5-tool Cuban OF'er declared a FA by MLB

[msgkings322]

But don't you think it's possible that we could make a competitive offer and get turned down for the same reason that a FA would? And it's not just the park -- the kid is likely going to the AL, which is where the hitters are going now. Smaller parks, better hitting lineups around them, DH rule for "days off."

I hate the AL.

Cam is saying let's overpay. They'll take the money if we go all Rowand/Zito on them.

 

[tzill]

Cam is saying let's overpay. They'll take the money if we go all Rowand/Zito on them.

I'm of the opinion that we should never overpay. Ever. It's wasted funds that can be put to more efficient use.

 

[CameronFrye]

But don't you think it's possible that we could make a competitive offer and get turned down for the same reason that a FA would? And it's not just the park -- the kid is likely going to the AL, which is where the hitters are going now. Smaller parks, better hitting lineups around them, DH rule for "days off."

I hate the AL.

I agree that all things being equal, he goes to the AL team. But the Giants cannot allow things to be equal. They have to outbid everyone. I don't think it'll happen, but I always hope that logic will sink into that thick skull of Sabean's every now and then.

 

[tzill]

I agree that all things being equal, he goes to the AL team. But the Giants cannot allow things to be equal. They have to outbid everyone. I don't think it'll happen, but I always hope that logic will sink into that thick skull of Sabean's every now and then.

But isn't it always ILLogical to overpay? By definition?

 

[filosofy29]

I think the brass will pray for Blanco to stay solid all year so they can save money not signing another leadoff guy.

Lots of baseball yet this year and we're already planning the 2013 roster?

I hope Blanco will stay solid too and that he's finally learned to put it all together. But Cam threw out a hypothetical for the young Cuban kid to play next year. I was just following suit on what I'd like to see done with the money we would have spent on the Cuban kid.

Hypotheticals can be fun, that's all. I don't think anybody has given up on this team. In fact, I think they are a top 5 team in the NL, so they hopefully will make the playoffs (even if it is as the BS 5th team).

 

[CameronFrye]

But isn't it always ILLogical to overpay? By definition?

If it's a choice between getting a 5-tool guy and sticking with an OF of Melky, Pagan and Blanco, then no.

I said it before and I will say it again, the Giants NEED a power bat in their OF lineup next season. I don't care who it is or where the bat comes from.

 

[msgkings322]

I hope Blanco will stay solid too and that he's finally learned to put it all together. But Cam threw out a hypothetical for the young Cuban kid to play next year. I was just following suit on what I'd like to see done with the money we would have spent on the Cuban kid.

Hypotheticals can be fun, that's all. I don't think anybody has given up on this team. In fact, I think they are a top 5 team in the NL, so they hopefully will make the playoffs (even if it is as the BS 5th team).

They need to win the division, the new wild card format makes that imperative (which is why on balance I like the new rule).

They can win it, LA is having the swoon all predicted and now it's a battle. When they get Kemp back we will likely be battling them all year. They'll be active at the deadline with the new owners and their checkbooks, to pick up hitting. Also, still plenty of time for AZ to get hot and be in the mix.

 

[msgkings322]

If it's a choice between getting a 5-tool guy and sticking with an OF of Melky, Pagan and Blanco, then no.

I said it before and I will say it again, the Giants NEED a power bat in their OF lineup next season. I don't care who it is or where the bat comes from.

So you liked the Rowand signing?

 

[CameronFrye]

According to MLB Trade rumors, here is the list of FAs after the 2012 season:

Left fielders
Jay Gibbons (36)
Jonny Gomes (32)
Scott Hairston (33)
Josh Hamilton (32)
Willie Harris (35)
Brad Hawpe (34)
Eric Hinske (35)
Conor Jackson (31)
Reed Johnson (36)
Andruw Jones (36)
Austin Kearns (33)
Mark Kotsay (37)
Carlos Lee (37)
Fred Lewis (32)
Ryan Ludwick (34) - mutual option for 2013
Juan Pierre (35)
Juan Rivera (34) - $4MM club option for 2013 with a $500K buyout
Delmon Young (27)

