Series Thread: 4) Washington Wizards vs 5) Atlanta Hawks

[Krusheasy]

 

[Krusheasy]

 

[Krusheasy]

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Wow I have no idea what separates a star from a superstar but John Wall is rapidly moving into that top group. This is why the team with the best player always has an advantage in basketball. His block, then amazing basket at the other end decided the game. Have we ever seen a guy able to dribble right through a one on three and score like this guy can?

He is right, he is a much better player than he was 2 years ago and that improvement was obviously with his jump shot. It really is a pick your poison with him, you almost have to play off him and give him the open 15 footer, now that he makes that shot he is a guy who can score whenever they need it. His one big wart is he has not been successful at last second shots, but then again neither has LeBron.

 

[tlance]

Wow I have no idea what separates a star from a superstar but John Wall is rapidly moving into that top group. This is why the team with the best player always has an advantage in basketball. His block, then amazing basket at the other end decided the game. Have we ever seen a guy able to dribble right through a one on three and score like this guy can?

He is right, he is a much better player than he was 2 years ago and that improvement was obviously with his jump shot. It really is a pick your poison with him, you almost have to play off him and give him the open 15 footer, now that he makes that shot he is a guy who can score whenever they need it. His one big wart is he has not been successful at last second shots, but then again neither has LeBron.

The gap is definitely narrowing by the day.

Wall might be just as good as Curry/Harden/Westbrook when you factor in his defensive ability too. Sometimes it is as much about marketability as it is about on court performance. The only way Wall will ever close the gap there is by making repeated deep playoff runs.

 

[trojanfan12]

Have we ever seen a guy able to dribble right through a one on three and score like this guy can?

I can think of a few.

 

[trojanfan12]

As for Howard, fuck, I have no idea what to do with him.

^^^His career in a nutshell.^^^

He has/had the talent and athletic ability to dominate in several different ways, but he never really developed his game and while he is good to very good at several different things, he's not truly great at anything. Never developing a "go to" or "signature move" in the paint doesn't help him much either.

So, you end up with a guy who is a good to very good defender/rebounder, but whom you can't really have on the floor at the end of games because he has no move on offense that enables him to get a shot off whenever he wants and he can't hit free throws.

 

[ChrisWebber]

^^^His career in a nutshell.^^^

He has/had the talent and athletic ability to dominate in several different ways, but he never really developed his game and while he is good to very good at several different things, he's not truly great at anything. Never developing a "go to" or "signature move" in the paint doesn't help him much either.

So, you end up with a guy who is a good to very good defender/rebounder, but whom you can't really have on the floor at the end of games because he has no move on offense that enables him to get a shot off whenever he wants and he can't hit free throws.

amazing that he's been in the league for what 12 years? and his footwork in the paint is god awful.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I think they got about all they could hope for out of Dwight Howard, his ship sailed a while ago,

 

[Demonjoe93]

^^^His career in a nutshell.^^^

He has/had the talent and athletic ability to dominate in several different ways, but he never really developed his game and while he is good to very good at several different things, he's not truly great at anything. Never developing a "go to" or "signature move" in the paint doesn't help him much either.

So, you end up with a guy who is a good to very good defender/rebounder, but whom you can't really have on the floor at the end of games because he has no move on offense that enables him to get a shot off whenever he wants and he can't hit free throws.

My only hope is that he maybe improves next year after being in our system for a year, but I know that is probably a pipe dream. In any case, that is why only the first two years under his contract are required. The third year is optional. If he doesn't get better next season, we'll just kick him to the curb.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

The Hawks basically traded Horford for Howard. That was a fatal poison for the franchise for a long time to come.
Budenholzer has wasted a once in a generation hand he inherited from Ferry.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

I think they got about all they could hope for out of Dwight Howard, his ship sailed a while ago,

In The Hawks' motion offense Howard is worse than a single player. He destroys the continuity of what only works when there is a low post player who passes well and can step out and hit jump shots.
The pressure of trying to be GM and HC must have gotten to Budenholzer, he should have known DH would be a horrible fit.

 

[trojanfan12]

In The Hawks' motion offense Howard is worse than a single player. He destroys the continuity of what only works when there is a low post player who passes well and can step out and hit jump shots.
The pressure of trying to be GM and HC must have gotten to Budenholzer, he should have known DH would be a horrible fit.

I wouldn't be too hard on Budenholzer. He's not the first to be seduced by Dwight's talent and think that he can get through to him.

I think he made the same mistake re: Howard that the Lakers and Rockets made. That being that with some tutelage, he'd finally develop into the player that his talent says he could be.

The Lakers were sure that with their history of great centers and Kareem willing to work with him, they could get the best out of Dwight. Instead, when Kareem gave him his phone number and an offer to work with him, Dwight basically said "Nah, I'm good" and never called.

Then the Rockets figured with McHale as his HC, he'd be open and willing to learn. Instead, McHale ends up fired and Dwight is now Budenholzer's problem and is the exact same player he was in LA and Houston. The only difference is that now he's gonna be 32 in a few months and is starting to decline a bit.

 

[Mecca]

John Wall is a grown ass man.

Where are all the folks that laughed when some of us said he was a top 5 pg in the NBA ?

He might be a cry baby for counting other Dude's money.

But, he is better than Kyrie, Thomas, Conley, Dame, Kemba and I'd take his youth and size over Cp3.

