Both Shaq and Dr. J have Karl Malone in their top 10 all-time… Are they really that off base?

[Picklerick 2.0]

That is all fine.

But he shut down over a personal definition basically.

That is trash.

I just have a higher standard for what that means to me. And I explained that.

You don’t have to agree.

And he also called prime Bird “the most dominant player ever”.

So who is more skewed here?

I really don't like to get this involved but what personal definition are you referencing? You stating they were not a dominant duo is THE discussion.

 

[Mecca]

That is all fine.

But he shut down over a personal definition basically.

That is trash.

I just have a higher standard for what that means to me. And I explained that.

You don’t have to agree.

And he also called prime Bird “the most dominant player ever”.

So who is more skewed here?

Who are you talking about, Pickle?

I didn’t even read all the posts between you two.

I don’t think your opinion is skewed at all.

It’s just different from mine.

I think Tiiiiiiiiiiimmy was better than Malone and I think Stockton and Malone are a top 10 duo Historically.

 

[tlance]

Who are you talking about, Pickle?

I didn’t even read all the posts between you two.

I don’t think your opinion is skewed at all.

It’s just different from mine.

I think Tiiiiiiiiiiimmy was better than Malone and I think Stockton and Malone are a top 10 duo Historically.

Yeah, I would probably agree with all of that.

 

[MHSL82]

Stockton and Malone are yet another casualty of Jordan. People don't really grasp the insane dominance he had.

Were they a causality of Jordan?

For sure.

But they really weren’t nearly as dominant as you are making them out to be.

I totally read @Picklerick 2.0 ’s comment to state that people don’t really grasp how dominant Jordan was in that he stopped even the best Stockton/Malone team, the one that finally got through the west. I didn’t think he was calling Stockton and Malone dominant as much as he was Jordan. But that just goes to show how differently people can read the exact same words.

By the way, @tlance , I wasn’t trying to state that Malone was better than Duncan. I was trying to state that I wanted Duncan to be a different position (center) so Malone would be presented as a power forward compared to other power forwards and not compared to Duncan. I used stats to present him compared to Duncan’s stats because if one (Duncan) was great and Malone had better stats in some categories, the power forward argument absent Duncan would be clearer… yes, my argument/approach was convolutes and strange.

 

[tlance]

I totally read @Picklerick 2.0 ’s comment to state that people don’t really grasp how dominant Jordan was in that he stopped even the best Stockton/Malone team, the one that finally got through the west. I didn’t think he was calling Stockton and Malone dominant as much as he was Jordan. But that just goes to show how differently people can read the exact same words.

By the way, @tlance , I wasn’t trying to state that Malone was better than Duncan. I was trying to state that I wanted Duncan to be a different position (center) so Malone would be presented as a power forward compared to other power forwards and not compared to Duncan. I used stats to present him compared to Duncan’s stats because if one (Duncan) was great and Malone had better stats in some categories, the power forward argument absent Duncan would be clearer… yes, my argument/approach was convolutes and strange.

I agree with all of that. And if Duncan is a center, Malone is the best PF of all time. Just a lot of centers and wings who have better resumes still.

I am always pumping the breaks on titles being overvalued in all time debates. If Malone were leading a team by himself like Ewing in NY, it would be less of an issue for me.

But, if you are the best PF ever, and play alongside one of the top 5 PGs of all time…

There is no excuse for not finding a way to break though.

 

[Picklerick 2.0]

That is all fine.

But he shut down over a personal definition basically.

That is trash.

I just have a higher standard for what that means to me. And I explained that.

You don’t have to agree.

And he also called prime Bird “the most dominant player ever”.

So who is more skewed here?

Who shut down? What personal definition are you referring to? I leave a site for awhile and your donkey ass seems to take that as a victory lap.

 

[Picklerick 2.0]

No, you are hung up on semantics of a definition of a word.

You didn’t attempt to have a discussion with me, you went straight to insults.

That is incredibly lame.

I'm sorry that I didn't invent the English language and that your idea of what words mean is different than the actual definition.

 

[tlance]

Who shut down? What personal definition are you referring to? I leave a site for awhile and your donkey ass seems to take that as a victory lap.

You are a part timer here.

You won’t engage in an actual conversation with me because you can’t. I have forgotten more about basketball than you know.

Run along now.

 

[tlance]

I'm sorry that I didn't invent the English language and that your idea of what words mean is different than the actual definition.

Dominant = overpowering

Dominant duos in the NBA win titles.

Simple as that.

There was 1 dominant duo in the 90s. Jordan and Pippen.

 

[Picklerick 2.0]

Dominant = overpowering

Dominant duos in the NBA win titles.

