Completely Non-FF Thoughts

[obxyankeefan]

there's a lot of give and take here - championships are a huge boost to a pro athlete building their legendary status. This might not be a great example, but people don't continue to buy cars from John Elway car dealership if he doesn't have a double SB winning swan song on his way out the door. He doesn't get the front office job without those SB rings. Bronco fans would still love the guy, but they wouldn't still be celebrating him 25yrs later without those titles, it would just be fond memories that any of them would trade in an instant for a future SB victory.

Different sport, but Don Mattingly is still one of the most beloved Yankees of all -time. He is also the only major Yankee player that did not win a title.

Barry Sanders is still loved all over the greater Detroit area.

Part of the legend of Earl Campbell is he kept losing to the Steelers in the AFC Championship game.


Certain players mean more than a championship, but they are few and far between.

 

[SmokingMonkey]

Different sport, but Don Mattingly is still one of the most beloved Yankees of all -time. He is also the only major Yankee player that did not win a title.

Barry Sanders is still loved all over the greater Detroit area.

Part of the legend of Earl Campbell is he kept losing to the Steelers in the AFC Championship game.


Certain players mean more than a championship, but they are few and far between.

Not winning titles also makes it a lot easier to keep some of those memories alive too.

Poor Mattingly is easy to forget when you start talking about Yankee greats, everyone thinks back to the dominant run from the 1920s - 1950s and then jumps over pretty much all of the rest until the Joe Torre/Derek Jeter years in the late 90s/early 2000s.

 

[TREFF]

there's a lot of give and take here - championships are a huge boost to a pro athlete building their legendary status. This might not be a great example, but people don't continue to buy cars from John Elway car dealership if he doesn't have a double SB winning swan song on his way out the door. He doesn't get the front office job without those SB rings. Bronco fans would still love the guy, but they wouldn't still be celebrating him 25yrs later without those titles, it would just be fond memories that any of them would trade in an instant for a future SB vict)ory.

Just a quick touch on ol Bucky Elway..
This entire state loves that guy. He could do no wrong b4 those SB titles. Pat Bolen probably treated him better than his own kids. I think he'd still have gotten the front office job and the car dealerships without the rings.
However, his name would much further down the lists when people rank the 'all time greatest QB's' without them (as it should be, he didn't win them, Terrell Davis did).

Btw, he's also got an amazing steakhouse restaurant, not as good as Shannahans, but 5 star nonetheless

 

[SmokingMonkey]

Just a quick touch on ol Bucky Elway..
This entire state loves that guy. He could do no wrong b4 those SB titles. Pat Bolen probably treated him better than his own kids. I think he'd still have gotten the front office job and the car dealerships without the rings.
However, his name would much further down the lists when people rank the 'all time greatest QB's' without them (as it should be, he didn't win them, Terrell Davis did).

Btw, he's also got an amazing steakhouse restaurant, not as good as Shannahans, but 5 star nonetheless

I've always had a slight displeasure for the guy after his draft day bull shit, but in the end, you have to give it to him cause 1) he actually did go play a session of AA ball and was a good, so he probably could've played baseball if he really wanted to and 2) the empire he built for his family outside of football is impressive. One of those guys like Schwarzenegger that would've been successful no matter what he went into in life.

 

[TREFF]

I've always had a slight displeasure for the guy after his draft day bull shit, but in the end, you have to give it to him cause 1) he actually did go play a session of AA ball and was a good, so he probably could've played baseball if he really wanted to and 2) the empire he built for his family outside of football is impressive. One of those guys like Schwarzenegger that would've been successful no matter what he went into in life.

Never liked him either, in fact, he, and he alone, is the reason I became a Raider fan

 

[TREFF]

Zero issue losing Calvin.

As he isn’t one of the greatest receivers ever imo anyway.

Holy cow, how did I miss this one? Megatron not one of the greatest ever?

I can only think of 3 I would put above him:

#1. Rice


Randy Moss and T.O. tied for #2.
Calvin right on their heels..imho

I guess I could see arguments for Harrison and Fitzgerald..but that's about it. That's some tough grading on yer hometown boy

 

[obxyankeefan]

Holy cow, how did I miss this one? Megatron not one of the greatest ever?

I can only think of 3 I would put above him:

#1. Rice


Randy Moss and T.O. tied for #2.
Calvin right on their heels..imho

I guess I could see arguments for Harrison and Fitzgerald..but that's about it. That's some tough grading on yer hometown boy

The highs were as high as you could get with Megatron, but the lows were so low and blamed on Stafford. I can remember a number of games were Stafford would throw a great pass hitting Megatron in the hands only to have the ball bounce off to a defender. The next day all you would hear is how Stafford threw another game away.

