Article on NH at BucsDugout

[magnumo]

The link below yields an article by Charlie Wilmoth at BucsDugout..... which I find to be particularly insightful and well-written. Charlie is well known among many Pirate fans for the quality of both his research and his writing. Historically, he has been supportive of the current front office and has advocated patience. The article seems to indicate that Charlie's patience is beginning to wear thin.

In my opinion, whether or not you agree with his conclusions in whole or in part, the article provides a lot of perspective and is worth a read:

2012 Should Be A Crucial Season For Neal Huntington - Bucs Dugout

 

[Illinest]

The link below yields an article by Charlie Wilmoth at BucsDugout..... which I find to be particularly insightful and well-written. Charlie is well known among many Pirate fans for the quality of both his research and his writing. Historically, he has been supportive of the current front office and has advocated patience. The article seems to indicate that Charlie's patience is beginning to wear thin.

In my opinion, whether or not you agree with his conclusions in whole or in part, the article provides a lot of perspective and is worth a read:

2012 Should Be A Crucial Season For Neal Huntington - Bucs Dugout

We didn't have an issue with the fact that major-leaguers were getting traded - we had an issue with the returns. The Jason Bay return seemed bad from the start. Bay was still a quality player when we traded him and we should've gotten some quality back. The Nady return seemed kind of bad too although in retrospect it's hard to be too upset about that. The Sanchez trade seemed great until you found out about Alderson's velocity drop. The Bautista trade didn't make sense on any level. The only trade that I liked was the Mclouth trade - and I admit that I was probably one of the only ones who thought that way.

Rather than pick apart each individual deal I think you can take a lesson from the broader trend. NH consistently traded established players for a bunch of mid-level prospects. Not a single blue-chipper was returned in any trade. He aimed low - and that's my main complaint. It was my complaint then too.

We envisioned acquiring players to build around - and if the market dictated that it took Bay PLUS Nady to acquire a blue-chipper then that's what should've happened.

 

[thecrow124]

There is a very similar article that went up on Pirates Prospects today. Must be national pile on Neil day.

 

[evolver115]

There is a very similar article that went up on Pirates Prospects today. Must be national pile on Neil day.

Do you think it's deserved? Even though I felt that the general opinion of the article Mags posted here is that the author just wants to see these drafts of Neil's start to bear fruit, and not necessarily a discredit to Huntington.

It is a big season for him. He can't hide behind the Littlefield buffoonery, anymore. Neil's fingerprints are now all over this organization.

 

[thecrow124]

Do you think it's deserved? Even though I felt that the general opinion of the article Mags posted here is that the author just wants to see these drafts of Neil's start to bear fruit, and not necessarily a discredit to Huntington.

It is a big season for him. He can't hide behind the Littlefield buffoonery, anymore. Neil's fingerprints are now all over this organization.

No I don't think it is deserved. As a matter of fact, the PP article goes out of their way to show it is not deserved, then say that this is a big year for Neil and if there isn't significant progress he should be let go.

For the most part his trades have been average, pretty middle of the road. However, element points out that small market teams cannot be average in trades. IMO, they are doing above average if they are average. Let us not forget that a smaller budget means smaller staffs and less scouting. When teams make trades they are trying to get rid of players that they feel are not going to become productive major leaguers. The only reports small market GM's have is what the experts are saying. Looking back we all have to admit that he has made good bad and indifferent trades. From day 1 he has said his focus would be on building a dominant minor league system. To build anything you start at the bottom and work up from there. The bigger and stronger the base the better the foundation for a strong powerful building.

The part of his GMship that is getting to me is his seeming total neglect in the major league team. I liked the draft this year, but personally I would have preferred Prince Fielder to Cole and Bell. I like the fact that he is acquiring minor league talent and I am sure I see that talent different than most anyone else. I just think he is having trouble seeing the forrest for all the trees in his way. No one that pays money to see the Pirates could care less how good the minor league system is, they just want to see the Pirates win.

