Minnesota #1? Why not?!

[Gator]

NOT only in my imagination fucktard. I'm not the only person who feels that 2020 should be disregarded and basically not counted against anyone, several commentators on tv I've heard say just that, AND...

THE NCAA SAID IT!!!!! Actions speak louder than words and not one single college athlete is required to count 2020 against their 4 years of eligibility.


And I disregarded both Fleck and Dabo's first seasons, that's maybe not standard practice when doing comparisons, but it's common practice as 1st seasons are most often a coach coaching almost entirely another coaches players, with redshirting being more common in football than any other sport a new coaches recruits often don't even crack the lineup in a coaches first year. And Dabo's first year was even more like this as he came in half way through the season. So it's understandable that you want to take credit for losing to tougher competition that season, but it was only partially earned by Dabo. Hence when I excluded that season AND that bowl game loss from my analysis. And again, it's understandable why you desperately want to include Dabo's 5th year in the comparison, while Fleck has only coached 4 non-covid affected seasons, so it's NOT being dishonest to exclude both Fleck's 2020 season and Dabo's 2012 season when doing an honest assessment of their early developing years at their respective schools. In addition, the disregarding of 2020 isn't something that benefits only Minnesota, every other team in the nation also gets to retain it's players for an additional season if those players want to play that extra season.


So looking only at 2009-2011, you can try to argue Clemson's bowl opponents were tougher competition but I believe few would agree with you.

Auburn was 9-3 before the game, as was West Virginia, and Auburn was ranked #9 in the country when Minnesota defeated them, WVU was only ranked #23 when Clemson lost to them. And AGAIN, losing to good teams doesn't mean you are good. Minnesota actually BEAT a Top Ten ranked team, Top 20(#14) at the EOS, something Dabo only did once during those 3 years vs a #19 ranked Miami

South Florida, SOUTH FLORIDA DUDE, lol, was only a G5 7-5 and unranked and didn't even get a single vote in the AP poll even after beating Dabo's weak ass team. Compared to a 6-6 WVU most cfb fans would assume any P5 school with a 6-6 record is better than a G5 school with a measly 7-5 record. Sorry again UMn comes out ahead here. Don't make me look up the team's schedules dude, because you know there won't be a single decent win in USF's season, but there very well could be in WVU's.

finally, 7-5 Kentucky, vs 7-5 Georgia Tech, equal records, both P5, without looking up who they played, I'd call that a tie.


So, 3-0 vs 9-3 #9 ranked Aub, 7-5 WVU & 6-6 GT is far more impressive than 1-2 vs 9-3 #23 WVU, 7-5 G5 USF & 7-5 UK.

Only a biased idiot like you would not see this. But your insisting on including 2008, ANOTHER LOSS, and 2012 shows me that deep down you DO know that I am right, you just are desperate to try to figure out a way to prove me wrong.



As for Fleck's losing to more teams with losing records, I did not fail to mention them, as those 5 losses were included in the win-loss record I listed and despite losing those 5 games, Fleck was still able to win more games than Dabo did in the 3 seasons highlighted.

I smell blood in the water!
Losing the battle so we resort to profanity, good then you know I'm winning!

The NCAA also said that ALL of the STATS are valid and go into the record books!!!!! So PJ has to keep the 2020 season!!!

Blah, blah, blah...

You are the one trying to limit things to PJ only three decent years! I have and will keep insisting on counting ALL of the seasons and ALL of the games.

Here is a listing of ALL of the games for both coaches during their first FIVE seasons.

Dabo's first five seasons involved 61 games and PJ's first five seasons involved 58 games (all of them so far). Dabo had the better record, played more AP ranked teams, had the better record vs AP ranked teams.

Dabo played 39 ACC opponents (27-12) and PJ played 43 B1G opponents (21-22).
Dabo and PJ both faced 12 AP ranked Opponents IN-conference (Dabo 6-6 and PJ 1-11).
Dabo played 23 ACC teams with winning records (12-11) and PJ played 20 B1G teams with winning records (5-15).

Dabo played 16 ACC teams with losing records (15-1) while PJ played 23 B1G teams with losing records (16-7).

Dabo played 12 OOC P5 teams while PJ played 5 OOC P5 opponents while
Dabo faced 11 OOC P5 teams with winning records and PJ played TWO OOC P5 teams with winning records.
Dabo played 6 ranked P5 teams OOC while PJ played ONE.


Dabo played ONE OOC P5 teams with a losing record while PJ played three OOC P5 with losing records.

Both played four G5 teams with winning records with each one playing ONE ranked G5 team
Dabo played two G5 teams that had losing records plus 3 FCA teams while PJ played 5 G5 teams with losing records plus 1 FCS.

That is a listing of ALL of the games for both Dabo and PJ. You can slice and dice these games any way that you want but the big picture remains Dabo clearly played a tougher schedule AND had a better record over this span than PJ.

 

[Jordan23]

I didn't bring up NDSU. An NDSU fan brought them up and tried claiming they are equal to Minnesota right now.

I've done two things, proved that the Minnesota teams NDSU played were nothing close to the UMn teams under Kill or Fleck other than maybe each of their first seasons.

And also showing how NDSU is practically an fbs team who simply plays in an inferior division.

NDSU produces several nfl players. More than a ton of fbs teams.

Exactly, Ndsu does generate nfl talent. You think they wouldn’t compare with the gophers fairly often? There is a reason they are 6-0 in their last 6 FBD matchups. It’s not by luck they are winning.

