I have honestly never been so dialed in on the Pacers in over a decade...

[Heatles84]

If they played like they have the last 20 games they would -

Significantly weak competition over the last 20 games.

 

[Heatles84]

Yeah, if you get to play the Mavericks, Kings and Suns for a majority of your schedule, then sure.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

If that is Indy's philosophy...they will never win a championship. The best way for a small market team to be a true contender is a combination of draft and FA's.

Through the draft, they can add young assets. Hopefully at least one of them becomes a star and the rest become NBA players with value. They can then trade a couple of the young assets for a difference maker, or preferably, use the fact that they have a young star with good young players around him to attract a difference maker in FA.

Building a championship team strictly through the draft is virtually impossible.

Never said we should build it through the draft. My point is that the Pacers as an organization aren't going to put all their eggs in one basket. They aren't going to sell off the farm for the sole purpose of depleting payroll to chase that "maybe" free agent. But, at the same time this roster that has currently the 4th-lowest payroll in the NBA still has plenty of flexibility to improve its roster going forward. The fact that we're in position to make the playoffs in spite of this low payroll is an accomplishment in itself.

As far as winning championships is concerned - Unless you have LeBron, KD, or Curry, the chances are likely that you won't be winning any championships in this generation anyway. As an organization, you just have to control what you can control and hope these guys get old fast.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Significantly weak competition over the last 20 games.

We will see - I do think the Lakers needs one good all star caliber to play, but it's quite possible for some of the now young ones to reach all star caliber by the start of next year.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Never said we should build it through the draft. My point is that the Pacers as an organization aren't going to put all their eggs in one basket.

They aren't going to sell off the farm for the sole purpose of depleting payroll to chase that "maybe" free agent. But, at the same time this roster that has currently the 4th-lowest payroll in the NBA still has plenty of flexibility to improve its roster going forward. The fact that we're in position to make the playoffs in spite of this low payroll is an accomplishment in itself.

As far as winning championships is concerned - Unless you have LeBron, KD, or Curry, the chances are likely that you won't be winning any championships in this generation anyway. As an organization, you just have to control what you can control and hope these guys get old fast.

To your first statement - No team as an organization has ever done that - although it does seem like most of their eggs was invested in Paul George - Isn't that why you were so teed off about him leaving?

To the second one - I don't know of any team that has sold off the farm. If you are referring to the Lakers, they have made some changes, but they have hardly sold off the farm. They gained tremendous flexibility by trading Russell, for Mozgov and got back the pick that brought back Kuzma - one Hell of a player. They traded Clarkson and Lance for Thomas - A free agent. I liked Clarkson and I liked Nance or whatever his name is, but neither was the farm as you put it. The Lakers still have Randle, Lonzo Ball, and Kuzma, Josh Hart, Caruso, Ingram. Off hand, the farm looks pretty good to me.

 

[tlance]

Never said we should build it through the draft. My point is that the Pacers as an organization aren't going to put all their eggs in one basket. They aren't going to sell off the farm for the sole purpose of depleting payroll to chase that "maybe" free agent. But, at the same time this roster that has currently the 4th-lowest payroll in the NBA still has plenty of flexibility to improve its roster going forward. The fact that we're in position to make the playoffs in spite of this low payroll is an accomplishment in itself.

As far as winning championships is concerned - Unless you have LeBron, KD, or Curry, the chances are likely that you won't be winning any championships in this generation anyway. As an organization, you just have to control what you can control and hope these guys get old fast.

That is where I disagree.

Because, the next generation of superstars will be ready to take the mantle when the 3 you mentioned step down. The 6ers may have been the laughing stock of the league for years, but they put themselves in position to possibly contend in the future by drafting multiple players with legit superstar talent.

The Pacers are on the outside looking in now, and they will still be in more or less the same spot in 5 years because they aren't going to attract that superstar player needed to really contend. They may or may not be marginally better, but about the best case for you to hope for is what the Raptors and Wizards are doing now. Maybe you are good with that, but I would rather see my team aim higher and fail.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Significantly weak competition over the last 20 games.

Especially tonights opponent

 

[Heatles84]

Especially tonights opponent

Yup. We played like shit. We're not a good team either, just 2 games over .500.

 

[Heatles84]

So Jordan Clarkson's a bitch.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

That is where I disagree.

Because, the next generation of superstars will be ready to take the mantle when the 3 you mentioned step down. The 6ers may have been the laughing stock of the league for years, but they put themselves in position to possibly contend in the future by drafting multiple players with legit superstar talent.

