1995-2015 NBA Wildcard Play-In 2 : WLK vs Milk

[MilkSpiller22]

as someone who does not like losing, I do want to know why I lost here... It sounds like WLK got a heavy dose of recency bias...

I am not sold that WLKs first line has the FAR superior offense that he claims...

It seems like Chauncey Billups and James Harden don't get the respect they deserve...

lets do player vs player comparisons

Billups vs Curry- Curry wins, but actually very close, neither are/were good defensively(although curry is better) so its all offense, Both players are/were very good, but of course Curry is better

Harden vs Thompson- Harden wins and this one is not close IMO... Neither were great defensively, Harden is much better offensively.

Marion vs Baylor- Baylor is better, but this is offensive player vs defensive player... Marion is one of the better defensive SFs of all time, and he had size on Baylor... Hard to make a good analysis because Baylor is all legend, none of us saw him, and the stats back then are incomplete...

Green Vs Garnett- this is another comparison that is not close, Garnett is much better... they are near equal at defense, but Garnett is significantly better offensively..

Noah vs Chandler- neither player was great offensively, but noah MIGHT be slightly better... both are defensive strong players, but Noah is the better defender despite the 2 inches taller of Chandler.

So milk wins 3-2 with better players... But WLK has the 2 top offensive players, so I would give WLK a small edge on lineup 1.

2nd half-

Payton vs Frazier- this is a great matchup- It is practically a tie, but Frazier was slightly better at offense and defense, so I would give the win to Frazier

Butler vs allen- Defensive vs offense here... Butler's defense was not as good as Allen's offense, so Allen wins

Tmac vs leonard- this is another close one... McGrady was the better offensive, leonard was better defense... I would give the lead to Tmac since in his prime TMac was an ELITE offensive player

Barkley vs Griffin- don't see this being close, and I don't see why WLK knocked Barkley's defense... seemed like Barkley was actually better defensively than blake... BUT blake has size on Barkley, so I can see him containing Barkley better than the other way around... but still Barkley wins this...

Sabonis vs Gasol- offense goes to sabonis, defense goes to Gasol... But offense was very close... so Gasol wins

Milk wins 4-1, and has the better offensive scorers...


Now, I will ask how is this even close... I get nuances, and how players play with eachother, but that is very subjective, I just don't see how WLK won this...

 

[wlk3]

Charles Barkley...

Here is what Dr. Jack Ramsay said about it

"...But Charles didn't see the importance of defense unless it was required at the very end of a game. When I was working television games for the Sixers, Charles was their main gun. I gave him full credit for his incredible exploits on offense, but I also noted when he was slow getting back on defense, not playing his man, or failing to give needed weak-side help.

"Charles, I can only say what I see. When you do good things on offense, I say it, but when you loaf on defense, I say that, too." The other players all grinned at me and nodded in agreement. But Charles dismissed the subject, saying, "I can't play defense and score and rebound too."

There were other quotes, there's more clips but in all its not that he couldn't play defense he just didn't most of the game... This is actually the same situation as James Harden... He's not playing defense most time for whatever reason...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Charles Barkley...

Here is what Dr. Jack Ramsay said about it

"...But Charles didn't see the importance of defense unless it was required at the very end of a game. When I was working television games for the Sixers, Charles was their main gun. I gave him full credit for his incredible exploits on offense, but I also noted when he was slow getting back on defense, not playing his man, or failing to give needed weak-side help.

"Charles, I can only say what I see. When you do good things on offense, I say it, but when you loaf on defense, I say that, too." The other players all grinned at me and nodded in agreement. But Charles dismissed the subject, saying, "I can't play defense and score and rebound too."

There were other quotes, there's more clips but in all its not that he couldn't play defense he just didn't most of the game... This is actually the same situation as James Harden... He's not playing defense most time for whatever reason...

Now, I am not saying he didn't not try defensively often... BUT if you look at his numbers, he was still a very good defensive player... This is where the eye test or the voice test fails, just because someone admits that they dogged more than they should, all that means is that they dogged it more than they would have liked, these players are so competitive that MORE THAN THEY LIKED might be as little as twice per game...