 

[HawkFan]

Exactly, Ndsu does generate nfl talent. You think they wouldn’t compare with the gophers fairly often? There is a reason they are 6-0 in their last 6 FBD matchups. It’s not by luck they are winning.

NDSU has 15 on active NFL rosters, some of which grew up in MN and went unrecruited by MN
MN has 14 on active NFL rosters

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Exactly, Ndsu does generate nfl talent. You think they wouldn’t compare with the gophers fairly often? There is a reason they are 6-0 in their last 6 FBD matchups. It’s not by luck they are winning.

but you said NDSU compared with Minnesota. Minnesota has produced more NFL talent the last couple of years, the last 3 drafts, than all but 12 teams.

and did any of those 6 teams NDSU beat finish a season ranked in the Top 25?

UMn's beat #9 PSU, #14 Aub, #18 Fresno St, #27 Wisc, #29 Purdue & SDSU in 2019, in just the last 3 non-covid affected seasons, or since 2018.

NDSU has never beaten a single EOS AP fbs Top 10 team, and how many EOS fbs Top 25 teams? Zero still?

The Iowa and KSU wins were notable, and some of the gopher squads of the past could have been vulnerable as NDSU proved, but not since Fleck's 2nd season. I'd say NDSU has improved since 2011, but Minnesota has VASTLY improved.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

NDSU has 15 on active NFL rosters, some of which grew up in MN and went unrecruited by MN
MN has 14 on active NFL rosters

How many years has it taken NDSU to produce those 15 players? They've been winning fcs national titles for over a decade now.

Minnesota has produced almost all of those 14 since Fleck showed up as far as I can tell

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

NDSU has 15 on active NFL rosters, some of which grew up in MN and went unrecruited by MN

They went unrecruited by almost all fbs schools. Some players need more time to develop and/or develop confidence, and many of Fleck's and even some of Kill's stars that got into the NFL were passed over by almost all P5 fbs schools.

 

[HawkFan]

How many years has it taken NDSU to produce those 15 players? They've been winning fcs national titles for over a decade now.

Minnesota has produced almost all of those 14 since Fleck showed up as far as I can tell

Bison 12 in the last 4 years
Gophers 12 in the last 4 years

 

[HawkFan]

For reference
Hawkeyes 32 in the last 4 years

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

For reference
Hawkeyes 32 in the last 4 years

I don't believe you. Prove it.

 

[HawkFan]

I don't believe you. Prove it.

2024 Iowa Hawkeyes in the NFL | Ourlads.com

The most respected source for NFL Draft info among NFL Fans, Media, and Scouts, plus accurate, up to date NFL Depth Charts, Practice Squads and Rosters.

www.ourlads.com

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

2024 Iowa Hawkeyes in the NFL | Ourlads.com

The most respected source for NFL Draft info among NFL Fans, Media, and Scouts, plus accurate, up to date NFL Depth Charts, Practice Squads and Rosters.

www.ourlads.com

I only counted 27 in the last 4 years. 20 in the last 3. The last 3 was the time period I referenced when I said UMn ranked 13th in the country in the # of players drafted.

UMn's catching up with Iowa and surely will catch up again after this season.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

For reference
Hawkeyes 32 in the last 4 years

That won't help your Hawkeyes this season. Not sure what will? Your team sucks

 

[HawkFan]

I only counted 27 in the last 4 years. 20 in the last 3. The last 3 was the time period I referenced when I said UMn ranked 13th in the country in the # of players drafted.

UMn's catching up with Iowa and surely will catch up again after this season.

My bad I was using 2018, just as I did for MN and NDSU

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

My bad I was using 2018, just as I did for MN and NDSU

Forgivable, as long as you explain the misunderstanding.

I was using 2020-2022 drafts. Wouldn't surprise me if Iowa was still ahead even with just those 3 drafts seeing as they won 26 games the last 3 seasons.

 

[HawkFan]

That won't help your Hawkeyes this season. Not sure what will? Your team sucks

Time will tell

It’s been 2,853 days since MN last beat Iowa and counting

We’ve had 3 presidents

4 Olympic Games

PJ Fleck has had 5 contracts

 

[HawkFan]

2019 Recruiting class rank, Iowa 41 MN 48
2020 Iowa 35 MN 38
2021 Iowa 24 MN 38
2022 Iowa 30 MN 49
2023 Iowa 28 MN 38

Claeys last class was ranked 46. Fleck has moved the needle about 4 spots in recruiting

 

[Gator]

Hey, Fred..., Here's part of an SI article...

Smell Something Burning? It’s Your Season Going Up in Flames​

The entire Big Ten West (9). Did you see the shambles Saturday? And not just Nebraska losing to Georgia Southern. There also was Wisconsin losing at home to Washington State, Northwestern losing at home to Duke, Iowa losing at home to Iowa State. In a mere two weeks, six of the seven teams already have lost (take a bow, 2-0 Minnesota—which has played two chumps).

 

[HawkFan]

2015–2016 Tracy Claeys 11–8 .579
2017–present P. J. Fleck 35–23 .603

"Drastic improvement"

 

[Jordan23]

They went unrecruited by almost all fbs schools. Some players need more time to develop and/or develop confidence, and many of Fleck's and even some of Kill's stars that got into the NFL were passed over by almost all P5 fbs schools.

Many recruits Ndsu gets have had FBS offers yet they have chosen Ndsu cause they have a better chance of being noticed than some lower mid major FBS school

 

[Bedlam131]

Why?