The Pacers are on the outside looking in now, and they will still be in more or less the same spot in 5 years because they aren't going to attract that superstar player needed to really contend. They may or may not be marginally better, but about the best case for you to hope for is what the Raptors and Wizards are doing now. Maybe you are good with that, but I would rather see my team aim higher and fail.

So who's going to be the next wave of superstars? KD and Curry are so dominant in large part because they joined forces. LeBron is LeBron and is a once-in-a-generation type player. Frankly, there might not ever be another LeBron James. Teams in tank mode for that "maybe" draft prize are far more likely to land the next Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor than they are to land the next LeBron.

Making the playoffs in spite of having the 4th-lowest payroll in the NBA isn't a bad spot to be in, and the Pacers as an organization shouldn't have to apologize for it. The opportunity to fill in the cracks will be there as they see fit. The 2018 FA class is going to be a weak one beyond LeBron and Paul George (and obviously he ain't coming back). But 2019 will offer some interesting names on the market, namely Kemba Walker, Kawhi Leonard, Khris Middleton, and Terry Rozier assuming he don't agree to an extension.

 

[tlance]

So who's going to be the next wave of superstars? KD and Curry are so dominant in large part because they joined forces. LeBron is LeBron and is a once-in-a-generation type player. Frankly, there might not ever be another LeBron James. Teams in tank mode for that "maybe" draft prize are far more likely to land the next Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor than they are to land the next LeBron.

Making the playoffs in spite of having the 4th-lowest payroll in the NBA isn't a bad spot to be in, and the Pacers as an organization shouldn't have to apologize for it. The opportunity to fill in the cracks will be there as they see fit. The 2018 FA class is going to be a weak one beyond LeBron and Paul George (and obviously he ain't coming back). But 2019 will offer some interesting names on the market, namely Kemba Walker, Kawhi Leonard, Khris Middleton, and Terry Rozier assuming he don't agree to an extension.

You are right that tanking guarantees nothing.

But give me lousy teams that net Simmons and Embiid any day, no matter how long it takes. I know Wall, Beal and Porter aren't good enough. The Wizards are a perennial 2nd round playoff team and almost surely will be until they blow it up. It is fun while they are ascending, but pretty boring once they have plateaued, which the Wizards have. The Pacers are currently ascending, so I get your optimism, but they do have a ceiling.

Who are the next wave? Maybe Anthony Davis, Giannis, KAT, Or maybe a couple guys not even in the league yet.

What I do know for fact is that teams built around very good, not great players like Oladipo, Wall, and Kemba Walker sometimes come close, but they never win because there is somebody out there thinking bigger. AD and Giannis almost certainly aren't enough to win on their own, but pair them with another star and some quality role players and maybe.

As for Cousins? I have yet to find evidence that he actually helps the teams he plays for. The Pelicans seem legitimately better without him. Don't think he and Davis are the right pairing. It is probably more about fit there.

 

[trojanfan12]

So who's going to be the next wave of superstars? KD and Curry are so dominant in large part because they joined forces. LeBron is LeBron and is a once-in-a-generation type player. Frankly, there might not ever be another LeBron James. Teams in tank mode for that "maybe" draft prize are far more likely to land the next Jabari Parker or Jahlil Okafor than they are to land the next LeBron.

Making the playoffs in spite of having the 4th-lowest payroll in the NBA isn't a bad spot to be in, and the Pacers as an organization shouldn't have to apologize for it. The opportunity to fill in the cracks will be there as they see fit. The 2018 FA class is going to be a weak one beyond LeBron and Paul George (and obviously he ain't coming back). But 2019 will offer some interesting names on the market, namely Kemba Walker, Kawhi Leonard, Khris Middleton, and Terry Rozier assuming he don't agree to an extension.

Here's the problem. In the NBA you want to either be really good or really bad. Really good means that you are a contender. Really bad means that you have the chance to land a difference maker in the draft.

The problem for your Pacers is that they are neither. They are just a good, solid team. That puts them in NBA purgatory. They can't get a high enough draft pick to land a difference maker and they don't have the star they need to land another star. Having that low payroll means cap space, but that cap space doesn't do you much good if you can't get a difference maker with it.

As much as I hated the losing that the Lakers have done over the past few years, it has netted them a good young core that can possibly attract a couple of top FA's over the next couple of off-seasons to get them back to contender status.

