Bill Simmons trade idea

[flyerhawk]

Simmons was talking to Kevin O'Connor about hoops and offered this trade idea.

Anthony Davis for Ben Simmons. Perhaps other pieces would need to be involved.

It is an intriguing option for both teams. I doubt either team would actually do it but there are reasons why it would work for both teams.

 

[Gman]

...I doubt either team would actually do it...

^ Yeah ^

... it's interesting, for sure... but yeah.

 

[flyerhawk]

^ Yeah ^

... it's interesting, for sure... but yeah.

Trading superstars is always tricky business.

The only way this trade could happen is if AD says he is 100% leaving to the Pelicans and gives strong assurances to the Sixers that he would resign with them to play with Embiid and Butler. Even then it is hard to see but it is possible.

I can't imagine any team would be able to outbid the Sixers with that offer. Maybe the Celtics if they were to offer Tatum.

 

[YourFriendGannon]

Philly might set a record for how close (percentage-wise) the combined salaries of 3 players is to the luxury tax if they extended Davis and Butler.

I see it as that would be a white flag move for New Orleans, probably, where they would re-tool for a couple years overturning much of or the rest of their roster.

 

[YourFriendGannon]

And I do think it is conceivable that a contending team could be built someday with Simmons as the core piece.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Trading superstars is always tricky business.

The especially tricky part is when one guy is a superstar and the other can, at best, be described as "potential star at some point in the future or potential Jabari Parker 2.0".

 

[flyerhawk]

The especially tricky part is when one guy is a superstar and the other can, at best, be described as "potential star at some point in the future or potential Jabari Parker 2.0".

Hmmm. I don't think you will find too many people that put Simmons floor as being Jabari Parker since he's already exceeded that.

Look at any list of top 25 players in the NBA RIGHT NOW and he is on the list. Without a jump shot. Playing a hybrid point guard position, the toughest position to play as a young player.

I honestly don't know if the Sixers would make this trade. I don't know if the Sixers would be willing to trade Simmons for ANYONE. His floor is consistent all-star caliber player. His ceiling is generational talent.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Hmmm. I don't think you will find too many people that put Simmons floor as being Jabari Parker since he's already exceeded that.

Look at any list of top 25 players in the NBA RIGHT NOW and he is on the list. Without a jump shot. Playing a hybrid point guard position, the toughest position to play as a young player.

I honestly don't know if the Sixers would make this trade. I don't know if the Sixers would be willing to trade Simmons for ANYONE. His floor is consistent all-star caliber player. His ceiling is generational talent.

2nd year Jabari exceeded current Jabari.

The man is a guard who doesn't shoot. Go on about his size and his advantage in his position over defenders down low but eventually the team suffers due to his shortcomings. You can call him top 25 if you want but if he can't figure out how the hell to shoot from any sort of range he's basically a specialist player specializing in a part of the game that's fading in importance.

On the flip, AD is everything you want and need and if NO offered Philly a one-up deal him for Simmons they would be insane not to take it.

 

[flyerhawk]

2nd year Jabari exceeded current Jabari.

The man is a guard who doesn't shoot. Go on about his size and his advantage in his position over defenders down low but eventually the team suffers due to his shortcomings. You can call him top 25 if you want but if he can't figure out how the hell to shoot from any sort of range he's basically a specialist player specializing in a part of the game that's fading in importance.

On the flip, AD is everything you want and need and if NO offered Philly a one-up deal him for Simmons they would be insane not to take it.

I'm not the one calling him a top 25 player. These guys are...

NBArank: Predicting the best players this season, from 20-11
Top 100 NBA players for 2018-19: LeBron James headlines rankings front-loaded with West superstars
Top 100 NBA Players: Ranking LeBron, KD and more
The Top 50 Players in the NBA For 2018-2019

and so on and so on. And he's 22.