The defensive metric stats actually say he was a BETTER defender than blake... so either, he didn't dogg it as often as he and we think, OR when he played defense He WAS THAT MUCH better...

 

[Shanemansj13]

as someone who does not like losing, I do want to know why I lost here... It sounds like WLK got a heavy dose of recency bias...

I am not sold that WLKs first line has the FAR superior offense that he claims...

It seems like Chauncey Billups and James Harden don't get the respect they deserve...

lets do player vs player comparisons

Billups vs Curry- Curry wins, but actually very close, neither are/were good defensively(although curry is better) so its all offense, Both players are/were very good, but of course Curry is better

Harden vs Thompson- Harden wins and this one is not close IMO... Neither were great defensively, Harden is much better offensively.

Marion vs Baylor- Baylor is better, but this is offensive player vs defensive player... Marion is one of the better defensive SFs of all time, and he had size on Baylor... Hard to make a good analysis because Baylor is all legend, none of us saw him, and the stats back then are incomplete...

Green Vs Garnett- this is another comparison that is not close, Garnett is much better... they are near equal at defense, but Garnett is significantly better offensively..

Noah vs Chandler- neither player was great offensively, but noah MIGHT be slightly better... both are defensive strong players, but Noah is the better defender despite the 2 inches taller of Chandler.

So milk wins 3-2 with better players... But WLK has the 2 top offensive players, so I would give WLK a small edge on lineup 1.

2nd half-

Payton vs Frazier- this is a great matchup- It is practically a tie, but Frazier was slightly better at offense and defense, so I would give the win to Frazier

Butler vs allen- Defensive vs offense here... Butler's defense was not as good as Allen's offense, so Allen wins

Tmac vs leonard- this is another close one... McGrady was the better offensive, leonard was better defense... I would give the lead to Tmac since in his prime TMac was an ELITE offensive player

Barkley vs Griffin- don't see this being close, and I don't see why WLK knocked Barkley's defense... seemed like Barkley was actually better defensively than blake... BUT blake has size on Barkley, so I can see him containing Barkley better than the other way around... but still Barkley wins this...

Sabonis vs Gasol- offense goes to sabonis, defense goes to Gasol... But offense was very close... so Gasol wins

Milk wins 4-1, and has the better offensive scorers...


Now, I will ask how is this even close... I get nuances, and how players play with eachother, but that is very subjective, I just don't see how WLK won this...

I pretty much agree with this. Except a couple matchups.

Harden - Thompson - Harden is better offensively but Thompson is a better all-around player especially being alongside Curry, that is the key.

Payton - Frazier - it's close but I will take Payton barely. Plus he had a 3 point shot somewhat so more of a threat. Both great defensively though.

Barkley - Griffin - Both great athleticism, but I think you are underestimating Blake's athleticism and strength. Barkley was a tough competitor and offensively he is better no doubt but defensively Griffin isn't great but I would take that over Barkley. Not saying Griffin wins the matchup but Griffin on the fastbreak is tough. I think if Blake was put in the Curry/Klay lineup that would be great for fastbreak, although Draymond is great in that lineup too so you can't go wrong. That being said, everything you said was pretty much true in this matchup.

Like I said before, it was a very close matchup. Chemistry was a key in this matchup unfortunately. Klay, Curry and Draymond--you can't go wrong with that but it wasn't overwhelming.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I pretty much agree with this. Except a couple matchups.

Harden - Thompson - Harden is better offensively but Thompson is a better all-around player especially being alongside Curry, that is the key.

Payton - Frazier - it's close but I will take Payton barely. Plus he had a 3 point shot somewhat so more of a threat. Both great defensively though.

Barkley - Griffin - Both great athleticism, but I think you are underestimating Blake's athleticism and strength. Barkley was a tough competitor and offensively he is better no doubt but defensively Griffin isn't great but I would take that over Barkley. Not saying Griffin wins the matchup but Griffin on the fastbreak is tough. I think if Blake was put in the Curry/Klay lineup that would be great for fastbreak, although Draymond is great in that lineup too so you can't go wrong. That being said, everything you said was pretty much true in this matchup.