 

[tlance]

Here's the problem. In the NBA you want to either be really good or really bad. Really good means that you are a contender. Really bad means that you have the chance to land a difference maker in the draft.

The problem for your Pacers is that they are neither. They are just a good, solid team. That puts them in NBA purgatory. They can't get a high enough draft pick to land a difference maker and they don't have the star they need to land another star. Having that low payroll means cap space, but that cap space doesn't do you much good if you can't get a difference maker with it.

As much as I hated the losing that the Lakers have done over the past few years, it has netted them a good young core that can possibly attract a couple of top FA's over the next couple of off-seasons to get them back to contender status.

Exactly.

You end up using that cap space to overpay quality role players like JJ Reddick.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

You are right that tanking guarantees nothing.

But give me lousy teams that net Simmons and Embiid any day, no matter how long it takes. I know Wall, Beal and Porter aren't good enough. The Wizards are a perennial 2nd round playoff team and almost surely will be until they blow it up. It is fun while they are ascending, but pretty boring once they have plateaued, which the Wizards have. The Pacers are currently ascending, so I get your optimism, but they do have a ceiling.

Who are the next wave? Maybe Anthony Davis, Giannis, KAT, Or maybe a couple guys not even in the league yet.

What I do know for fact is that teams built around very good, not great players like Oladipo, Wall, and Kemba Walker sometimes come close, but they never win because there is somebody out there thinking bigger. AD and Giannis almost certainly aren't enough to win on their own, but pair them with another star and some quality role players and maybe.

As for Cousins? I have yet to find evidence that he actually helps the teams he plays for. The Pelicans seem legitimately better without him. Don't think he and Davis are the right pairing. It is probably more about fit there.

I wouldn't want any of my teams to go through that five-year period the Sixers went though, and the only reason they went though it was because they kept failing with their draft choices - Nerlens Noel, Michael Carter-Williams, and Jahlil Okfor. They happened to luck out on two of their picks in five years. TWO. You can only brag on that to a certain extent.

Not every hotshot prospect should be treated as a LeBron James-level franchise maker. In fact, none of them actually should. The Sixers will have no shortage of talent, but there's no guarantee that everything is going to come together for them or that their success will even be linear. Simmons can't shoot, and Embiid is an undisciplined goon that's very turnover prone for a big man, and in spite of his lack of NBA experience he's already going to turn 24 next week. And lord only knows what's going to happen with Fultz...

 

[tlance]

I wouldn't want any of my teams to go through that five-year period the Sixers went though, and the only reason they went though it was because they kept failing with their draft choices - Nerlens Noel, Michael Carter-Williams, and Jahlil Okfor. They happened to luck out on two of their picks in five years. TWO. You can only brag on that to a certain extent.

Not every hotshot prospect should be treated as a LeBron James-level franchise maker. In fact, none of them actually should. The Sixers will have no shortage of talent, but there's no guarantee that everything is going to come together for them or that their success will even be linear. Simmons can't shoot, and Embiid is an undisciplined goon that's very turnover prone for a big man, and in spite of his lack of NBA experience he's already going to turn 24 next week. And lord only knows what's going to happen with Fultz...

They failed on their draft picks because they swing for fences looking for superstar talent. When they missed, hey moved on quickly.

While there are no guarantees, they have a legit shot to win rings in the future. The Pacers don't. The process was needed for the 6ers to get to this point. Good players get you to 45 wins. Superstars get you to contender status. 6ers knew that, and they waited patiently to get what they needed.

 

[trojanfan12]

They failed on their draft picks because they swing for fences looking for superstar talent. When they missed, hey moved on quickly.

While there are no guarantees, they have a legit shot to win rings in the future. The Pacers don't. The process was needed for the 6ers to get to this point. Good players get you to 45 wins. Superstars get you to contender status. 6ers knew that, and they waited patiently to get what they needed.

100% spot on. If a team and it's fans are happy being perennial 4-8 seeds, making the playoffs every year, but never competing for a title...that's fine.

Personally, I'm glad the Lakers have gone/are going through what they are. Aside from the fact that they are heading in the right direction to be a contender again, it's also been a lot of fun watching the kids learn.

 

[SJ76]

Pacers thread again huh

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Pacers thread again huh

Last I checked they are part of the National Basketball Association, otherwise known as the NBA.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Last I checked they are part of the National Basketball Association, otherwise known as the NBA.

Barely.

 

[SJ76]

Last I checked they are part of the National Basketball Association, otherwise known as the NBA.

Interesting. I guess we all learn something new every day