Series Thread: 5) Indiana Pacers vs. 4) Philadelphia 76ers

[flyerhawk]

Actually, I backed away from this a bit. I think Ingram is close, but Simmons is better defensively. Th difference is, as I pointed out in another post, Simmons has more muscle on him and can defend better in the post.

As for the gap not being as big, there are more that agree than you think. Simmons gets skewed a bit because he's on a better team.

I agree that it is skewed a bit because of the team difference.

There were a lot of folks that thought the comparison was pretty close a few months ago.

Rethinking Recent NBA Draft-Day Debates

Simmons is a better defender, rebounder, and playmaker than Ingram is right now — and probably will be for the entirety of their careers. Simmons also has an edge in driving to the rim, finishing against contact, and beating mismatches. I had Ingram ahead of Simmons on my 2016 draft board, but would now select Simmons. Still, the case made for Ingram before the draft is the same one that could be made for him now: Ingram is 14 months younger and entered the NBA less physically mature. He had a far steeper developmental curve and is still catching up with Simmons. And the signs have been encouraging.

But the past 45 days have really seen a significant boost in Simmons game. Partly because the Sixers brought on Ilyasova and Bellinelli. With more perimeter shooters to choose from this gives Simmons more options and makes playing off of him more dangerous. But it is also because Simmons confidence in his game has skyrocketed.

As of right now, Simmons is pretty clearly ahead of Ingram. But Simmons is a year older than Ingram and physically more imposing. In the next couple of years the age difference will become moot and while Ingram is never going to be as strong as Simmons most likely, he should get stronger. At that point things could change in the comparison. But I think it is hard to argue that they are roughly similar right now.

 

[trojanfan12]

I agree that it is skewed a bit because of the team difference.

There were a lot of folks that thought the comparison was pretty close a few months ago.

Rethinking Recent NBA Draft-Day Debates



But the past 45 days have really seen a significant boost in Simmons game. Partly because the Sixers brought on Ilyasova and Bellinelli. With more perimeter shooters to choose from this gives Simmons more options and makes playing off of him more dangerous. But it is also because Simmons confidence in his game has skyrocketed.

As of right now, Simmons is pretty clearly ahead of Ingram. But Simmons is a year older than Ingram and physically more imposing. In the next couple of years the age difference will become moot and while Ingram is never going to be as strong as Simmons most likely, he should get stronger. At that point things could change in the comparison. But I think it is hard to argue that they are roughly similar right now.

I'm not sure I'd trust the opinion of someone who had Ingram ahead of Simmons before the draft. lol

I mean, I love Ingram and think he's going to be very, very good, if not a legit star. But I even said before the draft that if Simmons was available, the Lakers would have to take him. With what people were saying about him, even if he turned out to be a complete bust, no one could say they made the wrong choice.

That weight thing is the only thing that really concerns me with Ingram. Some guys just can't gain weight, no matter what they do (I have a nephew who's like that). If Ingram is one of those guys, it'll be a problem his entire career.

 

[handicappers]

Here we goooooo.....

View attachment 177284

 

[tlance]

Actually, I backed away from this a bit. I think Ingram is close, but Simmons is better defensively. Th difference is, as I pointed out in another post, Simmons has more muscle on him and can defend better in the post.

As for the gap not being as big, there are more that agree than you think. Simmons gets skewed a bit because he's on a better team.

It is more than just strength though. Simmons is the superior athlete. It is why he was the best prospect of the class. I think Simmons is going to find his way to All NBA defensive teams, perhaps even this year. his agility and mobility at his size is what makes him special.

 

[flyerhawk]

It is more than just strength though. Simmons is the superior athlete. It is why he was the best prospect of the class. I think Simmons is going to find his way to All NBA defensive teams, perhaps even this year. his agility and mobility at his size is what makes him special.

Simmons already is an exception one on one defender. His size, length and strength allow him to cover just about anyone on the court. He's also able to cover the pick and roll well because he can take both the pick and the shooter. He's also quite good at moving out to the wing to contest shots from an inside position.

Where he still needs to work on his game is providing interior support. He can be tentative about closing down in support and he's still not really comfortable banging around in the paint. Experience will help with both of those facets though.

I know I come off as a huge Simmons homer but I honestly think he is a generational talent. OTOH, I actually think that Embiid is a bit overrated. Embiid is very talented and can be dominant at times. Because he still coughs the ball up way too much and plays recklessly at times.

 

[eaglesnut]

The offense running through Simmons makes the Sixers tough to beat every night.
Embiids imposing presence also makes them tough to beat every night.
Can't wait for the playoffs.

 

[Mecca]

I know I come off as a huge Simmons homer but I honestly think he is a generational talent. OTOH, I actually think that Embiid is a bit overrated. Embiid is very talented and can be dominant at times. Because he still coughs the ball up way too much and plays recklessly at times.