To wrap this up, in 4the years it is still way to early to evaluate the drafts he has made. However he has been given sufficient time and resources to at least have a positive effect on the major league roster, and that has not happened, and that is the sentiment of both articles.

 

[element1286]

I think it is a huge year for the NH regime. I'm not sold that Neal is the guy to take the org to the next level, but I think he has done a good job getting the org from the depths of Dave Littlefield to where it stands now.

This I would like to see (in no particular order).
1. See some of the high upside bonus baby types break out and become top 100ish prospects, thus rocketing the Pirates up the prospect charts.
2. NH make a good baseball trade to acquire a proven major leaguer under the age of 30, who will be on the team past his season, for the sake of argument Gavin Floyd from the White Sox.
3. See some guys on the ML roster who still have some upside left actually realize that upside, ie Tabata, Presley, Morton, McDonald, and of course Pedro.
4. Win 82 games and break the streak.

NH and the org don't have to accomplish all of those next year, but 2 out of 4 would be enough for me in 2012.

Also, the handling of the Andrew McCutchen extension is huge issue. (Although I loath adding this sentence because I don't want this to turn into an Andrew McCutchen extension rumor thread).

 

[thedddd]

I agree this is a big year for him and like the items above are stated.

There is one big factor here. What we expect and want in a GM seems to be totally different than ownership wants out him.

To be honest we would hope it is a winner but he might be doing exactly what they want, teasing the fan base with some prospects and signings but showing a continued profit.

 

[Etrius24]

NH... definitely must like a challenge...

Small market team
Took over for a bad Gm to run a team that was in need of a complete overhaul.

Now I know he has had a few years to make his mark... and I have read reports that the Bucs have money to spend... I have as of yet ( mags will give us the numbers I am sure ) But I have as of yet to see anything specific in terms of what freedoms NH has been given with the payroll of this team....

I only say this because every year on several message boards there is a sentiment from many fans that they want the pirates to be buyers instead of sellers... This means taking on payroll and giving up prospects (which is tough to do when you are a small market team built and dependent solely on prospects.)... To be fair to NH how much freedom does he have to make these moves? How much payroll can he add to this team?..Without knowing it is hard to be overly critical... IMHO

 

[thecrow124]

NH... definitely must like a challenge...

Small market team
Took over for a bad Gm to run a team that was in need of a complete overhaul.

Now I know he has had a few years to make his mark... and I have read reports that the Bucs have money to spend... I have as of yet ( mags will give us the numbers I am sure ) But I have as of yet to see anything specific in terms of what freedoms NH has been given with the payroll of this team....
I only say this because every year on several message boards there is a sentiment from many fans that they want the pirates to be buyers instead of sellers... This means taking on payroll and giving up prospects (which is tough to do when you are a small market team built and dependent solely on prospects.)... To be fair to NH how much freedom does he have to make these moves? How much payroll can he add to this team?..Without knowing it is hard to be overly critical... IMHO

Are you referring to the 2012 season or are you making a general statement for the lifetime of NH's tenure? If you are talking about the upcoming season, it would be idiotic to say exactly how much flexability he has, so knowing that, the only thing you would expect to hear is generalizations and inuendoes.
The following article should answer your question, go to the last quote from Frank Coonelly, he stated that the opening day payroll would be, not might be, but would be higher than the end of 2011 (52.6 million) and would have flexibility to add a piece if necessary.

Pirates Prospects Interview from Piratefest – Neal Huntington and Frank Coonelly

So knowing that, I would refer everyone to my post on "Why are the Pirates being so quiet?", They have payroll room, currently sitting at roughly a $46 million payroll.

IMHO if he is given the ability to spend money, he should spend it freely. If there are just no FA's that he likes and no willing trade partners that could upgrade the opening day roster, then go out and seriously work to sign Cutch and Walker long term. The part about him doing nothing to help the Pittsburgh Pirates major league team is what is grating on most people.