Better FA signing

[calsnowskier]

Player 1 -- 1 year / 7.5M

3-4, 3.23 ERA, 9 GS, 55.2 IP, 35/9 K/BB, 1.293 WHIP

Player 2 -- 1 year / 1M

3-5, 5.68 ERA, 11 GS, 58.2 IP, 41/35 K/BB, 1.568 WHIP

I am not asking who was the better player. I am asking who was the better FA signing?

 

[nateistheshi]

With how few innings they threw, neither one of them seems like much of a value to me, so if you're the Yankees or Redsox player 1, if you're a baseball team player 2. Care if I make a guess as to which one of them is which?

 

[calsnowskier]

With how few innings they threw, neither one of them seems like much of a value to me, so if you're the Yankees or Redsox player 1, if you're a baseball team player 2. Care if I make a guess as to which one of them is which?

This is to spark discussion. Have at it...

 

[Kendal]

Just using Fangraph's value numbers:
Player 1 was worth $4.3 million and was paid $7.5 million. A $3.2 million difference.
Player 2 was worth -$2.6 million and was paid $1 million. A $3.6 million difference.

Player 1 was a better signing if you have an unlimited budget. Or if you dont, player 2 is better because you could probably find a player/players with the remaining $6.5 million that would provide more than the $0.4 million difference between the two players.

 

[nateistheshi]

Based on the K/BB ratio, the ERA of 5.68, and the 1M paycheck, I think player 2 is Todd Wellemeyer (and yes for those few starts he made he should've paid us $2.6M.) If player 2 is Wellemeyer, then it would make perfect sense to compare him to either Bumgarner or Brad Penny, but since I know that Bumgarner is making the league minimum, has more than 9 starts, and has better control than that I'm going with Penny.

So player 1 is Brad Penny and douchebag 2 is Todd Wellemeyer. Am I right?

 

[calsnowskier]

Based on the K/BB ratio, the ERA of 5.68, and the 1M paycheck, I think player 2 is Todd Wellemeyer (and yes for those few starts he made he should've paid us $2.6M.) If player 2 is Wellemeyer, then it would make perfect sense to compare him to either Bumgarner or Brad Penny, but since I know that Bumgarner is making the league minimum, has more than 9 starts, and has better control than that I'm going with Penny.

So player 1 is Brad Penny and douchebag 2 is Todd Wellemeyer. Am I right?

Very good...

My point in this thread is to look back at all the hand ringing that was done at the beginning of the season when Sabean "let Penny walk" or "made the Penny for Wellemeyer trade".

For any team other than the yanks, and MAYBE Boston, Wellemeyer was arguably a better signing when you factor in the money.

 

[nateistheshi]

Very good...

My point in this thread is to look back at all the hand ringing that was done at the beginning of the season when Sabean "let Penny walk" or "made the Penny for Wellemeyer trade".

For any team other than the yanks, and MAYBE Boston, Wellemeyer was arguably a better signing when you factor in the money.

You mean to say "for real baseball teams Wellemeyer was arguably a better signing." hahaha, and yes I agree that Wellemeyer turned out to be a better value, but if Madbum wasn't ready by mid-August, then possibly someone could argue that having Wellemeyer over Penny could have cost us a playoff spot (just counting the starts Penny did make.)

 

[calsnowskier]

Penny had a history of injury, a history of being a head case, and was demanding ridiculous money.

Letting Penny walk was the absolute right thing to do. Now maybe there was a better guy out there than Welle, that is not my point. But Welle was a better risk/reward than Penny, especially when we had 3 near-MLB ready pitchers in the wings (Pucetas, Sosa, Bum) and Martinez to use in a pinch.

 

[ColinCoby]

Who was the jackass at the ESPN board who was flipping out about the Giants not resigning Penny? Was it Cazic?

 

[calsnowskier]

Who was the jackass at the ESPN board who was flipping out about the Giants not resigning Penny? Was it Cazic?

I seem to think it was Nolan, but I am too lazy to look back and find out...

