POLL Which team did better with their first two draft picks? Jaguars or Cowboys

[purguy12]

I think the only argument you can have towards Henry being the better back in college was each player's game against Michigan St. Elliott sucked, was potentially injured or sick that week and lashed out at the coaching staff. Henry was alright and did a decent job against an overmatched Michigan St. I'm not sure you can make much from that in terms of NFL projection.

Again, though, getting 1 more year out of Elliott (who is a year younger than Henry) even if they are even prospects (and they aren't) makes Elliott look better.

Yes but not at #4. Henry Value is better in the 2nd rd. Elliot has to be the next AP or LT to match his #4 pick.

 

[Across The Field]

Nope I guess the heisman Committee was wrong then. LOL They should listen to you.

LOL, wait, wait, you think winning the Heisman means you're going to have the best pro career??

 

[Clayton]

Yes but not at #4. Henry Value is better in the 2nd rd. Elliot has to be the next AP or LT to match his #4 pick.

Now that I can get behind. RB at 4 is a bit like throwing away the draft pick although you could argue that Gurley would go 3 or 4 in last year's draft in a re-draft.

 

[Across The Field]

I think the only argument you can have towards Henry being the better back in college was each player's game against Michigan St. Elliott sucked, was potentially injured or sick that week and lashed out at the coaching staff. Henry was alright and did a decent job against an overmatched Michigan St. I'm not sure you can make much from that in terms of NFL projection.

Again, though, getting 1 more year out of Elliott (who is a year younger than Henry) even if they are even prospects (and they aren't) makes Elliott look better.

This is one of several things that make Elliott better.

 

[purguy12]

LOL, wait, wait, you think winning the Heisman means you're going to have the best pro career??

No it means they had a better year. What I saw from this past year Henry was the better RB. Think about it teams knew Henry was running the ball and couldn't stop him. Bamas offense was Henry.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

No it means they had a better year. What I saw from this past year Henry was the better RB. Think about it teams knew Henry was running the ball and couldn't stop him. Bamas offense was Henry.

Wasn't Bama's offense a string of 5 star recruits opening gaping holes on that offensive line?

As for the heisman trophy... That's not what I would base NFL scouting on. Just because the Heisman trust says Manziel is the best player in college doesn't mean much. If he doesn't have the skills the NFL game wants, or is playing on a very overpowered team, etc... he isn't going to be a great NFL player whether or not he has that award.

Mark Ingram, Reggie Bush, Ron Dayne, Ricky Williams, Eddie George, Rashaan Salaam. Heisman winners of the past 25 years at RB. Not what I'd rely on.

It's tough with using a pick that high on a RB. That's usually a short career player who's easily replaced by most teams. If you are using a top 5 pick on a RB you are hoping for LT. Unfortunately, since him, the top 5 pick RB's taken have been Trent Richardson, Darren McFadden, Reggie Bush, Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson and Cadillac Williams.

 

[Across The Field]

No it means they had a better year. What I saw from this past year Henry was the better RB. Think about it teams knew Henry was running the ball and couldn't stop him. Bamas offense was Henry.

Think about it, teams in the NFL knew Henry won the Heisman and they didn't care because that trophy means literally nothing at all about who is the better player, and it hasn't in a long time. As I said, there's a reason Elliott was drafted 4th and Henry was drafted toward the end of the second round. If you can't figure this out, there's no reason to waste my time talking to you as if you actually are knowledgeable about the subject.

 

[Texas Jefe]

NFL is different. U think that will be a strength right away. I don't think so. I just think Ramsey would of been a better pick up for dallas. Dallas already has 2 Rbs that can hold down the fort. Elliot will be fine I understand that. Im not saying he sucks. Im just not a fan of a RB be taken at #4 unless its an AP or LT type coming out. Last time I checked the RB who had the best year last year was Henry(Heisman winner).

they're not good enough. Although, Alfred Morris is a solid rusher, he might be past his prime. He seemed to hit a wall last year.

the other guys already at Dallas are just a hodgepodge of not good enough, i.e. they don't scare anybody, they don't impact the opponents game-planning a bit.

