6 man rotation

[element1286]

Would you do it, and who would be the sixth man Ohlendorf or Lincoln?

 

[Darkstone42]

I would do it, since most of our starters are approaching career highs in innings pitched, and that doesn't bode well for the last two months of the season, and I would probably go with Lincoln for now until Ohlendorf's shown he's healthy.

Ultimately, I kind of expect them both to be in the rotation and Correia to be out. He's losing it. At least at home.

Regardless, whichever of the three we don't use in the 6-man rotation should go into the bullpen, because our relievers are all being stretched, too.

 

[thedddd]

I agree they should do it. I think it was McDonalds last start when they discussed how much better of a pitcher he is on 5 or more days rest. I wonder how it is for the other starters outside Maholm?

If healthy use Ohlendorf but until then bring up Lincoln and send down Watson. Granted he is a lefty but Biemel is back and the remaining bullpen can be stretched if needed like Grilli and McCutchen.

On a slightly different topic, I checked this out in the past but if you notice the pitch count per start for all our starters is very low. I took that at first thinking they are making quality outs without giving up a lot of pitches but if you look at the better rotations/starters in baseball none of the Pirate starters come close. Not sure what others read into it but to me without looking at the numbers makes me wonder if opposing team BA's goes up drastically the 2nd/3rd time around.

 

[magnumo]

I wouldn't go to a 6-man rotation until rosters expand. From my perspective, there just aren't enough roster spots on the 25-man to accommodate a 6-man rotation.

Would a 6-man rotation allow the bullpen to reduce from 7 to 6 pitchers? Perhaps that would be possible if the starters were able to go 7+ innings consistently..... but I don't see that happening.

The only other alternative (if they went to a 6-man rotation) would be to cut the bench from 5 to 4 players. That seems untenable for any length of time.

Having said all that, I'd probably try McCutchen or Watson as a spot starter. In my view, Lincoln hasn't shown enough consistency at triple-A, and Ohlendorf isn't stretched out enough yet. Based on his numbers at Indy, I might consider Garrett Olson for a spot start, as well.

 

[evolver115]

If Morton can't straighten himself out, he might end up being the odd man out of a 5-man rotation. His inability to pitch to left-handed batters is getting out of hand.

Vs Lefties: .380/.458/.542 5HR/30BB
Vs Righty: .213/.284/.254 0HR/19BB

That cannot be allowed to continue.

 

[Darkstone42]

If Morton can't straighten himself out, he might end up being the odd man out of a 5-man rotation. His inability to pitch to left-handed batters is getting out of hand.

Vs Lefties: .380/.458/.542 5HR/30BB
Vs Righty: .213/.284/.254 0HR/19BB

That cannot be allowed to continue.

Morton doesn't concern me. For the most part this year, he's dominated righties and pitched damage control against lefties. Those splits are mostly the product of relying on his sinker too much, which is an adjustment he should be able to make.

 

[element1286]

Morton doesn't concern me as much. He is getting hit by lefties, true, but he is also developing as a pitcher after completely changing his delivery/method of pitching.

They would have to shorten the Pen to add another starter, but they could always designate a starter as the long man in case of an emergency, the guy with 2-3 days rest usually throws a side session anyway.

I'm not sure McCutchen or Watson are stretched out enough either.

 

[evolver115]

Morton doesn't concern me. For the most part this year, he's dominated righties and pitched damage control against lefties. Those splits are mostly the product of relying on his sinker too much, which is an adjustment he should be able to make.

Morton doesn't concern me as much. He is getting hit by lefties, true, but he is also developing as a pitcher after completely changing his delivery/method of pitching.

They would have to shorten the Pen to add another starter, but they could always designate a starter as the long man in case of an emergency, the guy with 2-3 days rest usually throws a side session anyway.

I'm not sure McCutchen or Watson are stretched out enough either.

Morton is 2-4 with a ERA over 7 in his last eight starts. He's also over 100 innings pitched for the year. I'm not so sure the place for him to figure out pitching to left handers is the major leagues... particularly when the Pirates still have a slight chance at the NLC.

 

[element1286]

Morton is 2-4 with a ERA over 7 in his last eight starts. He's also over 100 innings pitched for the year. I'm not so sure the place for him to figure out pitching to left handers is the major leagues... particularly when the Pirates still have a slight chance at the NLC.

Then the question is, do you think Morton will perform at those levels for the rest of the season? Do you think he will perform at the early season level? Or do you think it will be somewhere in between?

To be honest I remember a bunch of Morton starts in which the defense severely let him down, and he had some bad luck, all were recently. Of course the defense was terrific in his early starts, and he had some good luck.

 

[evolver115]

Then the question is, do you think Morton will perform at those levels for the rest of the season? Do you think he will perform at the early season level? Or do you think it will be somewhere in between?

