Series Thread: ECF: Boston Celtics vs Cleveland Cavs

[Wamu]

Stop that!

 

[Wamu]

Seems like every year LeBron is playing a team in the ECF decimated by injuries. Happened about 3 times or so against the Bulls and its happening again.


The fact, the Celtics even made it this far in the East actually speaks to tunes of how PATHETIC the East currently is. If they played in the West they probably wouldn't even have made the playoffs. And if they did, they would have been easily DESTROYED in the first round. (in the horrid East with terrible teams they reach a conference finals. ROFLMAO)

All things considered, LeBron SHOULD have a buttload of finals appearances. He's been on a great team every year since 2010 and most of his main competition have been missing key players on top of that (or they did play and weren't at 100 percent physically). Theres no reason to hype his finals appearances. It should be EXPECTED when all these things are considered.


We'll see what happens in the finals when this isn't the case.

Stop w/ the injury bullshit. Otherwise you better mention that in '15 the Warriors didn't play a single team that was 100% for the playoffs. Of course that's different though right troll?


1st round: Pelicans PG Jrue Holiday was limited to 55 total minutes & missed game 1 because of a right tibia problem.

2nd round: Grizzles PG Mike Conley missed game 1 w/ a facial fracture & Tony Allen play just 5 minutes in the last 2 games because of a hamstring.

3rd round: Rockets didn't having starting PG Patrick Beverly & their back up C. Dwight Howard played the series w/ a torn MCL & torn meniscus suffered in the WCF.

Finals: Cavs didn't have Irving or Love.


Now the Warriors probably would have won it all anyway but the injury bug hit every team they played that year. So shut the hell up.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I don't necessarily disagree with your overall prediction... I'm at Cleveland in either 5 or 6 myself... however, I think you underestimate how and why the C's are playing well.

A good deal of their effectiveness is precisely because they are amorphous and tough to predict. There is no one or two guys to "key on" and no one or two "bread and butter" plays that a defense can pin down and strategize against.

Rather, you got a team offense where Jaylen Brown goes for 30 one night... Tatum gets a steady 20+ in the flow... Rozier gets his another night... etc., etc.

They're a blob on offense and defense.

to a certain extent- but their big men- Theiss and horford- are really not that versatile....not like Thad Young and Turner were for the Pacers

their wings and back court? absolutely

 

[Gman]

to a certain extent- but their big men- Theiss and horford- are really not that versatile....not like Thad Young and Turner were for the Pacers

their wings and back court? absolutely

Baynes is the least versatile member of the blob, yes... (although he's strangely become a 3 pt sniper this playoff season)...

Horford is plenty versatile... dude has been an animal these playoffs.

 

[Battlelyon]

 

[WiggyRuss]

Baynes is the least versatile member of the blob, yes... (although he's strangely become a 3 pt sniper this playoff season)...

Horford is plenty versatile... dude has been an animal these playoffs.

you think Horford is versatile enough to guard Love on the perimeter?

I have seen the answer to that question.

 

[Gman]

you think Horford is versatile enough to guard Love on the perimeter?

I have seen the answer to that question.

Just judging those 2 in a bubble by themselves?... yes.

What warps any calculation concerning the Cav's is the LeBron James effect... but you already know that.

Horford has guarded Giannis and Ben Simmons in consecutive playoff series.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Just judging those 2 in a bubble by themselves?... yes.

What warps any calculation concerning the Cav's is the LeBron James effect... but you already know that.

Horford has guarded Giannis and Ben Simmons in consecutive playoff series.

whats the difference between Giannis, Simmons--- and Kevin Love?

I know you can get there.....

 

[Gman]

whats the difference between Giannis, Simmons--- and Kevin Love?

I know you can get there.....

Yes, Love shoots better...

... now let's see if you can get there. Is the reason that Kevin Love gets good 3 pt looks more about Kevin Love or LeBron James?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Yes, Love shoots better...

... now let's see if you can get there. Is the reason that Kevin Love gets good 3 pt looks more about Kevin Love or LeBron James?

i dunno- Kevin Love did score 26 pts a game for a couple seasons in Minnesota-- his last 3 full years in Minnesota (other than the one he played only 18 games in since he was injjured) he shot 38% from 3, 37% from 3 and 42% from 3. Took about a 1,000 3 pointers those 3 years and shot about a combined 39-40%...

so you tell me.