Simmons has 3 years of price control. AD has one. They are not in the same situation. If the Pelicans wait to trade him until next season they will get pennies on the dollar compared to Simmons.

FTR, Jabari Parker in his 2nd year. 14 PPG 1.7 APG 5.2 RPG 14.8 PER
Ben Simmons 2nd year 16 PPG 7.9 APF 9.1 RPG 20.8 PER

 

[CitySushi]

Hmmm. I don't think you will find too many people that put Simmons floor as being Jabari Parker since he's already exceeded that.

Look at any list of top 25 players in the NBA RIGHT NOW and he is on the list. Without a jump shot. Playing a hybrid point guard position, the toughest position to play as a young player.

I honestly don't know if the Sixers would make this trade. I don't know if the Sixers would be willing to trade Simmons for ANYONE. His floor is consistent all-star caliber player. His ceiling is generational talent.

Simmons is a really intriguing offer for AD, but there are a lot of good deals out there to be made. What if the Trailblazers offered a deal centered around McCollum and Nurkic. Pairing AD with Dame would be really amazing. Pelicans would get back an all-star caliber guard with a quality starting center in the NBA. A lineup of Jrue, McCollum, Mirotic, Randle and Nurkic would be at least fun to watch.

Celtics could put together a nice package as well rather easily. What if the Knicks offered Porzingas, THJ and picks, in an attempt to further lure KD to them in the off-season?

Or what if the Warriors gave them Iguodala and Livingston. That'd be a hard offer to pass up. (kidding, obv).

Lots of options if the Pelicans decide they want to deal AD.

 

[msgkings322]

Simmons is a really intriguing offer for AD, but there are a lot of good deals out there to be made. What if the Trailblazers offered a deal centered around McCollum and Nurkic. Pairing AD with Dame would be really amazing. Pelicans would get back an all-star caliber guard with a quality starting center in the NBA. A lineup of Jrue, McCollum, Mirotic, Randle and Nurkic would be at least fun to watch.

Celtics could put together a nice package as well rather easily. What if the Knicks offered Porzingas, THJ and picks, in an attempt to further lure KD to them in the off-season?

Or what if the Warriors gave them Iguodala and Livingston. That'd be a hard offer to pass up. (kidding, obv).

Lots of options if the Pelicans decide they want to deal AD.

Iggy, Livingston, and.....

Cousins! Maybe they miss him.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I'm not the one calling him a top 25 player. These guys are...

NBArank: Predicting the best players this season, from 20-11
Top 100 NBA players for 2018-19: LeBron James headlines rankings front-loaded with West superstars
Top 100 NBA Players: Ranking LeBron, KD and more
The Top 50 Players in the NBA For 2018-2019

and so on and so on. And he's 22.

Simmons has 3 years of price control. AD has one. They are not in the same situation. If the Pelicans wait to trade him until next season they will get pennies on the dollar compared to Simmons.

FTR, Jabari Parker in his 2nd year. 14 PPG 1.7 APG 5.2 RPG 14.8 PER
Ben Simmons 2nd year 16 PPG 7.9 APF 9.1 RPG 20.8 PER

And yet each and every one of those rankings lists his shooting as a big flaw papered over by what he's (very) good at. The way the league is moving that flaw is going to be much more of a liability than it already is. Why not upgrade if you can?

Who said anyone was in the same situation? Don't move the goalposts here. If control is the matter at hand (and I have no idea why it would be when talking about an AD trade as everyone knows the circumstances by now, just as they did with Kawhi) then sure, hold onto Simmons, don't go after the upgrade and (likely) never win a title with your current core. How long does Philly have to win right now? How long does Butler have left before those Thibs years catch up to him? If it's win now, trading Simmons for AD is a no-brainer.

