Another 5 Years or More Miami

[Clayton]

I feel like there is a ton of after the fact comments on Stroud

give me receipts that anyone said he was an every 5 year guy. his S2 test would've bombed his draft ranking If not for Houston taking a chance

I never doubted CJ. but I'm also a homer. But I watched that dude throw an absolutely beautiful ball for 2 years and we saw it again yesterday. The best dbs in the league in man coverage couldn't phase his passing ability.

I doubted him but I think I misunderstood what he was doing. I thought Harrison bailed Stroud out on a lot of balls but in reality Stroud was just throwing it to where only he could get it and was actually quite accurate.

I don't think their offensive philosophy is that much of a problem. They run the ball well and just don't air it out like say the Chargers. The Chiefs and Spagnolo were smart last night and totally took that away so that goes back to Tua. Fwiw, I don't think Tua is some awful QB. He has several good points. But he does have a below average arm and he isn't a guy that can put the team on his back and take them where they need to go. The Dolphins are in a tough spot here. He is going into his 5th year option at $23 mil or whatever it is and his agents are going to ask Miami's FO for a long term extension. They are in that no man's land of having no options for an actual upgrade while having a QB that isn't worth upwords of $45 mil for 4-5 years. Their only prayer of being a legit contender and it's a slim prayer is that they have the #1 seed and home field and continue to build that roster. The defensive injuries hurt them for sure but they aren't winning shit in a cold weather/ windy environment with a weak arm at QB. They are in a conference that has Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson and now Stroud and Herbert. Teams and QBs with big arms or massive talent and for the most part know how to win and Tua just doesn't stack up to that. There is no easy answer here and no sugar coating it. They won't have any high draft picks because they will be a perrennial 10+ win team in the play-offs getting beat by tougher competition.

Miami reminds me a lot of where the Chiefs were with Alex Smith. Good team but without a big arm QB there wasn't really a way to maximize the special speed of the two star skill players. Admittedly their defense was probably also too banged up to play this year and nobody really survives that but they either need to upgrade QBs immediately or start building around their defense.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I think a lot of people actually said Stroud had rare pocket passer talent. The questions seemed to be about his head, and whether he had the fire in the belly as well as smarts to be a franchise QB, since his tenure at Ohio State was seen as a mild disappointment.

Some of that frankly may have been racist IMO. Because he was not Lamar or Hurts as a mobile QB making plays on the move and when things broke down, people didn't know how to evaluate him. He's actually a good athlete as he has shown, who can run "off script" just fine. It's just a funny criticism because you didn't hear that criticism too much about many other Qbs with different melanin.

I personally thought Young was much better to be honest, because he seemed to be a better field general in college. In hindsight, that was probably all coaching, the difference between Saban and Ryan Day, and people projected it on the Qbs.

Even just pure college stats

CJ almost 70 percent completion
Bryce 65.5

and yards per completion were 1.3 higher

If Bryce is 6 foot I am 6 foot 4 (I'm 6 foot) and Cj is 6 foot 3 (6 foot 7 in Bryce Young math)

further he wasn't/ isn't a runner anymore than CJ is... so he doesn't even give you what Kyler does to make up for his size.

I felt it was a no Brainer (again biased) but the S2 test results really fucked with the evaluation

everything I'm hearing is CJ didn't even try

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I doubted him but I think I misunderstood what he was doing. I thought Harrison bailed Stroud out on a lot of balls but in reality Stroud was just throwing it to where only he could get it and was actually quite accurate.

it's easy to confuse him with Haskins (I was down on him from day 1) and Fields to a lesser extent.

Fields and Stroud couldn't be more different other than both being black.

There is so much football it's easy to miss a guy like Stroud being seen as
special from a fans perspective. I'm more just surprised so many NFL guys undersold him

 

[HuskerOC]

I think a lot of people actually said Stroud had rare pocket passer talent. The questions seemed to be about his head, and whether he had the fire in the belly as well as smarts to be a franchise QB, since his tenure at Ohio State was seen as a mild disappointment.

Some of that frankly may have been racist IMO. Because he was not Lamar or Hurts as a mobile QB making plays on the move and when things broke down, people didn't know how to evaluate him. He's actually a good athlete as he has shown, who can run "off script" just fine. It's just a funny criticism because you didn't hear that criticism too much about many other Qbs with different melanin.