Simple as that.

There was 1 dominant duo in the 90s. Jordan and Pippen.

Titles are a team accomplishment. You think you can't be dominant unless you win a title? Do you think Barkley was dominant? Yayaya he wasn't a duo, but I'm questioning your specific definition of the word dominant.

 

[Picklerick 2.0]

You are a part timer here.

You won’t engage in an actual conversation with me because you can’t. I have forgotten more about basketball than you know.

Run along now.

So terribly sorry that I have a son with severe Crohn's disease in the hospital right now and I also have a 14 month old, a mortgage, car payments, etc.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Stockton and Malone are yet another casualty of Jordan. People don't really grasp the insane dominance he had.

yes and no. I don't love their rotation beyond those two and they definitely weren't Warriors, Spurs, Lakers level from this century. but they were easily the best team from the west Jordan beat.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

If you're really old like me, You remember the Lakers playing in Minnesota.

Russell and Chamberlain
Oscar, Heinson, The best 6th Man
DR. J. Bird, Magic and MJ
Kobe, Shaq,
LeBron, Joker, Curry, Durant

And there will always be tomorrow.

No two will ever agree on the top ten.

When I'm dead and gone, Half of my above list won't even be in the conversation.

I always beat the same drum about Russell. Best champion the sport has ever had. But put him in this era and he's Ben Wallace. His game was perfect for how the league played then...breakneck pace with a bunch of horrible shooting. That is as much why he got so many rebounds as his overall prowess.

 

[tlance]

Titles are a team accomplishment. You think you can't be dominant unless you win a title? Do you think Barkley was dominant? Yayaya he wasn't a duo, but I'm questioning your specific definition of the word dominant.

Of course titles are a team accomplishment.

100% agree.

Dominant is overpowering. Easily The best

You wouldn’t say a team that finished 2nd is dominant.

And they clearly weren’t the best duo of their era.

So to me they can’t be dominant.

I won’t knock an individual for failing to win a title on a relatively weak roster, but a duo is different.

If you have 2 truly great players who spend their careers together in their primes, they got to break through.

And it isn’t like they lost to the Bulls 5 times. They lost to a lot of different teams. Sometimes early.

 

[msgkings322]

Nothing more interesting than arguments over the meaning of an adjective.

 

[logic]

Nothing more interesting than arguments over the meaning of an adjective.

Right! Let's go back to disecting Ben Simmons departure from the 6ers some more.

 

[msgkings322]

Right! Let's go back to directing Ben Simmons departure from the 6ers some more.

I don't think we finished covering LeBron vs Jordan or if the Browns were the only team to offer Watson big money yet.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Of course titles are a team accomplishment.

100% agree.

Dominant is overpowering. Easily The best

You wouldn’t say a team that finished 2nd is dominant.

And they clearly weren’t the best duo of their era.

So to me they can’t be dominant.

I won’t knock an individual for failing to win a title on a relatively weak roster, but a duo is different.

If you have 2 truly great players who spend their careers together in their primes, they got to break through.

And it isn’t like they lost to the Bulls 5 times. They lost to a lot of different teams. Sometimes early.

Maybe I have a bit of recency bias but Duncan had a much better supporting cast than Malone. Let's argue for a second Stockton is clearly better than Parker (which as a scorer is very arguable) so that's one for Malone but beyond that we are looking at Robinson, Stephen Jackson for one, Kawhi, Manu etc

way better fits around Duncan in terms of guys that can either create like Manu or be a paint presence the D has to respect in Robinson...and then Kawhi....even Bowen who can lock down the other teams best player.

All that said my point is the Jazz's "failings" were less about Malone and Stockton and more about the pieces around them.

 

[seattlefan75]

I think that it is one of those things where as fans we go off of stats and rings but whenever you ask players about other players they go off of their experience playing against or with him. I guess an example is that both Tracy Mcgrady and Allen Iverson aren't in the top 50 in scoring or have rings but if you ask any player who they would rather guard they would choose Rasheed Wallace who is in the top 50 and has a ring.

 

[tlance]

I think that it is one of those things where as fans we go off of stats and rings but whenever you ask players about other players they go off of their experience playing against or with him. I guess an example is that both Tracy Mcgrady and Allen Iverson aren't in the top 50 in scoring or have rings but if you ask any player who they would rather guard they would choose Rasheed Wallace who is in the top 50 and has a ring.

Common sense has to prevail at some point.

This whole convo started about who is top 10 all time.

So many great players.

As @trojanfan12 always says, rings are tie breakers. Malone and Duncan have very similar resumes except for 1 category.

Anybody who is ranking Rasheed Wallace over Allen Iverson has a screw loose, IMO.