've been through all that multiple times before on this board.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah, I think people like to have 1 guy to blame because it sounds easier to fix than something systemic or replacing multiple O-linemen. If you just get a franchise QB, all problems are solved and you're a contender. Easy! Of course, we know it isn't.

The ultimate situation is to have a franchise level QB on a rookie or cheap contract (current 49ers, mid-teens Seahawks, etc), but we know that is way easier said than done *and* comes with a pretty short duration. Top QBs all get paid sooner or later. We saw the gradual deterioration of our roster here as Russell accounted for a greater and greater chunk of the cap, and at the same time we whiffed on drafts and therefore didn't have the amount of cheap talent that you need when your QB is making huge money. Do we really want that situation again? That's the catch-22 if you replace Geno with someone better. There are some really bad QB contracts out there that are absolutely going to make it difficult for those teams to acquire/retain talent at other places on the roster. Some will advocate for taking the gamble on drafting a QB early and putting them in there, but we've been through all that multiple times before on this board.

The most dangerous situation for a team is to draft a good but not elite QB. Because the team is almost required to re-up them for top market dollar. And the QB is simply not worth the loss of cap and what comes with that.

 

[Anointed One]

The most dangerous situation for a team is to draft a good but not elite QB. Because the team is almost required to re-up them for top market dollar. And the QB is simply not worth the loss of cap and what comes with that.

Daniel Jones comes to mind...

 

[flyerhawk]

Daniel Jones comes to mind...

Kirk Cousins
Kyler Murray
Dak Prescott
Ryan Tannehill

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Daniel Jones comes to mind...

I would say Jones falls into the lower tier QB being paid like an above average QB based solely on one year of improvement. And a huge mistake by a poor F.O. who misused the franchise tag badly.
I think if we are to look at QBs who are above average but not cost effective in regards to overall team success, the main culprits would be Kirk Cousins and Dak Prescott. At times can look very good and almost elite but more often than not seem to come up short in the more meaningful games.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

One other thing that should be part of the conversation about Geno but for whatever reason is not considered relevant by some is what we are actually paying him relative to his comps. Saw this link of top 20 highest paid QB's in the NFL. Geno currently sitting at #18 and of those being paid more (and some a good deal more) that I would consider a downgrade from Geno are Daniel Jones, Ryan Tannehill, Russell Wilson, the current version of Deshaun Watson and Derek Carr. That's just 5 that are pretty clearly definitive. I think you could make an argument that Geno gives us everything a Dak Prescott gives the Cowboys other than putting up huge stats vs. bottom of the league teams. And I would argue that Geno has been just as good as Joe Burrow or Josh Allen to this point. Obviously, those guys have enough cache and reputation that I'm not going to say Geno is better than them but it does show how we tend to be over critical of him.
NFL QB salaries: These are the highest-paid quarterbacks in 2023

 

[flyerhawk]

Source: Clark expected to sign with Seahawks

Frank Clark, who was released by the Broncos earlier this month, is expected to sign with the Seahawks, where he began his career, a source told ESPN.

www.espn.com

Looks like Frank Clark is coming back.

Low cost way to offset the loss of Nwosu.

 

[Anointed One]

Curious to know what the contract looks like...

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Curious to know what the contract looks like...

Probably like 1 year $3M or something. He got quite a bit of signing bonus with Denver to do very little (like 50 snaps lol).

We're already 6 games into the season and apparently Clark had some interest from other teams but wanted to go back to Seattle, so I assume we'll get a bit of a discount. He's going to be getting quite a bit of snaps in Seattle and expected to play so I don't think he'll come THAT cheap... I think Hall will be good for us, but Hall is not ready IMO to be marched out there for 65% snaps. I think like Mafe easing him into the starting role over his rookie year is the better approach.

Now Nwosu/Mafe are still the starters next year, but if Hall ups his IQ and can also be out there for 65% snaps and it's just Hall/Mafe/Nwosu all rotating with Hall's capability realized (already a great athlete).... good f'ing lord.

 

[blstoker]

Geno's 2023 numbers through 6 games are pretty similar in most categories to 2022, including the completion % that critics in here said wasn't possible to duplicate.

This is a joke right? cause you're whole point is that the arguments used against Geno lack objectivity and then you spout out something so blinded by need of showing Geno positively, it stretches credibility.