 

[Gman]

i dunno- Kevin Love did score 26 pts a game for a couple seasons in Minnesota-- his last 3 full years in Minnesota (other than the one he played only 18 games in since he was injjured) he shot 38% from 3, 37% from 3 and 42% from 3. Took about a 1,000 3 pointers those 3 years and shot about a combined 39-40%...

so you tell me.

No one is denying that Kevin Love is a decent 3 pt shooter.

Rather, you're claiming Al Horford can't hope to defend him... you quote prior history to support this claim.

My counter-point to that is pointing out that there is a ginormous confounding factor which affects such a claim... the fact that LeBron James distends opposing defenses so out of shape that opportunities are opened elsewhere for everyone else.

So the question is begged: Is Kevin Love out on the perimeter shaking and baking... or is he more benefitting from LeBron doing LeBron things?

 

[WiggyRuss]

No one is denying that Kevin Love is a decent 3 pt shooter.

Rather, you're claiming Al Horford can't hope to defend him... you quote prior history to support this claim.

My counter-point to that is pointing out that there is a ginormous confounding factor which affects such a claim... the fact that LeBron James distends opposing defenses so out of shape that opportunities are opened elsewhere for everyone else.

So the question is begged: Is Kevin Love out on the perimeter shaking and baking... or is he more benefitting from LeBron doing LeBron things?

sowhat you didnt answer your own question:

"now let's see if you can get there. Is the reason that Kevin Love gets good 3 pt looks more about Kevin Love or LeBron James?"

my point is that Al horford is to slow to run around picks on the perimeter where Korver and Love or Hill and Love or LeBron and Love play their games. My point is that Horford is too slow to stay connected to Love on the perimeter and Love will burn the Celtics if they try and guard him with Love.

Here--- a very good read- should give you a good idea of what we might see Sunday

Lowe: Love and Korver aren't just watching LeBron

 

[WiggyRuss]

So the question is begged: Is Kevin Love out on the perimeter shaking and baking... or is he more benefitting from LeBron doing LeBron things?

does that answer your question?

It also became the first building block in a unique partnership between Love and Korver that grows more complex with every game -- an improvisational off-ball dance of circles, zig-zags, and screens set in every direction until the defense falls in on itself. LeBron lords over the action from the top of the arc, waiting to fire the ball to whoever pops open.

It has reinvigorated Love, and produced the kind of secondary, LeBron-adjacent offense the Cleveland Cavaliers lacked in limping past the Indiana Pacers in the first round.

Love and Korver are second and third, respectively, on the team in postseason scoring. Cleveland piled up 125 points per 100 possessions against Toronto in 99 minutes with LeBron, Love and Korver on the floor, and outscored the Raptors by 41 points over that time, per NBA.com. Korver and Love are 50-of-117 combined from deep -- 43 percent -- in the playoffs.

"Those three together are just really, really good," says Nate McMillan, the Pacers coach who dealt with them for seven games in the first round. "There really isn't anything you can plan for. They just kind of play random basketball."

Korver and Love would smile hearing McMillan describe what they do as "random." Aside from that set pindown play, they react in the moment to how the defense approaches them -- and which two defenders are involved. It mostly starts with Korver positioning himself to run around a Love screen. That is dangerous enough. Staying attached to Korver at all costs is on the first page of any opponent scouting report.

Some defenders plant themselves between Korver and Love, barricading Korver's path to the pick -- a technique coaches call "top-blocking." A variant: Korver's defender might glue himself onto Korver's outside hip, closer to the sideline, taking an angle that would make it easier to maneuver around Love's screen.

"We just do these things on the fly," Korver says. "It's just making reads. Everything works better if it's just you making reads."

Korver would be threatening running off screens from Bismack Biyombo. Using a screener who can shoot 3s and post up is unfair. Trap Korver, and Love fades to the corner for a quick-trigger triple. Switch, and Love bulldozes a little guy.

"You can't put a 5 on Love," McMillan says. "You just can't."