That leaves Curry, Westbrook and Harden as the only guys that are better...imo

 

[BallsOfFurry]

I wouldn't be too hard on Budenholzer. He's not the first to be seduced by Dwight's talent and think that he can get through to him.

I think he made the same mistake re: Howard that the Lakers and Rockets made. That being that with some tutelage, he'd finally develop into the player that his talent says he could be.

The Lakers were sure that with their history of great centers and Kareem willing to work with him, they could get the best out of Dwight. Instead, when Kareem gave him his phone number and an offer to work with him, Dwight basically said "Nah, I'm good" and never called.

Then the Rockets figured with McHale as his HC, he'd be open and willing to learn. Instead, McHale ends up fired and Dwight is now Budenholzer's problem and is the exact same player he was in LA and Houston. The only difference is that now he's gonna be 32 in a few months and is starting to decline a bit.

There is a big difference in Budenholzer's decision and that of Houston's and to a lesser extent L.A's, he had plenty of evidence Howard is a team killer and he has gotten worse to boot.
There is no excuse other than just being overloaded and out of his depth.
I also think ownership was horny for a splash, which has been the root of many bad personnel decisions in every sport.
The kid from Purdue, PF Caleb Swanigan should be Atlanta's pick in the draft. Then cut losses and trade Howard for whatever can be pried from a team, then eat 20 or 35 million of his contract over 2 years.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

There is a big difference in Budenholzer's decision and that of Houston's and to a lesser extent L.A's, he had plenty of evidence Howard is a team killer and he has gotten worse to boot.
There is no excuse other than just being overloaded and out of his depth.
I also think ownership was horny for a splash, which has been the root of many bad personnel decisions in every sport.
The kid from Purdue, PF Caleb Swanigan should be Atlanta's pick in the draft. Then cut losses and trade Howard for whatever can be pried from a team, then eat 20 or 35 million of his contract over 2 years.

Howard is what he's been for the last 6 or 7 yrs...good rebounder, decent defender, no OFC moves outside of the lob...he did what I expected him to do in this series for the most part given his FGAs...Coach Bud's OFC is not designed to suit a big like DH...a big that can pick and roll for the short jumper or pick and pop, much like Horford is what his OFC is set up for.

But calling a spade a spade, the Hawks got knocked out of this series for one reason imo...they could not guard Beal and Wall. With the series hanging in the balance Schroder and Hardaway got schooled defensively in games 5 and 6.

As much as Howard was a mistake, Baze was just a big a mistake...his off the dribble game is limited and he's not a consistent shooter, no way he was worth that contract. Milsap is a good player, but him as your star? They're doomed for 45-50 wins and a 1st round knockout. The Hawks need to blow this team up and start over.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

Howard is what he's been for the last 6 or 7 yrs...good rebounder, decent defender, no OFC moves outside of the lob...he did what I expected him to do in this series for the most part given his FGAs...Coach Bud's OFC is not designed to suit a big like DH...a big that can pick and roll for the short jumper or pick and pop, much like Horford is what his OFC is set up for.

But calling a spade a spade, the Hawks got knocked out of this series for one reason imo...they could not guard Beal and Wall. With the series hanging in the balance Schroder and Hardaway got schooled defensively in games 5 and 6.

As much as Howard was a mistake, Baze was just a big a mistake...his off the dribble game is limited and he's not a consistent shooter, no way he was worth that contract. Milsap is a good player, but him as your star? They're doomed for 45-50 wins and a 1st round knockout. The Hawks need to blow this team up and start over.

Ferry blew up a fatally flawed roster, signed the right type players and landed a cache of draft picks to boot.
Budenholzer doesn't have Ferry's ability though. He is a HC with no ability at roster building.
If ownership had any sense they'd hire Ferry back and give him complete control over the roster.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

Ferry blew up a fatally flawed roster, signed the right type players and landed a cache of draft picks to boot.
Budenholzer doesn't have Ferry's ability though. He is a HC with no ability at roster building.
If ownership had any sense they'd hire Ferry back and give him complete control over the roster.

Bazemore at least can function in the motion offense, Howard can't.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Ferry blew up a fatally flawed roster, signed the right type players and landed a cache of draft picks to boot.
Budenholzer doesn't have Ferry's ability though. He is a HC with no ability at roster building.
If ownership had any sense they'd hire Ferry back and give him complete control over the roster.

They fired Ferry over some BS...yeah something he should not have said, but not a fireable offense. The roster has gone downhill ever since.

Coach Bud got into some emotional stuff with players and as a GM you can't do that.

The problem with the Hawks is they just don't want to be bad and build up...so they keep putting bandaids (Bazemore, Howard) on the problem when they need a gut job. They're going to overpay Milsap once he opts out, and keep missing out on the true star players when FA comes around.

IMO the best thing that could happen to the Hawks...Milsap sign somewhere else, get rid of Howard and start over.

Baze may fit the OFC better, but he's just not a good enough wing player to build around...he's a 6th/7th man on a good team.

 

[trojanfan12]

Coach Bud got into some emotional stuff with players and as a GM you can't do that.

That's the problem with a coach being a GM. They are too close to the players. The Clippers have the same problem with Doc as GM.

Too often when the coach is also the GM, the GM side of him will know that the best thing for the team is to get rid of a guy, but the coach side won't let him.