Year​

Tm​

G​

GS​

Cmp​

Att​

Cmp%​

Yds​

TD​

Int​

Rate​

Sk​

Yds​

Att​

Yds​

Y/A​

TD​

Fmb​

FL​

2022​

SEA​

6​

6​

138​

188​

73.4​

1502​

9​

2​

108.1​

14​

112​

26​

125​

4.81​

1​

2​

0​

2023​

SEA​

6​

6​

129​

188​

68.6​

1391​

7​

4​

93.6​

13​

109​

18​

52​

2.9​

0​

1​

1​

Geno's number this season are objectively worse across the board than last season at this same point. Nearly every number is worse than last season. Geno rode those first six games to an arguably statistical top 5 season last year. The first six games this season has him hovering in the 15-20 range. If Geno's numbers similarly continue to be similarly down the rest of the season at the same rate they've been down this year, this is what they'd look like.

Year​

Tm​

G​

GS​

Cmp​

Att​

Cmp%​

Yds​

TD​

Int​

Rate​

Sk​

Yds​

Att​

Yds​

Y/A​

TD​

Fmb​

FL​

2022​

SEA​

17​

17​

399​

572​

69.8​

4282​

30​

11​

100.9​

46​

348​

68​

366​

4.81​

1​

8​

4​

2023​

SEA​

17​

17​

373​

572​

65.2​

3965​

23​

22​

82.7​

43​

339​

47​

152​

2.9​

0​

4​

4​

A drop in production of 7-10% across the board is rather significant.

 

[Screamin12th]

People can say he was lucky. You were saying it was some sort of historically lucky season which was absurd.



Every single QB has turnover worthy plays that don't turn into turnovers. Every single one.

You've established a standard for Geno that he can never meet because every QB, even the elite ones, make bad decisions or simply fail to execute. Go watch Josh Allen sometime.

And your constant accusations that he is lazy are downright weird.

Yes but the top 10 QB's in the NFL ( Geno isn't a top 10 he is worse ) averaged a 83% turnover rate on turnover worthy plays, Genos was in the 40% range for the exact same type of plays. Just like last week that should have been Pick 6 is caught more often than not and it was dropped thank god. Geno lead the LEAGUE in turnover worthy plays and had those turn into turnovers like they did for the "TOP 10" QB's 83% of the time then he would have had over 20 INT's. This was explained at the end of the year last year. I don't understand why some peoples minds can not understand this. Thing is someone every year has to get lucky and break the averages, last year it was Geno. Wont happen again.

His play looks lazy his footwork looks lazy his progression ... wait he HAS no progression, watch his damn head! LMAO! He is complacent, which in turn makes him look lazy. Rattle his cage a little and he will turn it on. He is not a self starter, never has been or he wouldn't have been a back up for as long as he was. He saw his chance and jumped at it then went back into Normal Geno mode. Genos 2022 season was like a players in a contract year. Not all players contract years look great but some players have HUGE years even though they were nothing before that year and they end up being nothing after. It's a story we have seen a million times. We are 6 games in and Geno is struggling, He is a Carr or Zach Wilson level QB yet some seem to think he is a top 5 or even 10. He isn't. I like to laugh at all the Hate i have seen on this board for Goff because he would 100% be a upgrade over Geno.

 

[MrS]

In other news, purdy is in concussion protocol and likely want play against the bengals.
We have a legit shot at leading the division

 

[Screamin12th]

In other news, purdy is in concussion protocol and likely want play against the bengals.
We have a legit shot at leading the division

If Geno can capture some of his 2022 magic ( With a little push from the coaching staff ) the Hawks could catch the 49ers. If Geno can do that I can see the Hawks going 4-0 in the next 4 games. Yes the Defense will need to continue to play like the best unit in the NFL but even if they do with out Geno finding some of his 2022 magic it will be tough to go 4-0. If they can, then at 8-2 going into the first 49er game we could be looking at the two division leaders facing off for the first of 2 meetings in a 3 week period.

The 49ers get the Bengals This weekend in Levi stadium and who knows, maybe that bad Bengals team can take a step forward and beat a 49er team if Purdy is out. That's a tall ask because the 49ers are a great team all around they do not have to rely on their QB to play great. Imagine the 49ers going into their Bye tied for first with Seattle. That wouldn't sit well with them or their fans.

Unlike the 49ers the Hawks are very dependent I think on Geno playing better. If he continues to play like he has for most of this year we might not win but 4 more games IF we are lucky. Going to need to run the ball 30+ times a game and limit Geno's guaranteed brain farts.

 

[JMR]

This is a joke right? cause you're whole point is that the arguments used against Geno lack objectivity and then you spout out something so blinded by need of showing Geno positively, it stretches credibility.