Also remember games like the Tennessee one where Megatron caught a TD with about 15 seconds left. Then after the onside kick working, Megatron catching the tying TD.



Might be my UVA bias, but I would take Herman Moore over Megatron.

 

[broncosmitty]

Holy cow, how did I miss this one? Megatron not one of the greatest ever?

I can only think of 3 I would put above him:

#1. Rice


Randy Moss and T.O. tied for #2.
Calvin right on their heels..imho

I guess I could see arguments for Harrison and Fitzgerald..but that's about it. That's some tough grading on yer hometown boy

Not for me. Rice and Moss are worlds ahead. And TO too. Jerry and TO played until nobody was left that would pay them. That’s love of the game.

Calvin is an all time great talent. But not an all time great player imo.

ARSB has more receptions, yards and TDs than Calvin did thru three seasons. Has more career playoff wins, receptions and yards already too.

CJ’d get to start on my Alltime Lions team. But only because I’d start three WRs. Herman Moore > CJ.

I’d gladly trade him ever being a Lion for a 90’s SB.

 

[SmokingMonkey]

I’d gladly trade him ever being a Lion for a 90’s SB.

What if it was for a future SB, and you'd spend the rest of your days on the message boards defending Goff as an elite + HOF QB?

 

[TREFF]

Man..I had no idea that Megatron was not universally loved by Lions faithful. I'm surprised.

Btw, Herman Moore is definitely under rated in the 'great WR' discussions.

 

[broncosmitty]

What if it was for a future SB, and you'd spend the rest of your days on the message boards defending Goff as an elite + HOF QB?

That’s frightening.

 

[SmokingMonkey]

Myles Garrett DPOY over TJ Watt?

What a fucking joke

 

[TREFF]

Myles Garrett DPOY over TJ Watt?

What a fucking joke

I know, should've been Crosby over Watt

 

[SmokingMonkey]

I know, should've been Crosby over Watt

Pretty sure he also doesn't stack up

 

[TREFF]

View attachment 353888

Pretty sure he also doesn't stack up

90 tackles
55 solo
14.5 sacks
92 Pressures
31 QB hits
23 tackles for loss
2 FF
1 FR
0 ints
2 PD's
0 TD's

Stacks up quite well in fact...leading Watt in more than a few. And the ones Watt leads, other than sacks, not exactly a measuring stick for the position..more flukey than anything

Crosby > Watt...at least for 2023.

 

[TREFF]

Btw..the pressure number I found..Parsons 103, Garret and Watt both with 86...no idea why the author of that meme got such low totals for them

Edited..found pfr numbers.. likely the ones used in the meme..

Crosby credited with 44 pressures in that ranking

Wonder who is right??

 

[eaglesnut]

90 tackles
55 solo
14.5 sacks
92 Pressures
31 QB hits
23 tackles for loss
2 FF
1 FR
0 ints
2 PD's
0 TD's

Stacks up quite well in fact...leading Watt in more than a few. And the ones Watt leads, other than sacks, not exactly a measuring stick for the position..more flukey than anything

Crosby > Watt...at least for 2023.

 

[SmokingMonkey]

90 tackles
55 solo
14.5 sacks
92 Pressures
31 QB hits
23 tackles for loss
2 FF
1 FR
0 ints
2 PD's
0 TD's

Stacks up quite well in fact...leading Watt in more than a few. And the ones Watt leads, other than sacks, not exactly a measuring stick for the position..more flukey than anything

Crosby > Watt...at least for 2023.

Glorified run stopper. I guess if they give out awards for being on the field the most, he'll get one. The Frank Gore of EDGE rushers (jk)

 

[TREFF]

Glorified run stopper. I guess if they give out awards for being on the field the most, he'll get one. The Frank Gore of EDGE rushers (jk)

Haha, I am a bit surprised the sack numbers aren't a bit higher.

But honestly, Garret was no better than 3rd on the list. I can't understand how he won it over either of Watt or Crosby

 

[SmokingMonkey]

Haha, I am a bit surprised the sack numbers aren't a bit higher.

But honestly, Garret was no better than 3rd on the list. I can't understand how he won it over either of Watt or Crosby

Very true, it's like they cast their vote in October after Garret had those big games against titans and colts, guess the last 2 months of the regular season where Garret didn't do anything must not count for that regular season award.

Their defense was so bad down the stretch, Browns just got lucky Flacco singlehandedly pushed them into the playoffs.