Like I said before, it was a very close matchup. Chemistry was a key in this matchup unfortunately. Klay, Curry and Draymond--you can't go wrong with that but it wasn't overwhelming.

First off, you cant punish Frazier for three pointers as it wasn't a recorded stat when he played... But I can agree that they are so close that neither should be why the team won/lost...

I don't see the love for Klay, at least compared to Harden... neither are good defensively, Harden is the better offensive player... so if neither player is going to slow down the other, then shouldn't the better offensive player get the edge??

and is chemistry fair?? all he did was get players that already play with eachother, my players never did, but that does not mean in a fictitious match up that his chemistry wins...

 

[Mebert]

You comparisons lean heavily towards your own players, and I disagree with many of them. So with your heavy skew I agree that your team is better.......

Billups is not close to Curry
Thompson is very strong on defense, while Harden is the better scorer, Thompson is the better shooter.
Marion is a solid defensive SF against an all time great
No question KG prime destroys Green, and I am a little offended you put Green on his defensive level
C a wash

So in the first have you have one wash, one massive advantage, one minor advantage but 2 significant disadvantages.

PG is a wash, but how any of these WC PG's went before Stockton or Thomas I will never understand.
Minor Advantage Allen
Minor Advantage McGrady, this one might be closer to a wash IMO
Advantage Barkley
Minor Advantage Gasol

So the question becomes can you second half overcome the deficit your first put up? I chose no and WLK's team slows down the pace quite a bit. I had it close, but as I do in every draft without fail, when it is close I take defense.

 

[Shanemansj13]

First off, you cant punish Frazier for three pointers as it wasn't a recorded stat when he played... But I can agree that they are so close that neither should be why the team won/lost...

I don't see the love for Klay, at least compared to Harden... neither are good defensively, Harden is the better offensive player... so if neither player is going to slow down the other, then shouldn't the better offensive player get the edge??

and is chemistry fair?? all he did was get players that already play with eachother, my players never did, but that does not mean in a fictitious match up that his chemistry wins...

Klay is a very good on the ball defender. Harden isn't. he is awful (on the ball or off the ball). Yes, Harden is better offensively no doubt, he would get the edge but it is much closer than you think as an overall matchup. As a duo, I will take Klay/Curry over Billups/Harden, but I really like Billups but Curry is a far better all-around offensive player without a doubt.

The only reason I say chemistry is bc Curry-Klay-Draymond have played together, it is just part of the matchup. Like I said, it wasn't a huge or key factor but it is what it is. It never determined any decision for me, like I said I was close to picking you or Wlk. I think either could have won this matchup.

 

[Shanemansj13]

You comparisons lean heavily towards your own players, and I disagree with many of them. So with your heavy skew I agree that your team is better.......

Billups is not close to Curry
Thompson is very strong on defense, while Harden is the better scorer, Thompson is the better shooter.
Marion is a solid defensive SF against an all time great
No question KG prime destroys Green, and I am a little offended you put Green on his defensive level
C a wash

So in the first have you have one wash, one massive advantage, one minor advantage but 2 significant disadvantages.

PG is a wash, but how any of these WC PG's went before Stockton or Thomas I will never understand.
Minor Advantage Allen
Minor Advantage McGrady, this one might be closer to a wash IMO
Advantage Barkley
Minor Advantage Gasol

So the question becomes can you second half overcome the deficit your first put up? I chose no and WLK's team slows down the pace quite a bit. I had it close, but as I do in every draft without fail, when it is close I take defense.

When Milk was asking who to take Frazier or Kidd I was thinking...what about Stockton??? He was the far better player.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Klay is a very good on the ball defender. Harden isn't. he is awful (on the ball or off the ball). Yes, Harden is better offensively no doubt, he would get the edge but it is much closer than you think as an overall matchup. As a duo, I will take Klay/Curry over Billups/Harden, but I really like Billups but Curry is a far better all-around offensive player without a doubt.