I personally thought Young was much better to be honest, because he seemed to be a better field general in college. In hindsight, that was probably all coaching, the difference between Saban and Ryan Day, and people projected it on the Qbs.

Meh, I think NFL QB racism finally left the door when Lamar Jackson rolled to NFL MVP.

Dude was a 2nd rounder, and nowadays would have been a bonafide overall #1 pick without any question.

White statue QBs are long gone, and the years of Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Dan Marino, and Joe Montana are simply relics of the past.

To be honest, I devalue Drake Maye in this year's draft simply because he is white and can't move a pocket or throw a ball with accuracy with a twisted differentiated body. He is the old school NFL QB that the days have passed.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I really question whether the Dolphins can win anything with their offensive philosophy. The whole track team on a football field thing is going to be hard in the postseason, especially in colder weather, as we saw last night.

Idk, the Chiefs used to be really good at just that. I think Tua just isn’t built like that. Point and shoot guy, but doesn’t add as much as people think. Is exposed on lesser teams. Jared Goff of the AFC.

 

[Iggloo]

Granted, I am not sure I would have paid Lamar a huge contract either because I think his style of play could lead to an injury shortened career.

But unfortunately I think racial prejudices still affect how scouts and owners view these QBs. In the case of Stroud, I almost think it was like a reverse racism, that he "played the game like a white guy" who was "a system QB" instead of ad libbing on the run all the time, and some scouts didn't know what to make of him.

Those were actually strengths in his game that were somehow twisted into weaknesses in the evaluating process.

 

[Clayton]

it's easy to confuse him with Haskins (I was down on him from day 1) and Fields to a lesser extent.

Fields and Stroud couldn't be more different other than both being black.

There is so much football it's easy to miss a guy like Stroud being seen as
special from a fans perspective. I'm more just surprised so many NFL guys undersold him

Haskins was a project coming out. Easy to see the upside but he really just dumped the ball off to Parris Cambell a lot IIRC. He was really rough at the deep stuff.

Fields...I think the comp on him was a mix of Cam Newton and Wentz which is a bit weird but Fields is a unique prospect. Fields made a ton of big plays in college. He is still probably going to be a starter for another few years but I suspect he'll never be a franchise guy.

Stroud's game against Georgia he looked better than a lot of NFL QBs while he was in college. I think he was seen as a better QB prospect than Fields but with the testing and Ohio State history it was easy to be skeptical. Stroud is a year younger than Jayden Daniels. Probably would've gone #1 if the Panthers would've let the coach pick.

 

[HuskerOC]

Idk, the Chiefs used to be really good at just that. I think Tua just isn’t built like that. Point and shoot guy, but doesn’t add as much as people think. Is exposed on lesser teams. Jared Goff of the AFC.

Hey at least Goff has been to a Super Bowl, isn't 6' foot nothing and can sling it with just about anybody.

 

[HuskerOC]

Granted, I am not sure I would have paid Lamar a huge contract either because I think his style of play could lead to an injury shortened career.

But unfortunately I think racial prejudices still affect how scouts and owners view these QBs. In the case of Stroud, I almost think it was like a reverse racism, that he "played the game like a white guy" who was "a system QB" instead of ad libbing on the run all the time, and some scouts didn't know what to make of him.

Those were actually strengths in his game that were somehow twisted into weaknesses in the evaluating process.

Seriously?

In a league in which Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, and Jalen Hurts are recognized as the 3 best QBs?

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Hey at least Goff has been to a Super Bowl, isn't 6' foot nothing and can sling it with just about anybody.

If you give him a top 5 or 8 roster or so, sure. Frontrunner though.

 

[HuskerOC]

If you give him a top 5 or 8 roster or so, sure. Frontrunner though.

Very true.

 

[Iggloo]

Seriously?

In a league in which Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, and Jalen Hurts are recognized as the 3 best QBs?

I think we’re beyond the point where NFL teams question having black QBs for sure. But I question whether some are being fairly evaluated. The Stroud narrative looks really dumb in hindsight and you have to wonder imo. Maybe you’re right and it’s just teams being dumb as usual.

 

[Sgt Brutus]

Granted, I am not sure I would have paid Lamar a huge contract either because I think his style of play could lead to an injury shortened career.

But unfortunately I think racial prejudices still affect how scouts and owners view these QBs. In the case of Stroud, I almost think it was like a reverse racism, that he "played the game like a white guy" who was "a system QB" instead of ad libbing on the run all the time, and some scouts didn't know what to make of him.