/I only used Jabari to compare because he's the most recent non-Sixer high pick I could think of who stumbled. I don't think Ben Simmons is Jabari - Jabari makes a 3 pt'r or two every now and then

 

[flyerhawk]

Simmons is a really intriguing offer for AD, but there are a lot of good deals out there to be made. What if the Trailblazers offered a deal centered around McCollum and Nurkic. Pairing AD with Dame would be really amazing. Pelicans would get back an all-star caliber guard with a quality starting center in the NBA. A lineup of Jrue, McCollum, Mirotic, Randle and Nurkic would be at least fun to watch.

Celtics could put together a nice package as well rather easily. What if the Knicks offered Porzingas, THJ and picks, in an attempt to further lure KD to them in the off-season?

Or what if the Warriors gave them Iguodala and Livingston. That'd be a hard offer to pass up. (kidding, obv).

Lots of options if the Pelicans decide they want to deal AD.

Porzingas can't stay healthy.

McCollum is 27 and getting paid 27 million a year.

I'm sure that teams COULD offer better deals that the Sixers. But how many teams could do it and not completely empty the cupboard? As I said, the Celtics could perhaps make a better deal if they were willing to throw in Tatum. But I don't care how many picks they offer, picks don't measure up to established young stars.

 

[CitySushi]

Porzingas can't stay healthy.

McCollum is 27 and getting paid 27 million a year.

I'm sure that teams COULD offer better deals that the Sixers. But how many teams could do it and not completely empty the cupboard? As I said, the Celtics could perhaps make a better deal if they were willing to throw in Tatum. But I don't care how many picks they offer, picks don't measure up to established young stars.

Just being completely objective here about Simmons (and I'm a big fan btw) what is Simmons upside? He's a guard that can't shoot in a league that has shifted away from post play and is now very 3-heavy. At a certain point if Simmons can't ever be a threat from more than 6 feet out, his value diminishes GREATLY. He still holds tremendous trade value now because of his youth, but for sake of argument, let's say he never develops a jump shot. He's basically like a tall version of Rubio and/or a Lamar Odom type player.

McCollum is 27, but Jrue Holiday is 28 as well. The Pelicans don't exactly have a wealth of young talent, but they'd have two dynamic guards in their prime, a really good big in Nurkic and after that they'd have pretty much open cap space. They could go after another Max player to play with those guys. If say they traded McCollum and Nurkic for AD and Solomon Hill, not including Randle's option the Pelicans would have 79M on the books. They'd have just below a max slot to go after another free agent.

I just don't see how Holiday and Simmons work as a back-court. The Pelicans have Holiday signed through 2022. They have to factor that in to any deal they make.

 

[flyerhawk]

Just being completely objective here about Simmons (and I'm a big fan btw) what is Simmons upside? He's a guard that can't shoot in a league that has shifted away from post play and is now very 3-heavy. At a certain point if Simmons can't ever be a threat from more than 6 feet out, his value diminishes GREATLY. He still holds tremendous trade value now because of his youth, but for sake of argument, let's say he never develops a jump shot. He's basically like a tall version of Rubio and/or a Lamar Odom type player.

McCollum is 27, but Jrue Holiday is 28 as well. The Pelicans don't exactly have a wealth of young talent, but they'd have two dynamic guards in their prime, a really good big in Nurkic and after that they'd have pretty much open cap space. They could go after another Max player to play with those guys. If say they traded McCollum and Nurkic for AD and Solomon Hill, not including Randle's option the Pelicans would have 79M on the books. They'd have just below a max slot to go after another free agent.

I just don't see how Holiday and Simmons work as a back-court. The Pelicans have Holiday signed through 2022. They have to factor that in to any deal they make.

What is Simmons' upside? Go take a look at the Bucks and you see the sort of player that Simmons MIGHT become. He doesn't need to be a threat from the perimeter. He needs to be a threat from 10 ft. I would argue that the biggest reason why he isn't right now is simply because he doesn't want to take those shots.

McCollum is a quality player. But there is a zero percent chance of him being a transcendent player. He's 27 and has never made a single all-star team. Not sure why you think that McCollum and Holiday would be such a great fit.

