The 2023-2024 NBA Season

[Mecca]

A dude who carried a team to the 6th seed where without him they'd be a bottom 3 team in the league that year.

It’s almost like it’s based more than just one single thing.

Maybe they should have given it to Durant if that’s the criteria we are using.

 

[Duffman]

But he'd be cooked in a 1 on 1 in the 90s style ball.

Lucky for him he didn’t play in the 90’s style then.

 

[Duffman]

Maybe they should have given it to Durant if that’s the criteria we are using.

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Probably saw a guy miss 27 games and didn't give him a 2nd look.

 

[Mecca]

You mean Luka, guy is constantly getting praised for how great he is on Defense.

Or does holding someone’s Defense against them only matter to the other big white foreign born player?

Steve Nash won twice.

He couldn’t shutdown a 6th grade girls rec league player.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Lucky for him he didn’t play in the 90’s style then.

Yes absolutely

We've said this many times on here.

Which again is why it's hard to stomach his winning this many MVPs.

I'd legit take Jalen Duren in a 1 on 1 against Jokic. If they played heads up I'd bet Duren would beat him 7 out of 10.

Duren would lose 10 out of 10 to Embiid. 10 out of 10 to Hakeem. 10 out of 10 to Ewing. 10 out of 10 to prime Bill Walton lol.

 

[Duffman]

Steve Nash won twice.

He couldn’t shutdown a 6th grade girls rec league player.

So then the NBA voters established a precedent that a persons defense shall not be held against them in MVP considerations. Would you say that’s correct?

 

[Mecca]

Probably saw a guy miss 27 games and didn't give him a 2nd look.

 

[tlance]

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That was lockout year.

Karl Malone missed 1 game.

Fewest games won by an MVP in an 82 game season you ask?

That was Bill Walton.

2nd was Joel Embiid last year.

 

[Duffman]

Yes absolutely

We've said this many times on here.

Which again is why it's hard to stomach his winning this many MVPs.

I'd legit take Jalen Duren in a 1 on 1 against Jokic. If they played heads up I'd bet Duren would beat him 7 out of 10.

Duren would lose 10 out of 10 to Embiid. 10 out of 10 to Hakeem. 10 out of 10 to Ewing. 10 out of 10 to prime Bill Walton lol.

But that’s sports across the board not just the NBA.

How many people questioned the legacy of NFL QB’s and their MVP’s in this day and age and how it’s not right to compare the past QB MVP winners because the league is more passing friendly right now?

No one was saying “we can’t give Mahomes or Lamar Jackson another MVP because they’re getting close to Johnny Unitas and Steve Young“.

 

[Mecca]

So then the NBA voters established a precedent that a persons defense shall not be held against them in MVP considerations. Would you say that’s correct?

So, follow the precedent of having loan forgiveness for defensive shortcomings.

But ignore the one about not prematurely placing a guy in the company of the most elite of the all time greats.

No hypocrisy to see here, I guess.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

But that’s sports across the board not just the NBA.

How many people questioned the legacy of NFL QB’s and their MVP’s in this day and age and how it’s not right to compare the past QB MVP winners because the league is more passing friendly right now?

No one was saying “we can’t give Mahomes or Lamar Jackson another MVP because they’re getting close to Johnny Unitas and Steve Young“.

This is not an equitable argument at all.

 

[Mecca]

That was lockout year.

Karl Malone missed 1 game.

Fewest games won by an MVP in an 82 game season you ask?

That was Bill Walton.

2nd was Joel Embiid last year.

Aye…

You are correct.

 

[Duffman]

So, follow the precedent of having loan forgiveness for defensive shortcomings.

But ignore the one about not prematurely placing a guy in the company of the most elite of the all time greats.

No hypocrisy to see here, I guess.

Or precedents don’t actually mean much to sports voters and everything is a case by case basis.

 

[Duffman]

This is not an equitable argument at all.

So how is it not right to compare NFL quarterbacks to the game that was played 20-40 years ago but it’s ok to do it to NBA players?

The NBA game is different now than it was 30 years ago, so is the NFL game. Are MVP‘s now not valuable because the game is geared towards passing and that benefits quarterbacks?

 

[Mecca]

Or precedents don’t actually mean much to sports voters and everything is a case by case basis.

My guy…

I wish you no ill will and I am enjoying the debate.

But you are talking in circles, tying yourself into a knot.

You can’t use something to validate your argument and then dismiss that same thought process when it shits all over your take.

 

[thunderc]

Aye…

You are correct.

So I guess this means we are to ignore 1 for Giannis and 1 for Lebron. Done.

 

[tlance]

So I guess this means we are to ignore 1 for Giannis and 1 for Lebron. Done.

No.

Because those were both shortened seasons.

Giannis because of COVID, Bron because of the lockout.

 

[Duffman]

My guy…

I wish you no ill will and I am enjoying the debate.

But you are talking in circles, tying yourself into a knot.

You can’t use something to validate your argument and then dismiss that same thought process when it shits all over your take.

I don’t think precedents matter, I believe people judge things based on how we live in and not what was the rule 20 years ago.

I was pointing out with Nash to the people who do care that there’s history for ignoring defense when it comes to MVP‘s. Voters pick and choose what they want to accept whether or not it makes them hypocrites.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

So how is it not right to compare NFL quarterbacks to the game that was played 20-40 years ago but it’s ok to do it to NBA players?

The NBA game is different now than it was 30 years ago, so is the NFL game. Are MVP‘s now not valuable because the game is geared towards passing and that benefits quarterbacks?

Everyone's point is there has been a clear bar for a guy to get multiple mvps. LeBron and MJ should each have 10 plus MVPs.

But in the case of Jokic we are seemingly tossing out the repeat winner bar and giving it to him because VORP

I can only imagine what VORP looks like for MJ in 1996.

Edit

10.8

 

[Mecca]

I don’t think precedents matter, I believe people judge things based on how we live in and not what was the rule 20 years ago.

I was pointing out with Nash to the people who do care that there’s history for ignoring defense when it comes to MVP‘s. Voters pick and choose what they want to accept whether or not it makes them hypocrites.

Okay, so why would it be unacceptable to disregard defense for Luka?