The only reason I say chemistry is bc Curry-Klay-Draymond have played together, it is just part of the matchup. Like I said, it wasn't a huge or key factor but it is what it is. It never determined any decision for me, like I said I was close to picking you or Wlk. I think either could have won this matchup.

oh, I agree on the duo, and gave him the props... Even said with that first line I win 3-2 but his 2 are better than my 3... All I disagreed about was how WLK said his first line was FAR superior... I see the first line to be close with a slight edge towards him...

But I see my second line being better than his 2nd by a larger margin...

 

[Shanemansj13]

oh, I agree on the duo, and gave him the props... Even said with that first line I win 3-2 but his 2 are better than my 3... All I disagreed about was how WLK said his first line was FAR superior... I see the first line to be close with a slight edge towards him...

But I see my second line being better than his 2nd by a larger margin...

Honestly, if you take Stockton you probably win this matchup IMO. He barely gets the nod over GP, still close but as a whole you take the matchup overall.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

When Milk was asking who to take Frazier or Kidd I was thinking...what about Stockton??? He was the far better player.

Is he?? he was a great passer, but he was short, and not a great defender.... With the rest of my team, I thought a defense first PG who is also very good offensively was my priority... Especially when I have billups, I don't want another offensive minded pg... would have hurt my balance IMO...

 

[Shanemansj13]

Is he?? he was a great passer, but he was short, and not a great defender.... With the rest of my team, I thought a defense first PG who is also very good offensively was my priority... Especially when I have billups, I don't want another offensive minded pg... would have hurt my balance IMO...

John Stockton NBA Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

Great passer, pure PG, very underrated defender (career leader in steals all-time), and a great shooter. Stockton was not offensive minded, he led the league in assists 9 straight years.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

John Stockton NBA Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

Great passer, pure PG, very underrated defender (career leader in steals all-time), and a great shooter. Stockton was not offensive minded, he led the league in assists 9 straight years.

shouldn't have said offense... I know he wasn't a huge scorer, and mostly a giver... Don't think I agree with him being an under-rated defender... at 6'1 and a very small frame, all he really could do was steal... He was definitely a below average defender...

 

[CitySushi]

You comparisons lean heavily towards your own players, and I disagree with many of them. So with your heavy skew I agree that your team is better.......

Billups is not close to Curry
Thompson is very strong on defense, while Harden is the better scorer, Thompson is the better shooter.
Marion is a solid defensive SF against an all time great
No question KG prime destroys Green, and I am a little offended you put Green on his defensive level
C a wash

So in the first have you have one wash, one massive advantage, one minor advantage but 2 significant disadvantages.

PG is a wash, but how any of these WC PG's went before Stockton or Thomas I will never understand.
Minor Advantage Allen
Minor Advantage McGrady, this one might be closer to a wash IMO
Advantage Barkley
Minor Advantage Gasol

So the question becomes can you second half overcome the deficit your first put up? I chose no and WLK's team slows down the pace quite a bit. I had it close, but as I do in every draft without fail, when it is close I take defense.

I was going to go on a huge post to write up my thoughts, but Mebert for the most part nailed most of what I was going to say. Few minor things here or there that I don't totally agree with, but for the most part his post sums up most of my feelings.

 

[CitySushi]

My last thoughts on this. I first look at talent matchup from the teams. If the talent matches up pretty closely, I then take a look at how the rosters were comprised from a fit standpoint. When you have two teams that evenly matchup in talent, you have to factor in that there is only 1 ball and how the players interact with each other is going to determine who wins the game. That's why I went with WLK.

 

[femurov]

You lost because these guys hate America, Milk. Plain and simple.

 

[wlk3]

It seems like Chauncey Billups and James Harden don't get the respect they deserve...

I like Chauncey, you and Ritz seem to steal him just before I get a chance to take him however, in this matchup I feel he is very overmatched... He is a quality defender but his strength is vs bigger players... He played size well, he would be able to post Curry for sure but with the tempo/style of play that my team has proven to play with in real life not sure how often nor how much good it would do to post Chauncey up all half...