If the Pelicans start pinning their hopes on signing max players, it's time for them to move the team.

Option #1 for the Pelicans is keeping AD. With him they are a move or two away from being an elite team. Without him, they barely justify existing in New Orleans

Option #2 is to trade AD in the hopes of getting a generational talent.

Option #3 is to trade AD for a bunch of draft picks.

Option #4 is to trade AD for some good established players that will make them competitive and a 2nd round playoff exit.

Your proposal is an Option #4 scenario where they top out at around 50 wins, sorta like what the Spurs did.

 

[flyerhawk]

And yet each and every one of those rankings lists his shooting as a big flaw papered over by what he's (very) good at. The way the league is moving that flaw is going to be much more of a liability than it already is. Why not upgrade if you can?

Giannis is shooting 15% from 3 this year. 15%! That is beyond inefficient. But he makes up for it by being essentially unstoppable in the paint and the boards.

Who said anyone was in the same situation? Don't move the goalposts here. If control is the matter at hand (and I have no idea why it would be when talking about an AD trade as everyone knows the circumstances by now, just as they did with Kawhi) then sure, hold onto Simmons, don't go after the upgrade and (likely) never win a title with your current core. How long does Philly have to win right now? How long does Butler have left before those Thibs years catch up to him? If it's win now, trading Simmons for AD is a no-brainer.

To be clear, I didn't say the Sixers wouldn't make that trade. I said that I don't know if they would. A lot of it would depend on whether they see the Embiid/Simmons pairing as viable long term. I have no idea about that.

I only used Jabari to compare because he's the most recent non-Sixer high pick I could think of who stumbled. I don't think Ben Simmons is Jabari - Jabari makes a 3 pt'r or two every now and then

Jabari also had a major injury in his 3rd year. And has shown little interest in playing any actual defense.

 

[CitySushi]

Giannis is shooting 15% from 3 this year. 15%! That is beyond inefficient. But he makes up for it by being essentially unstoppable in the paint and the boards.



To be clear, I didn't say the Sixers wouldn't make that trade. I said that I don't know if they would. A lot of it would depend on whether they see the Embiid/Simmons pairing as viable long term. I have no idea about that.



Jabari also had a major injury in his 3rd year. And has shown little interest in playing any actual defense.

So Simmons is Giannis 2.0?

 

[flyerhawk]

So Simmons is Giannis 2.0?

You asked what Simmons upside is. Changing your question to a declarative statement is not exactly honest.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Giannis is shooting 15% from 3 this year. 15%! That is beyond inefficient. But he makes up for it by being essentially unstoppable in the paint and the boards.

When Simmons dominates a game as consistently as Giannis, get back to me.

To be clear, I didn't say the Sixers wouldn't make that trade. I said that I don't know if they would. A lot of it would depend on whether they see the Embiid/Simmons pairing as viable long term. I have no idea about that.

A lot of it would depend on if the entire front office is crashing off a coke binge on the day the trade is offered. Nobody on earth turns that deal down.

Jabari also had a major injury in his 3rd year. And has shown little interest in playing any actual defense.

And Simmons had a major injury and has shown little interest in developing a shot from range.

 

[CitySushi]

You asked what Simmons upside is. Changing your question to a declarative statement is not exactly honest.

How did I change my question to a declarative statement? I was simply asking for further clarification. You don't have to get all defensive about it, lol.

As I said, I'm as big of a fan of Simmons as any one around here, Sixer fans aside. I just don't know what his top tier level game is.

Simmons, IMO, is more of a facilitator, with scoring as his bonus. Giannis is more of a downhill scorer, with the ability to create. There's a difference. I don't know if you can ask a guy like Simmons to completely change his game. It's like the argument that's been around for years about Lebron. Just because he possesses the ability to get to the rim every time, it's not in his nature to do so as a basketball player.