 

[Texas Jefe]

As for Jack or J. Smith...

interesting that they are both injured, both highly regarded. While I think Jack is an outstanding football player, I watched Smith and believed he's probably the best player at that position, in college, than I've seen in a decade or so.

yes, he wont play this year, that sucks. But the Dallas team physician did his surgery, he knows that knee better than anybody. If it heals well, he could be a pro bowl type player for years. Jack, if he heals, could be really good as well. So we'll just have to wait awhile on this one.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

they're not good enough. Although, Alfred Morris is a solid rusher, he might be past his prime. He seemed to hit a wall last year.

the other guys already at Dallas are just a hodgepodge of not good enough, i.e. they don't scare anybody, they don't impact the opponents game-planning a bit.

Yup, but hodgepodge was good enough for the last couple SB winners... last year Dallas was solid in rushing not bad but not top 8 (when you take out the running QB's effects on some of the top running teams I'd have called them tennish), with next to nothing given up on the positions (3.6 mil in cap space, some FA's and a 5th round pick).

I can see the debate that that draft capital could have been better used on an impact defensive player or trading back for more picks to help area's... But it does have potential to work out for them. And this is a team that has a few times made huge moves with RB's that have defined the franchise (Trade for Dorsett, trading Walker, drafting Emmitt).

 

[purguy12]

Think about it, teams in the NFL knew Henry won the Heisman and they didn't care because that trophy means literally nothing at all about who is the better player, and it hasn't in a long time. As I said, there's a reason Elliott was drafted 4th and Henry was drafted toward the end of the second round. If you can't figure this out, there's no reason to waste my time talking to you as if you actually are knowledgeable about the subject.

When u understand that everyone has a different opinion on things then you might finally get it. This is mine. I like Henry value better in the 2nd rd(middle not end) and I feel he can be the same or better then Elliot. Elliot has to be a HOF player(or at least close.) to be consider a great pick at #4.

 

[purguy12]

they're not good enough. Although, Alfred Morris is a solid rusher, he might be past his prime. He seemed to hit a wall last year.

the other guys already at Dallas are just a hodgepodge of not good enough, i.e. they don't scare anybody, they don't impact the opponents game-planning a bit.

no that is what Dallas lost in Murray. Murray was perfect for dallas and vice versa. Overall they still have a 1000 yard rusher on their team. Sorry I'm just not a fan of a RB going #4 unless he was the next AP or LT and I haven't heard anyone even mention Elliot in the same sentence as those guys. There is a lot more pressure on Elliot to turn out to be a good player then Henry. Overall value and player goes to Henry(today). In 2-3 years we will find out.

 

[Texas Jefe]

Yup, but hodgepodge was good enough for the last couple SB winners... last year Dallas was solid in rushing not bad but not top 8 (when you take out the running QB's effects on some of the top running teams I'd have called them tennish), with next to nothing given up on the positions (3.6 mil in cap space, some FA's and a 5th round pick).

I can see the debate that that draft capital could have been better used on an impact defensive player or trading back for more picks to help area's... But it does have potential to work out for them. And this is a team that has a few times made huge moves with RB's that have defined the franchise (Trade for Dorsett, trading Walker, drafting Emmitt).

That's true, and that shows how the game has changed in the past 5-8 years or so. But my point is, the game never stays the same, and at some point teams with excellent OLs and a stud RB are going to attack these smaller, faster defenses that are being built to stop the pass.

IMO, Dallas needs to take advantage of that O line now with a durable stud RB: This will do two things, first it will keep Tony Romo healthy and participating longer, and second, it will keep the Dallas defense off the field.

Just my thoughts, who the hell knows how it will pan out. I'm just a contrarian I guess, and have a hard time jumping the same train all the talking heads are on...

 

[purguy12]

As for Jack or J. Smith...

interesting that they are both injured, both highly regarded. While I think Jack is an outstanding football player, I watched Smith and believed he's probably the best player at that position, in college, than I've seen in a decade or so.

yes, he wont play this year, that sucks. But the Dallas team physician did his surgery, he knows that knee better than anybody. If it heals well, he could be a pro bowl type player for years. Jack, if he heals, could be really good as well. So we'll just have to wait awhile on this one.

I agree about J. Smith. Guy was a freak. overall the Combo of Ramsey and Henry(both can play right away for dallas) is a better one then Elliot at #4 and an injured LB(who is one of my fav players).

U are right we have to wait and see and I hope becomes an All Pro. Because of him and Martin I have to like dallas a little now.