Billups vs Curry- Curry wins, but actually very close, neither are/were good defensively(although curry is better) so its all offense, Both players are/were very good, but of course Curry is better

This is not as close as you're saying... Curry is a 2x MVP, back2back at that... As good as Chauncey is in the discussion of best shooter ever and one of the best PGs ever... He has a long way to go, but for his peer group he's the best PG in the NBA right now, Chauncey has never been in any of those discussions...

Harden vs Thompson- Harden wins and this one is not close IMO... Neither were great defensively, Harden is much better offensively.

Harden is a gifted offensive player, but so is Klay... Again, Klay score a record 37 points in 1 quarter... Because Harden is more exciting doesn't mean he's much better... Career he shoots 6.5 3pters a game at .420%, that's outrageous... Harden shoots 5.7 3pters career at .368%, still good but not where Klay is... Not sure what makes you think Klay isn't a good defender but he was known as a defender in college, scouted out to the draft as a defender and is regarded as a solid defender by almost everyone I've seen/spoke with... That being said I'd still give Harden a slight edge...

Marion vs Baylor- Baylor is better, but this is offensive player vs defensive player... Marion is one of the better defensive SFs of all time, and he had size on Baylor... Hard to make a good analysis because Baylor is all legend, none of us saw him, and the stats back then are incomplete...

Not sure how you can say I'm given the benefit of recent memory then have the audacity to brush off a top 5 SF all-time... I'm really unsure of how else to say it other than this (not Blake/Barkley, not Green/Garnett) is the biggest mismatch in this entire match...

Green Vs Garnett- this is another comparison that is not close, Garnett is much better... they are near equal at defense, but Garnett is significantly better offensively..

This is a solid win for you... The only thing I'd add here is that Green is a DPOY, and he's a very capable scorer which means KG doesn't get to hang out with Nos on either side of the court... He's going to have to play both sides at a high level and yes he will...

Noah vs Chandler- neither player was great offensively, but noah MIGHT be slightly better... both are defensive strong players, but Noah is the better defender despite the 2 inches taller of Chandler.

This is pretty even... I think Noah is a better offensive player, I give a slight edge to Chandler defensively but I could go either way... Chandler was great at catching lobs but Noah makes plays... Slight lean to Noah...

So milk wins 3-2 with better players... But WLK has the 2 top offensive players, so I would give WLK a small edge on lineup 1.

We kinda agree here... KG is your biggest advantage but Harden is going to have the ball more often than not... Ball movement on my team is huge... I have 3 guys capable of 20pt quarters willing to make the next pass and Elgin Baylor... The firepower I have puts you in a huge hole...

2nd half-

Payton vs Frazier- this is a great matchup- It is practically a tie, but Frazier was slightly better at offense and defense, so I would give the win to Frazier

This is pretty close... I'd go Payton slightly but I wouldn't argue the other way...

Butler vs allen- Defensive vs offense here... Butler's defense was not as good as Allen's offense, so Allen wins

This is where I think I have a smaller advantage... Allen is a catch and shoot guy and he will do that... But Butler creates his own... Again, if we're looking at a better player I'd lean Allen...

Tmac vs leonard- this is another close one... McGrady was the better offensive, leonard was better defense... I would give the lead to Tmac since in his prime TMac was an ELITE offensive player

Another tough one... This is where I think history is on your side because as of now Tmac is better offensively, but Leonard is proving to be a beast on that end as well as one of the best defenders in league history... I give Leonard the edge here...

Barkley vs Griffin- don't see this being close, and I don't see why WLK knocked Barkley's defense... seemed like Barkley was actually better defensively than blake... BUT blake has size on Barkley, so I can see him containing Barkley better than the other way around... but still Barkley wins this...

Barkley but not as big as Nos is making it out to be...

Sabonis vs Gasol- offense goes to sabonis, defense goes to Gasol... But offense was very close... so Gasol wins

Gasol...

Milk wins 4-1, and has the better offensive scorers...


Now, I will ask how is this even close... I get nuances, and how players play with eachother, but that is very subjective, I just don't see how WLK won this...