Those were actually strengths in his game that were somehow twisted into weaknesses in the evaluating process.

I think that’s all in your head amigo

All three first round QB’s were non-white FYI

Racism isn’t the answer to everything

 

[HuskerOC]

I think we’re beyond the point where NFL teams question having black QBs for sure. But I question whether some are being fairly evaluated. The Stroud narrative looks really dumb in hindsight and you have to wonder imo. Maybe you’re right and it’s just teams being dumb as usual.

He was the #2 pick in the draft.

The dumbass owner of Carolina forced the Young pick.

This isn't rocket science.

 

[Iggloo]

I think quite a few NFL teams would have taken Young over Stroud from what I was reading around the draft.

 

[Clayton]

I think we’re beyond the point where NFL teams question having black QBs for sure. But I question whether some are being fairly evaluated. The Stroud narrative looks really dumb in hindsight and you have to wonder imo. Maybe you’re right and it’s just teams being dumb as usual.

Stroud did go #2 overall. Anthony Richardson #4 overall. It is one of those things where I think the scouts are doing there job. I big question is why Bryce Young bombed so hard.

Stroud also had to deal with Caleb Williams hype. Guys like Brett Kollman were out there saying 'stick with Justin Fields. There is no Caleb Williams in this draft' and the media people undersold Stroud.

 

[HuskerOC]

I think quite a few NFL teams would have taken Young over Stroud from what I was reading around the draft.

I highly doubt it. I really do.

Kid is 6' at best, small, injury prone simply due to his size, with a very suspect arm. I would have never drafted Young even in the 7th round.

Next year, I'll go on my ledge again and say Jayden Daniels is the only 1st round worthy QB. Caleb Williams is going to a major bust and Drake Maye is so bad I can't even take him as being a serious draft pick in the 1st round.

In about 300 days you can prove me wrong.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

it's easy to confuse him with Haskins (I was down on him from day 1) and Fields to a lesser extent.

Fields and Stroud couldn't be more different other than both being black.

There is so much football it's easy to miss a guy like Stroud being seen as
special from a fans perspective. I'm more just surprised so many NFL guys undersold him

I'm not surprised that the so-called "NFL guys" missed on his evaluation. The high percentage of misses show just how badly many scouts, GMs, etc. evaluate the QB position year after year. It really has become a massive game of playing the craps table for a great many organizations. I mean hell, Trevor Lawrence by virtually all accounts was and is considered a generational talent that couldn't miss along the lines of Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck yet we are through 3 years and excuses are starting to pile up. He now is somewhere between Daniel Jones and Baker Mayfield were at the same time. He could still turn it around, obviously but so far it's not looking all that great. Right now, I would take Stroud over Lawrence 100% but who the hell knows these days, right.

 

[HuskerOC]

I'm not surprised that the so-called "NFL guys" missed on his evaluation. The high percentage of misses show just how badly many scouts, GMs, etc. evaluate the QB position year after year. It really has become a massive game of playing the craps table for a great many organizations. I mean hell, Trevor Lawrence by virtually all accounts was and is considered a generational talent that couldn't miss along the lines of Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck yet we are through 3 years and excuses are starting to pile up. He now is somewhere between Daniel Jones and Baker Mayfield were at the same time. He could still turn it around, obviously but so far it's not looking all that great. Right now, I would take Stroud over Lawrence 100% but who the hell knows these days, right.

Trevor Lawrence was the 'safe' pick. A high paid GM could never get fired for taking that guy.

It is he robotic, easily confused, and not able to throw into tight windows? Yes, that should have been the evaluation. However, what we find is that many organizations and leaders don't want to lead, but want to be just like everybody else. Get an A grade from all the talking heads, and then go 9-8 for the rest of forever as a top end ceiling.

Hell, Ima start up trade talks of Tua for Fields. Straight up. Nothing other than QB for QB.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Trevor Lawrence was the 'safe' pick. A high paid GM could never get fired for taking that guy.

It is he robotic, easily confused, and not able to throw into tight windows? Yes, that should have been the evaluation. However, what we find is that many organizations and leaders don't want to lead, but want to be just like everybody else. Get an A grade from all the talking heads, and then go 9-8 for the rest of forever as a top end ceiling.

Hell, Ima start up trade talks of Tua for Fields. Straight up. Nothing other than QB for QB.

man idk that.