Sometimes, Love will rush down and screen for Korver in the corner instead of waiting for him. If Love makes contact, he might plow into the paint and drag Korver's defender with him -- engineering the same switch:

When Love feels like a participant, and not a bystander, he tends to play with more spirit on both ends. "We can't just stand and watch LeBron," Korver says. "That's a trap we all fall into. It's fine to do that sometimes. But we have to stay involved."

For the season, the Cavs have scored almost 1.1 points per possession when a Love screen for Korver leads directly to a shot, and almost 1.3 points per possession -- a gigantic number near the top of the overall leaderboard -- when Korver screens for Love, per Second Spectrum tracking data.

 

[Gman]

sowhat you didnt answer your own question:

"now let's see if you can get there. Is the reason that Kevin Love gets good 3 pt looks more about Kevin Love or LeBron James?"

my point is that Al horford is to slow to run around picks on the perimeter where Korver and Love or Hill and Love or LeBron and Love play their games. My point is that Horford is too slow to stay connected to Love on the perimeter and Love will burn the Celtics if they try and guard him with Love.

Here--- a very good read- should give you a good idea of what we might see Sunday

Lowe: Love and Korver aren't just watching LeBron

As we discussed earlier in the thread... I believe the C's are going to switch on the perimeter in certain off-the-ball screen situations and look to take away easy 3 pt looks first and foremost.

Then they'll look to deal with (as best they can) mismatches that may be created if a guy like Kevin Love looks to post up a Jason Tatum or Marcus Smart or Marcus Morris or Semi Ojeleye.

This is the lesser of two evils approach they took against Philly to good effect.

 

[WiggyRuss]

As we discussed earlier in the thread... I believe the C's are going to switch on the perimeter in certain off-the-ball screen situations and look to take away easy 3 pt looks first and foremost.

Then they'll look to deal with (as best they can) mismatches that may be created if a guy like Kevin Love looks to post up a Jason Tatum or Marcus Smart or Marcus Morris or Semi Ojeleye.

This is the lesser of two evils approach they took against Philly to good effect.

so, say Smart is guarding Korver and Horford is guarding Love.....they wil lswitch and horford will guard Korver?

or if Theiss is guarding Love and Tatum is guarding JR---- Theiss will switch onto JR and Tatum on Love?

there isnt an easy asnwer

Love and Hill were running swtiches to perfection as well last round

its what makes cleeland tough to guard.

 

[Wamu]

Can't remember (no jokes @ChiefsLakers67!) if I've posted this before. This is what I hope happens. Not what I think will happen.

 

[Gman]

so, say Smart is guarding Korver and Horford is guarding Love.....they wil lswitch and horford will guard Korver?

Korver isn't beating anybody one on one. I believe if the Cav's threw a 2nd pick at Horford in such a scenario, the C's would merely switch again.

or if Theiss is guarding Love and Tatum is guarding JR---- Theiss will switch onto JR and Tatum on Love?

Again, Theis is injured. You're thinking of Baynes... but I get your point.

This one would be a tougher scenario for the Celtics because I think JR could actually break down and create by himself in such an eventuality.

It'll be interesting how the C's decide to use Baynes this series. I'd normally suggest they may try to play him less... but the C's have been hit hard by injuries and have a short bench.

The C's have conducted interesting experiments in the past such as playing Semi Ojeleye at the 5 spot.

there isnt an easy asnwer.

Well... I knew said there was.

Cleveland has a great offense with the best player in basketball at the helm. I'm picking y'all to win the series, aren't I?

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Muthafucking Cavs in three, bitches.

 

[Wamu]

Muthafucking Cavs in three, bitches.

You unsober like me right now or something?

CELTICS IN TWO muther fukers!

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

so, say Smart is guarding Korver and Horford is guarding Love.....they wil lswitch and horford will guard Korver?

or if Theiss is guarding Love and Tatum is guarding JR---- Theiss will switch onto JR and Tatum on Love?

there isnt an easy asnwer

Love and Hill were running swtiches to perfection as well last round

its what makes cleeland tough to guard.

Can Love not pick up 2 quick fouls in Celts go down low to Horford with that intent?

Works both ways.