In the end it comes down to pieces IMO... I don't think the pieces you have fit as well together and it makes your offense less fluid... You have a lot of guys who need to be set up or who don't set up others... Add that to the fact that I have very good to great defenders and IMO it's going to lead to stops... IMO my first team is a team full of capable scores but who move the ball and we have proof of that... My second team has less movement however, the guys who aren't big passer are facing less than average defenders... So while you may have slight advantages here and there, so do I... However, I feel my scoring, ball movement and defense combined is what gives me the win...

 

[wlk3]

You comparisons lean heavily towards your own players, and I disagree with many of them. So with your heavy skew I agree that your team is better.......

Billups is not close to Curry
Thompson is very strong on defense, while Harden is the better scorer, Thompson is the better shooter.
Marion is a solid defensive SF against an all time great
No question KG prime destroys Green, and I am a little offended you put Green on his defensive level
C a wash

So in the first have you have one wash, one massive advantage, one minor advantage but 2 significant disadvantages.

PG is a wash, but how any of these WC PG's went before Stockton or Thomas I will never understand.
Minor Advantage Allen
Minor Advantage McGrady, this one might be closer to a wash IMO
Advantage Barkley
Minor Advantage Gasol

So the question becomes can you second half overcome the deficit your first put up? I chose no and WLK's team slows down the pace quite a bit. I had it close, but as I do in every draft without fail, when it is close I take defense.

I actually had Stockton written down but felt the lob from Glove to Griffin or if I had him with Baylor was more effective with them... And he was a better defender... It was a tough call for me for sure...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

You comparisons lean heavily towards your own players, and I disagree with many of them. So with your heavy skew I agree that your team is better.......

Billups is not close to Curry
Thompson is very strong on defense, while Harden is the better scorer, Thompson is the better shooter.
Marion is a solid defensive SF against an all time great
No question KG prime destroys Green, and I am a little offended you put Green on his defensive level
C a wash

So in the first have you have one wash, one massive advantage, one minor advantage but 2 significant disadvantages.

PG is a wash, but how any of these WC PG's went before Stockton or Thomas I will never understand.
Minor Advantage Allen
Minor Advantage McGrady, this one might be closer to a wash IMO
Advantage Barkley
Minor Advantage Gasol

So the question becomes can you second half overcome the deficit your first put up? I chose no and WLK's team slows down the pace quite a bit. I had it close, but as I do in every draft without fail, when it is close I take defense.

Your right, I should not of used VERY close with Billups vs Curry... That was just me upset that he seems to be a forgotten player... I still think he is a top 5 offensive PG in this draft...

But I don't understand the love for Klay... is he better defensively than Harden?? sure, but he is not a good defender... He will have a lot of trouble guarding Harden... A lot of trouble... and of course he is a better shooter than Harden, harden shoots much more, and is known to shoot low percentage shots... Klay shoots much less and much less low percentage shots...

So basically all you disagreed with was those 2, everything else, you kind of gave the same results...

I do find it interesting that you consider leonard vs Mcgrady a wash while Marion vs Baylor a landslide win...

Looking at marions numbers and he seems to be leonard before leonard... I will give you leonard is slightly better... but I don't think Baylor is significantly better than Mcgrady... Mcgrady during his prime, was just as elite as anyone...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

It seems like Chauncey Billups and James Harden don't get the respect they deserve...

I like Chauncey, you and Ritz seem to steal him just before I get a chance to take him however, in this matchup I feel he is very overmatched... He is a quality defender but his strength is vs bigger players... He played size well, he would be able to post Curry for sure but with the tempo/style of play that my team has proven to play with in real life not sure how often nor how much good it would do to post Chauncey up all half...


Billups vs Curry- Curry wins, but actually very close, neither are/were good defensively(although curry is better) so its all offense, Both players are/were very good, but of course Curry is better

This is not as close as you're saying... Curry is a 2x MVP, back2back at that... As good as Chauncey is in the discussion of best shooter ever and one of the best PGs ever... He has a long way to go, but for his peer group he's the best PG in the NBA right now, Chauncey has never been in any of those discussions...

Harden vs Thompson- Harden wins and this one is not close IMO... Neither were great defensively, Harden is much better offensively.