 

[purguy12]

That's true, and that shows how the game has changed in the past 5-8 years or so. But my point is, the game never stays the same, and at some point teams with excellent OLs and a stud RB are going to attack these smaller, faster defenses that are being built to stop the pass.

IMO, Dallas needs to take advantage of that O line now with a durable stud RB: This will do two things, first it will keep Tony Romo healthy and participating longer, and second, it will keep the Dallas defense off the field.

Just my thoughts, who the hell knows how it will pan out. I'm just a contrarian I guess, and have a hard time jumping the same train all the talking heads are on...

Dallas was good when they had Murray so yes a Game changer will help them. With Murray they won the East with out murray they came in last. Oline is built to run. Elliot will help that. I can't deny that.

 

[Texas Jefe]

no that is what Dallas lost in Murray. Murray was perfect for dallas and vice versa. Overall they still have a 1000 yard rusher on their team. Sorry I'm just not a fan of a RB going #4 unless he was the next AP or LT and I haven't heard anyone even mention Elliot in the same sentence as those guys. There is a lot more pressure on Elliot to turn out to be a good player then Henry. Overall value and player goes to Henry(today). In 2-3 years we will find out.

you make a good point, and your opinion and that of most people will most likely be the correct one.

Dallas is trying to repeat what they had that year with Murray, lot of T.O.P. running the ball, and protecting Romo. Yes 4 is too early in today's NFL, but my opinion is that it could be the right move considering the OL there, and to control the clock. But I'm probably delusional.

I cant stand Jerry Jones, I hate almost every one of his moves over the last 20 years, and I believe they'll probably never win a championship as long as he's calling the shots. But, I like this Elliott move...not sure what that says about me.

 

[purguy12]

you make a good point, and your opinion and that of most people will most likely be the correct one.

Dallas is trying to repeat what they had that year with Murray, lot of T.O.P. running the ball, and protecting Romo. Yes 4 is too early in today's NFL, but my opinion is that it could be the right move considering the OL there, and to control the clock. But I'm probably delusional.

I cant stand Jerry Jones, I hate almost every one of his moves over the last 20 years, and I believe they'll probably never win a championship as long as he's calling the shots. But, I like this Elliott move...not sure what that says about me.

Hey I think you got a good player. I mean damn i had Dallas graded an A- to A but when you break down Elliot at 4 and injured LB in the 2nd the draft becomes a Boom or Bust move. Can Dallas take that chance maybe. We will find out. Now you are looking at a Either F or A draft 2-3 years from now when you could of got Ramsey and Henry(2 players that will help right away). 2 Very talented players. Imagine a shut down CB like Ramsey and Henry running the ball behind that line(almost like in Bama). He knows how to play behind a top line. That would of been the safe move. I don't see that being a F grade. You are more looking at C to A class in 2-3 year.

 

[Texas Jefe]

well we'll see. As I mentioned, don't think we'll ever win until JJ hires a real GM and steps back...but I'm going to have fun watching this kid run behind that line. At least I'll get some fun out of the deal.

 

[Across The Field]

When u understand that everyone has a different opinion on things then you might finally get it. This is mine. I like Henry value better in the 2nd rd(middle not end) and I feel he can be the same or better then Elliot. Elliot has to be a HOF player(or at least close.) to be consider a great pick at #4.

And again, I've never said your opinion is wrong. I've said your way of evaluating is, and then I've given proof. If you think Henry is going to be better, fine, that's your right to think that way. However, you saying "Zeke needs to learn how to pick up blitzes" and "he can't be a bellcow because of he weighs 225/he's a finesse back" just makes you look like you really have no idea what you're talking about when logic and facts completely disagree with you. That's all.

 

[Across The Field]

no that is what Dallas lost in Murray. Murray was perfect for dallas and vice versa. Overall they still have a 1000 yard rusher on their team. Sorry I'm just not a fan of a RB going #4 unless he was the next AP or LT and I haven't heard anyone even mention Elliot in the same sentence as those guys. There is a lot more pressure on Elliot to turn out to be a good player then Henry. Overall value and player goes to Henry(today). In 2-3 years we will find out.

Actually Elliott has been mentioned many, many times in the same sentence as AP in recent weeks, ie. "he's the most complete back to be drafted since AP", which has been said by more analysts than I can even count.