Center fielders
Alfredo Amezaga (35)
Rick Ankiel (33)
Michael Bourn (30)
Marlon Byrd (35)
Melky Cabrera (28)
Mike Cameron (40)
Curtis Granderson (32) - $13MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Scott Hairston (33)
Angel Pagan (31)
Corey Patterson (33)
Cody Ross (32)
Grady Sizemore (30)
Ryan Spilborghs (33)
B.J. Upton (28)
Shane Victorino (32)

Right fielders
Lance Berkman (36)
Matt Diaz (35)
Andre Ethier (31)
Kosuke Fukudome (36) - $3.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Willie Harris (35)
Torii Hunter (37)
Andruw Jones (36)
Mark Kotsay (37)
Ryan Ludwick (34) - mutual option for 2013
Xavier Nady (34)
Carlos Quentin (30)
Juan Rivera (34) - $4MM club option for 2013 with a $500K buyout
Cody Ross (32)
Ryan Spilborghs (33)
Ichiro Suzuki (39)
Nick Swisher (32)

I bolded the only bats that can make a realistic impact. The Giants are not getting Hamilton or Ethier, so that leaves suspect guys like Quentin and second tier guys like BJ Upton or Delmon Young or Nick Swisher.

I would rather take a chance on the Cuban kid than try to acquire an established bat that will cost a whole shitload more.

 

[CameronFrye]

So you liked the Rowand signing?

No. I absolutely HATED the Rowand signing because he was NEVER a power bat. His splits showed that he was a product of his ball park. Anyone with half a brain knows that.

And Soler is said to have all 5 tools. Rowand was a tool who could do nothing else other than hit - and even then it was because he played in Citizen's Launching Pad. Rowand had speed, but was a terrible defensive OF and he was average at best at stealing bases.

 

[msgkings322]

No. I absolutely HATED the Rowand signing because he was NEVER a power bat. His splits showed that he was a product of his ball park. Anyone with half a brain knows that.

And Soler is said to have all 5 tools. Rowand was a tool who could do nothing else other than hit - and even then it was because he played in Citizen's Launching Pad. Rowand had speed, but was a terrible defensive OF and he was average at best at stealing bases.

I was baiting you, Cam. Just riffing on the overpaying you seem to advocate here. I think the brass simply WILL NOT overpay anymore, twice bitten and all. They'd rather 'properly' pay 'suspects' like Quentin than overpay for question marks like Cuban defectors.

And they'd rather just keep plugging in mediocre to ok hitters to go with their stellar pitchers. It worked in 2010, it's what the park dictates.

 

[mistgl]

If it's a choice between getting a 5-tool guy and sticking with an OF of Melky, Pagan and Blanco, then no.

I said it before and I will say it again, the Giants NEED a power bat in their OF lineup next season. I don't care who it is or where the bat comes from.

Dude, your argument is a moot point. This kid isn't going straight to the major leagues like Cespedes. He is TWENTY, and it's pretty much unanimous among scouts that he's starting in A+ or AA.

You're acting like he'll be in the big leagues next season as that middle of the order bat we need.

 

[CameronFrye]

I was baiting you, Cam. Just riffing on the overpaying you seem to advocate here. I think the brass simply WILL NOT overpay anymore, twice bitten and all. They'd rather 'properly' pay 'suspects' like Quentin than overpay for question marks like Cuban defectors.

And they'd rather just keep plugging in mediocre to ok hitters to go with their stellar pitchers. It worked in 2010, it's what the park dictates.

And that is what scares me. I love watching this team grind out scrappy wins, but I am such a pessimist that I do not believe that it can continue all year long.

In 2010, the Giants had a resurgence of power. Huff hit 26 bombs. Juan Uribe had 24. Buster and Burrell both had 18 in 400 and 300 ABs, respectively. Torres had 16.

There's not a Giants currently on the active roster who is a threat for anything more than 18-20. Even then, it's limited to Sandoval, Posey and Melky. That's it. Past that, the Giants will be LUCKY to have 2 other guys in double figures at the end of the year. In 2010 EVERYTHING went right. The front office cannot act like that has a legitimate shot of happening again.

 

[tzill]

If it's a choice between getting a 5-tool guy and sticking with an OF of Melky, Pagan and Blanco, then no.

I said it before and I will say it again, the Giants NEED a power bat in their OF lineup next season. I don't care who it is or where the bat comes from.