Harden is a gifted offensive player, but so is Klay... Again, Klay score a record 37 points in 1 quarter... Because Harden is more exciting doesn't mean he's much better... Career he shoots 6.5 3pters a game at .420%, that's outrageous... Harden shoots 5.7 3pters career at .368%, still good but not where Klay is... Not sure what makes you think Klay isn't a good defender but he was known as a defender in college, scouted out to the draft as a defender and is regarded as a solid defender by almost everyone I've seen/spoke with... That being said I'd still give Harden a slight edge...

Marion vs Baylor- Baylor is better, but this is offensive player vs defensive player... Marion is one of the better defensive SFs of all time, and he had size on Baylor... Hard to make a good analysis because Baylor is all legend, none of us saw him, and the stats back then are incomplete...

Not sure how you can say I'm given the benefit of recent memory then have the audacity to brush off a top 5 SF all-time... I'm really unsure of how else to say it other than this (not Blake/Barkley, not Green/Garnett) is the biggest mismatch in this entire match...

Green Vs Garnett- this is another comparison that is not close, Garnett is much better... they are near equal at defense, but Garnett is significantly better offensively..

This is a solid win for you... The only thing I'd add here is that Green is a DPOY, and he's a very capable scorer which means KG doesn't get to hang out with Nos on either side of the court... He's going to have to play both sides at a high level and yes he will...

Noah vs Chandler- neither player was great offensively, but noah MIGHT be slightly better... both are defensive strong players, but Noah is the better defender despite the 2 inches taller of Chandler.

This is pretty even... I think Noah is a better offensive player, I give a slight edge to Chandler defensively but I could go either way... Chandler was great at catching lobs but Noah makes plays... Slight lean to Noah...

So milk wins 3-2 with better players... But WLK has the 2 top offensive players, so I would give WLK a small edge on lineup 1.

We kinda agree here... KG is your biggest advantage but Harden is going to have the ball more often than not... Ball movement on my team is huge... I have 3 guys capable of 20pt quarters willing to make the next pass and Elgin Baylor... The firepower I have puts you in a huge hole...

2nd half-

Payton vs Frazier- this is a great matchup- It is practically a tie, but Frazier was slightly better at offense and defense, so I would give the win to Frazier

This is pretty close... I'd go Payton slightly but I wouldn't argue the other way...

Butler vs allen- Defensive vs offense here... Butler's defense was not as good as Allen's offense, so Allen wins

This is where I think I have a smaller advantage... Allen is a catch and shoot guy and he will do that... But Butler creates his own... Again, if we're looking at a better player I'd lean Allen...

Tmac vs leonard- this is another close one... McGrady was the better offensive, leonard was better defense... I would give the lead to Tmac since in his prime TMac was an ELITE offensive player

Another tough one... This is where I think history is on your side because as of now Tmac is better offensively, but Leonard is proving to be a beast on that end as well as one of the best defenders in league history... I give Leonard the edge here...

Barkley vs Griffin- don't see this being close, and I don't see why WLK knocked Barkley's defense... seemed like Barkley was actually better defensively than blake... BUT blake has size on Barkley, so I can see him containing Barkley better than the other way around... but still Barkley wins this...

Barkley but not as big as Nos is making it out to be...

Sabonis vs Gasol- offense goes to sabonis, defense goes to Gasol... But offense was very close... so Gasol wins

Gasol...

Milk wins 4-1, and has the better offensive scorers...


Now, I will ask how is this even close... I get nuances, and how players play with eachother, but that is very subjective, I just don't see how WLK won this...

In the end it comes down to pieces IMO... I don't think the pieces you have fit as well together and it makes your offense less fluid... You have a lot of guys who need to be set up or who don't set up others... Add that to the fact that I have very good to great defenders and IMO it's going to lead to stops... IMO my first team is a team full of capable scores but who move the ball and we have proof of that... My second team has less movement however, the guys who aren't big passer are facing less than average defenders... So while you may have slight advantages here and there, so do I... However, I feel my scoring, ball movement and defense combined is what gives me the win...

My extreme words were only emotional after a loss...