To be honest I remember a bunch of Morton starts in which the defense severely let him down, and he had some bad luck, all were recently. Of course the defense was terrific in his early starts, and he had some good luck.

I don't see how he is going to improve his pitching to lefties at this late stage of the season. After his start tonight... and barring any changes to the rotation/schedule, his next five starts will be against the Giants, Brewers, Reds, Brewers and Cardinals. That is a brutal stretch. All of those teams are battling for either a division and/or a wildcard.

You can bet those teams' will load up the left-handers in the order and go after him. I just don't want to see Morton get torn to shreds and have his confidence bottom out again, like last year. He has the ability to be the Bucs best pitcher in the coming seasons, and I want to see that happen.

Tonight is a big start for him. He needs to get back to what made him successful early in the season. Whether that is him laying off the sinker to lefties, or just getting better command of it... i'm not sure. He needs to figure something out because the road ahead gets much more difficult.

 

[element1286]

I don't see how he is going to improve his pitching to lefties at this late stage of the season. After his start tonight... and barring any changes to the rotation/schedule, his next five starts will be against the Giants, Brewers, Reds, Brewers and Cardinals. That is a brutal stretch. All of those teams are battling for either a division and/or a wildcard.

You can bet those teams' will load up the left-handers in the order and go after him. I just don't want to see Morton get torn to shreds and have his confidence bottom out again, like last year. He has the ability to be the Bucs best pitcher in the coming seasons, and I want to see that happen.

Tonight is a big start for him. He needs to get back to what made him successful early in the season. Whether that is him laying off the sinker to lefties, or just getting better command of it... i'm not sure. He needs to figure something out because the road ahead gets much more difficult.

It's a rough stretch, but to be honest at this point in his career he is sink or swim, IMO. I'd rather he learns how to survive against the lefties, than pull him out of the rotation totally because I don't think he can do it.

Those teams will certainly load up with lefties, but none of them have the ability to load up the way Philly just did with quality lefties; St Louis and Milwaukee included. And we have seen what he can do to a primarily right handed Reds lineup. I'm not saying he should mow all of them down. But I would be surprised if keeps getting bombed.

Cubs don't have much as far as left handed hitters go, I think he has a solid start tonight, 6 IP, 3 ER or less.

 

[Darkstone42]

Morton just needs to trust his 4-seamer and curve a little more and everything else will work out. If you're going to throw sinkers to lefties as a right handed pitcher, you have to be locating them perfectly. His 4-seamer and curve are good enough to use, if he just trusts them.

 

[Darkstone42]

Morton looked darned good tonight.

 

[sychmd]

cubbies have a lot of righties, except pena who hit him well.
good to see him battle.
wasnt able to see his pitch selection and whether he is mixing it up.

cant go with a 6 man rotation for the reasons others have cited, but we can drop one out for 2 weeks, put them on DL, and let ohly or lincoln, or dan mcutch or g. olsen take a couple shots.

we probably need to trade some of them in the near future when the young arms are here and giving the contenders some starts to showcase for trades or solidify who we want to keep will be important. now, if they flop, trade value decreases, but when pitchers make random starts and no real book on them, they usually fair well and artificially inflate their value in the short term.

 

[magnumo]

According to that article from mlb.com linked elsewhere, the Pirates are not considering a 6-man rotation. Here's the link again:

Bucs looking at rotation tweaks | pirates.com: News

It goes on to state that they may use a spot starter to allow starters to delay or skip a turn. It also mentions Ohlendorf and Lincoln as possible spot starters.

Earlier, I posted the possibility of using Garrett Olson in that role. On second thought, that seems unlikely since Olson is no longer on the 40-man roster. I doubt we will see Olson until after rosters expand. He is still giving up too many walks, but his hits per inning numbers at Indy are VERY impressive. I'm hoping that he's figured something out. As has been said many times, a team never has too much pitching.

 

[Illinest]

I'd like to see the team split the workload up by using Lincoln, Ohlendorf, and D. McC in longer roles. All three of those guys came up through the minors as starting pitchers and there's no reason they couldn't go 2 innings at a time. Beimel is the loogy and Veras and Resop have to split the eighth inning. Not ideal but it's the best we can do right now.

So if you've got the eighth and ninth inning covered and there's three guys capable of going 2 apiece then your starters only need to go five. The starters will only see the opposing hitters two times apiece (assuming they're not getting shelled) and the middle relievers ought to be able to see the opposing hitters only once.
Sounds like a good way to limit everyone's exposure.
Bonus point - if Correia only lasts 3 innings then you're well prepared with your choice of three different converted starters. 4 innings shouldn't be a problem for Lincoln, Ohlendorf, or D. McC.