 

[nateistheshi]

Penny had a history of injury, a history of being a head case, and was demanding ridiculous money.

Letting Penny walk was the absolute right thing to do. Now maybe there was a better guy out there than Welle, that is not my point. But Welle was a better risk/reward than Penny, especially when we had 3 near-MLB ready pitchers in the wings (Pucetas, Sosa, Bum) and Martinez to use in a pinch.

Wellemeyer ties him in 1/3 of those categories. I do think that Penny wouldn't have been worth what he was asking for, but at the same time, if there was nobody in the minors that was a suitable replacement, then you either have to go with Penny, or you have to get another good hitter (nobody thought Huff would be quite this good.) If the Giants had no replacement for Wellemeyer ready to take over, then leaving him on this team would be like the front office saying "whatever, this guy is cheap and that's all that matters, competing isn't important."

 

[calsnowskier]

Wellemeyer ties him in 1/3 of those categories. I do think that Penny wouldn't have been worth what he was asking for, but at the same time, if there was nobody in the minors that was a suitable replacement, then you either have to go with Penny, or you have to get another good hitter (nobody thought Huff would be quite this good.) If the Giants had no replacement for Wellemeyer ready to take over, then leaving him on this team would be like the front office saying "whatever, this guy is cheap and that's all that matters, competing isn't important."

I think they were counting on one of the 3 kids being ready if needed. The fact that Pucetas blew up and Sosa refuses to improve hurt, and Bums early season troubles probably scared the org, but ultimately, it did not make sense to dump a lot of money into the #5 position with 3 prospects and one legit 6 already in the org.

I agree that a bat was needed, but there was not anyone that fit the bill. LaRoche LUCKILY turned us down, as did Johnson. Bay is a water buffalo in the field and Holliday was asking for HUGE money after only 1 season outside of Denver. Huff was a good option left over after the real targets went elsewhere. I was happy with the off-season take made by the team (save for DeRosa, which in 20/20 hind sight seamed a likely injury candidate).

 

[SFGRTB]

We should thank Wellemyer for what he did for us.

If it weren't for him, we would have handed the 5th spot to MadBum, though at the time, he clearly wasn't ready/in shape or whatever was wrong with him. He has never failed at ANY level he's pitched in, so if he were to fail misserably in the ML, it could have been catostrofic. He leaned about failing in AAA, but then corrected his problems and has now dominated for us in the ML.

Or maybe I'm just crazy...

 

[calsnowskier]

We should thank Wellemyer for what he did for us.

If it weren't for him, we would have handed the 5th spot to MadBum, though at the time, he clearly wasn't ready/in shape or whatever was wrong with him. He has never failed at ANY level he's pitched in, so if he were to fail misserably in the ML, it could have been catostrofic. He leaned about failing in AAA, but then corrected his problems and has now dominated for us in the ML.

Or maybe I'm just crazy...

Not sure I would go as far to "thank" Welly, but I agree with everything else you say...

 

[tzill]

We should thank Wellemyer for what he did for us.

If it weren't for him, we would have handed the 5th spot to MadBum, though at the time, he clearly wasn't ready/in shape or whatever was wrong with him. He has never failed at ANY level he's pitched in, so if he were to fail misserably in the ML, it could have been catostrofic. He leaned about failing in AAA, but then corrected his problems and has now dominated for us in the ML.

Or maybe I'm just crazy...

By that line of logic, I guess we should chastise Bum for not pitching better in ST and taking the job outright.

 

[SFGRTB]

By that line of logic, I guess we should chastise Bum for not pitching better in ST and taking the job outright.

Or for getting married, since most people pointed to that as to why he struggled

 

[xxERICSMITHXX]

I was glad that the Giants didn't try and bring back Penny. He simply wanted too much money for the Giants to afford on a 4th/5th starter, plus he was a bit of an injury risk. Although, I wouldn't have been upset if the Giants had split the difference and gotten someone better than Wellemyer. I have no idea who was available at the time, but I would have been fine with in house options instead.