You've presented a false dichotomy, my friend. The choice isn't between a 5 tool 19 yo prospect and the current OF. It's between paying market rate for a prospect and OVERPAYING for the same prospect. By definition, if we overpay, that's less money we can spend in other areas, like: world wide scouting, scouting FAs, signing FAs, re-signing our own FAs, etc.

If we have to overpay to get someone, I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.

 

[mistgl]

You've presented a false dichotomy, my friend. The choice isn't between a 5 tool 19 yo prospect and the current OF. It's between paying market rate for a prospect and OVERPAYING for the same prospect. By definition, if we overpay, that's less money we can spend in other areas, like: world wide scouting, scouting FAs, signing FAs, re-signing our own FAs, etc.

If we have to overpay to get someone, I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.

The key word being prospect.

He's not going to be big league ready next year.

 

[tzill]

They need to win the division, the new wild card format makes that imperative (which is why on balance I like the new rule).

They can win it, LA is having the swoon all predicted and now it's a battle. When they get Kemp back we will likely be battling them all year. They'll be active at the deadline with the new owners and their checkbooks, to pick up hitting. Also, still plenty of time for AZ to get hot and be in the mix.

This. They will also be looking for another starter. This Kershaw/Capuano/Harang/Babs/Lilly thing isn't going to hold together. The bad news is that they'll have the funds to take on a big contract. The good news is that they'll overpay to do it in what should be a seller's market.

July should be interesting. They've got three against us at AT&T at the end of that month.

 

[CameronFrye]

The SF Giants have SIX home runs at home this year. They have 86 total RBIs. The team is hitting .256/.319/.349 with a stupendous .668 OPS. The team's K/BB ration of 188/81 suggest a power-hitting team. The stats contradict that idea. The 1986 St. Louis Cardinals laugh at those numbers.

Anyone who studies numbers for any length of time has to know that the Giants cannot continue to win putting up those kinds of numbers.

While I will give in to those who say that Soler is not going to be ready next season, SOMETHING has to be done.

I quote Ferris Bueller's father: Look, we know you have the money. We just have to spend it."

 

[msgkings322]

The SF Giants have SIX home runs at home this year. They have 86 total RBIs. The team is hitting .256/.319/.349 with a stupendous .668 OPS. The team's K/BB ration of 188/81 suggest a power-hitting team. The stats contradict that idea. The 1986 St. Louis Cardinals laugh at those numbers.

Anyone who studies numbers for any length of time has to know that the Giants cannot continue to win putting up those kinds of numbers.

While I will give in to those who say that Soler is not going to be ready next season, SOMETHING has to be done.

I quote Ferris Bueller's father: Look, we know you have the money. We just have to spend it."

And I quote Sandoval's doctor: 'He'll be back in the lineup this weekend'

Cam, you can be kind of a concern troll. You were very against the Melky trade for example. And pretty high on signing Fielder damn the financial consequences.

 

[CameronFrye]

And I quote Sandoval's doctor: 'He'll be back in the lineup this weekend'

Cam, you can be kind of a concern troll. You were very against the Melky trade for example. And pretty high on signing Fielder damn the financial consequences.

I will admit I was wrong on Melky, but I still think that Fielder >>>>>>> Belt, Huff, Pill and anyone else who lines up there for the next four years. I want another World Series and I want it NOW. I don't want to watch another 20 years of Giants management just hoping to get to the playoffs and waiting for the magic to start.

 

[Heathbar012]

I will admit I was wrong on Melky, but I still think that Fielder >>>>>>> Belt, Huff, Pill and anyone else who lines up there for the next four years. I want another World Series and I want it NOW. I don't want to watch another 20 years of Giants management just hoping to get to the playoffs and waiting for the magic to start.

That's just it. It's 20 years of setting up the next 20 years with winning the WS being a much better than average chance every season (and given recent winners, above average is all anyone can hope for because nothing is anywhere near certain based on payroll). I'm not saying that the Giants definitely shouldn't have gone after certain high-priced FAs, but in-house-core-building with shrewd deadline deals seems to be a good strategy to me, from a longevity standpoint. EDIT: At least, until Zeets is off the books, and the core is paid.