Year​

Tm​

G​

GS​

Cmp​

Att​

Cmp%​

Yds​

TD​

Int​

Rate​

Sk​

Yds​

Att​

Yds​

Y/A​

TD​

Fmb​

FL​

2022​

SEA​

6​

6​

138​

188​

73.4​

1502​

9​

2​

108.1​

14​

112​

26​

125​

4.81​

1​

2​

0​

2023​

SEA​

6​

6​

129​

188​

68.6​

1391​

7​

4​

93.6​

13​

109​

18​

52​

2.9​

0​

1​

1​

Geno's number this season are objectively worse across the board than last season at this same point. Nearly every number is worse than last season. Geno rode those first six games to an arguably statistical top 5 season last year. The first six games this season has him hovering in the 15-20 range. If Geno's numbers similarly continue to be similarly down the rest of the season at the same rate they've been down this year, this is what they'd look like.

Year​

Tm​

G​

GS​

Cmp​

Att​

Cmp%​

Yds​

TD​

Int​

Rate​

Sk​

Yds​

Att​

Yds​

Y/A​

TD​

Fmb​

FL​

2022​

SEA​

17​

17​

399​

572​

69.8​

4282​

30​

11​

100.9​

46​

348​

68​

366​

4.81​

1​

8​

4​

2023​

SEA​

17​

17​

373​

572​

65.2​

3965​

23​

22​

82.7​

43​

339​

47​

152​

2.9​

0​

4​

4​

A drop in production of 7-10% across the board is rather significant.

No, what I said/meant was what's done so far this year looks like what he did last year. You took it to mean through 6 games vs through 6 games, which is a different set of numbers.

 

[blstoker]

No, what I said/meant was what's done so far this year looks like what he did last year. You took it to mean through 6 games vs through 6 games, which is a different set of numbers.

In what way does Geno look like last season? In nearly every measurable way Geno has not been as good this year as last.

Now, if you want to extrapolate that Geno's numbers are similar through 6 games as the entire season of 2022, then I guess you can, but you'd still be arguably wrong.

Year​

Tm​

G​

GS​

Cmp​

Att​

Cmp%​

Yds​

TD​

Int​

Rate​

Sk​

Yds​

Att​

Yds​

Y/A​

TD​

Fmb​

FL​

2022​

SEA​

17​

17​

399​

572​

69.8​

4282​

30​

11​

100.9​

46​

348​

68​

366​

4.81​

1​

8​

4​

2023​

SEA​

17​

17​

366​

533​

68.7​

3941​

20​

11​

94​

37​

309​

51​

147​

2.88​

0​

3​

3​

His current rates are still significantly down as compared to last year. This, while playing only 1 team whose defense would be considered as being within the top half of the NFL - and that just barely. The big concern I have for the Browns game is that our offense has been bad at times this season against bad defenses and the Browns appear to have an excellent defense this season.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Looking at our remaining schedule, we absolutely need to win this game vs. the Browns with them banged up a bit and us at home. I don't need Geno to be great, just play mistake free. Winning ugly is just fine with me. After that....
@ Ravens- Not expecting it to be even close. We get blown out by Lamar. And they might have Derek Henry by then too.
vs Commanders- Can't take them lightly but fully expect a big bounce back win
@ Rams- They always give us trouble but no way we get ambushed like week 1, imo.
so that has us at 7-3 going into Thanksgiving Thursday vs the 9ers who I think will also be 7-3 because I think they lose their third straight vs Burrow and the Bengals this week. We need to win that one and ensure a split with them if we have any thought of being a legit play-off contender.
@ Cowboys- The most unpredictable team on the slate. Frankly, if the Hawks are playing our best ball, we can beat those bums but at home they are a much better team and are a complete mystery as to which team shows up. Gonna be a close game. I'll be optimistic and call it a win.
@ 49ers- A loss. I can't see us winning that but if the 9ers get the injury bug, who knows. Maybe we get lucky.
vs. Eagles- Likely a loss but Hurts has played well below par from last season and is turning the ball over a lot so at home. we have a punchers shot. The Eagles are loaded in the trenches though and will be rolling to the 1 seed in all likelihood.
@ Titans- They are an awful team who will be in full tank mode. Absolutely should blow them away. Anything less than a 3 score victory would be a choke on our part.
vs. Steelers- Will they still be in the hunt? Tough defense but we should be able to win ugly. THeir offense is and still will be trash.
@ Cardinals- Need to worry about them playing spoiler but honestly, we should win this game and get ready for the play-offs. We could be resting a couple of guys though if our seeding is set.

So, 11-6 or 12-5 not out of the realm of possibility overall which I think is a pretty good step up in the right direction. Especially if we can get the 5 seed and possibly ( read should) beat the NFCS winner in the WC round. About what I had hoped for at the start of the year. With lucky bounces, good health and maybe some of the top teams getting banged up or stumbling, we could be even more successful but not counting on that. And all of that would be with Geno just being good enough. Not spectacular but making the plays that are out there. Keeping the mistakes minimal and our defense staying healthy and continuing to improve. There are no real juggernauts in the league this year. Every team has flaws and hopefully we get them on down weeks.