So do I.

A jumper and longevity is all that stands in his way to have a shot at Mr. Rushmore.

I try not to throw those kinds of statements out all Willy nilly.

But, the kid really is that good already.

Hitting his freebies at a higher clip makes him deadly.

A jumper makes him absolutely LETHAL.

 

[knowyourenemy]

So do I.

A jumper and longevity is all that stands in his way to have a shot at Mr. Rushmore.

I try not to throw those kinds of statements out all Willy nilly.

But, the kid really is that good already.

Hitting his freebies at a higher clip makes him deadly.

A jumper makes him absolutely LETHAL.

My biggest frustration with him is that he literally won’t even attempt a 3-pointer. I believe all of his 3-point attempts this season have been last minute heaves.

 

[Mecca]

My biggest frustration with him is that he literally won’t even attempt a 3-pointer. I believe all of his 3-point attempts this season have been last minute heaves.

Yeah, let's hope he works on that this Summer.

Wait...he doesn't play for my Team.

So, let's hope he doesn't.

Go to Cancun, Ben....

 

[knowyourenemy]

Yeah, let's hope he works on that this Summer.

Wait...he doesn't play for my Team.

So, let's hope he doesn't.

Go to Cancun, Ben....

Wait a second. When did you add the Cavs and Michigan to your favorite teams list?

 

[Black Adam]

Wait a second. When did you add the Cavs and Michigan to your favorite teams list?

oh, i'm sure she could put up a 6er's one for ya...

go 'head and ask...


hehehe...

 

[flyerhawk]

My biggest frustration with him is that he literally won’t even attempt a 3-pointer. I believe all of his 3-point attempts this season have been last minute heaves.

My guess is that the coaches have instructed him to not even bother with 3s this season.

 

[trojanfan12]

My biggest frustration with him is that he literally won’t even attempt a 3-pointer. I believe all of his 3-point attempts this season have been last minute heaves.

He needs to follow the Dr. Kobe prescription of 1,000 shots a day. If he truly wants to be the player that his talent says he can be, he'll need to make sure that teams can't play off of him when he's more than 15 feet from the hoop.

 

[knowyourenemy]

He needs to follow the Dr. Kobe prescription of 1,000 shots a day. If he truly wants to be the player that his talent says he can be, he'll need to make sure that teams can't play off of him when he's more than 15 feet from the hoop.

I’ve seen videos of him hitting jumpers in the gym. Yeah, that’s not worth all that much...but he doesn’t look terrible doing it. I just don’t understand why they wouldn’t try to get him to shoot 1 per game. I think he could hit 30%. Then go from there.

 

[knowyourenemy]

My guess is that the coaches have instructed him to not even bother with 3s this season.

That just seems bizarre.

 

[CitySushi]

What about Bates-Diop?

Honestly didn't know who he was until you mentioned him. I like his skill set after watching some of his play. I think the direction of who the Warriors are targeting in the summer free agent market will kind of determine which holes they attempt to fill in the draft.

 

[trojanfan12]

I’ve seen videos of him hitting jumpers in the gym. Yeah, that’s not worth all that much...but he doesn’t look terrible doing it. I just don’t understand why they wouldn’t try to get him to shoot 1 per game. I think he could hit 30%. Then go from there.

Yeah, if it's truly that he's been told not to shoot, that seems a bit strange to me. Even if he only hits in the low 30's, it means teams can't necessarily just back off and dare him to shoot. Plus, in theory, if he keeps shooting it, he'll eventually improve.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Honestly didn't know who he was until you mentioned him. I like his skill set after watching some of his play. I think the direction of who the Warriors are targeting in the summer free agent market will kind of determine which holes they attempt to fill in the draft.

It’s a shame that Noel is such a malcontent and thinks he deserves big money. He’d be a nice fit on the Warriors.

 

[Mecca]

Wait a second. When did you add the Cavs and Michigan to your favorite teams list?

Two days before the National Championship game and I have had the Cavs up sporadically during the Season.

 

[CitySushi]

It’s a shame that Noel is such a malcontent and thinks he deserves big money. He’d be a nice fit on the Warriors.

I said earlier I thought the Warriors would be a perfect fit for him. They could actually give him a starting opportunity because of his skill set. I think Noel has two routes to recoup his money. 1) Go to a contender team where he can get a solid role and show he can be productive for a winner or 2) Go to a rebuild and put up big numbers.

If he's willing to bet on himself one more year and go play for a minimum somewhere, there are lots of teams that could be suitors. Warriors, Spurs, Cavs, Celtics all come to mind. The Rockets less so because they have Capela which would kill lots of Noel's PT since they're kind of redundant.