Will AA make a move?

[johnson]

AA is surely sitting in his office in pleasant shock that the team is for once during his tenure remotely relevant. He probably considers their current 4th place status being only a few games out of first the equivalent of winning the WS. But to make the playoffs, we all know this roster isn't going to do it.

The rotation is a joke. They have TWO pitchers worthy of being on a MLB team: Buehrle and Estrada.
Dickey - Love R.A, but he's been atrocious this year. He's the one guy that doesn't get run support, but he's still be really bad.
Hutchinson - He has to be the worst 8-2 pitcher in MLB History. He has to be getting the most run support in the league. If he had the Seattle offense behind him he'd be 2-12.
Boyd - He was their last #5 and he's been exclusively awful. He actually gave up 7 runs last start without recording an out.

They need to pull the trigger if they can on Hamels. Rumors were he'd consider waiving his NTC to come to Toronto a little while ago. Any other pitchers you think they should target??

 

[TKOSpikes]

It's a shame that Hamels won't go to Toronto if that's the case. The Phillies really are the perfect fit.

Norris, Hoffman, Castro and Pompey for Hamels, Papelbon and Revere.

Cueto would be expensive and a rental. Same with Samardzija.

Otherwise, they can look at SD and try and swing Cashner, Benoit and Veneble or something like that.

 

[Blitzville]

No one is running away with the AL East so no reason to panic or bring out the Fire Gibbons / AA comments. Jays are doing a decent job but it Edwin and Jose have not been very clutch . If not for Colabello, Valencia, Pillar Jays would be a lot worse off. And you have to give credit to coaches and management for playing these guys. Travis and Smoak too. THe problem has been the big stars - Dickey, Jose, Edwin, Hutchinson when he is on the road, all sucking it up. Buerhle started off awful now is turning it on. Losing Stroman was a big loss. Of course easy to make excuses but easier still to just blame management... how about blaming the players for underachieving. Reyes should have more than 4 home runs.

 

[johnson]

I disagree a lot of players are underachieving, esp on the offense. The following guys are having career years or performing well beyond expectations so far: Colabello, Donaldson, Travis, Pillar, Valencia. Then you have EE, Joey Bats and Russell Martin who are doing about what should be expected of them. That's pretty much an entire lineup.

The rotation has been a problem for like 7 years. AA still has not fixed it. Only Mark Buerhle has been great. Dickey, Hutchinson, Boyd, Redmond, Copeland, Redmond, Boyd and probably a few others they've tried to use as miracle patches in their rotation have been AWFUL.

I will concede you made a good point about the coaches and perhaps my Fire Gibbons comments need another look, but no way on AA. He's been a miserable failure since he took over and if we see his 7th straight year without playoffs how can anyone argue he deserves an 8th?

 

[TKOSpikes]

Johnson. What is it with you and GM's?

AA got JOSH DONALDSON FOR BRETT LAWRIE and KENDALL GRAVEMAN and a prospect. That's probably the best trade in thr majors in the last five years.

You only see the bad. Never the good.

I agree the Jays need an arm; a front line starter, but NOT FOR A RENTAL!

I think they should (and I bet are), dangle Pompey and Hoffman and maybe Castro for an arm they can trust. Norris, I wouldn't deal unless it was for someone under control next year and/or year after

Heard a lot of Edwin to the Cards talk last week. That makes sense...we'll see.

 

[johnson]

TKO: Getting Donaldson is a good move, but you have to judge AA by his full resume. This is a guy that has missed the playoffs all 7 years he's been here and the reason, by now, is obvious: THEIR ROTATION. He completely IGNORED it this off-season (like he has 6 out of the 7 years he's been here) and it's been awful as expected, but the moron probably scratches his head daily wondering why the pitching sucks.

I like Donaldson, but their offense would be fine this year without him.

There are GMs I am a big fan of (Steve Keim in AZ). I'm just a fan of a lot teams run by incompetent guys.

 

[Blitzville]

How many mediocre pitchers have we made look AS quality, of late? Considering this team`s lived by the offensive sword, this is very worrying. Bautista and Encarnacion have both had less than stellar seasons (even with Jose`s OBP). But that would be excusable if we had even the semblance of decent pitching. AA did this. It was he who compiled the roster, no-one else!I'm not sure it's time to fire him yet but his seat is warming up.

The game Sunday against Kansas City was a microcosm of the Jays season. Explosive offense that can score in chunks then look feeble. Poor starting pitching and a bullpen that is prone to cough up leads, especially after the offense bails out the ineffective starter. Toss in Reyes' errors that always seem to come back and haunt them. That's the Jays.

 

[johnson]

I don't think the Jays have made anyone look All-Star quality on their rotation. They've certainly done a great job masking how terrible they are though. Hutchinson would be 2-10 in Seattle or Philly and probably in the minors. Buehrle is the one silver lining...he's been underappreciated since he got here. The guy is reliable and can still pitch at a high level after 15 years in the MLB.

It's a seller's market and that means only the most savvy GMs are going to land the big pieces. That's never been AA so I don't expect that to change now. It will be business as usual (in Toronto, that means sticking with the status quo at the deadline)

 

[TKOSpikes]

Maybe they're better off staying in the NL Central, instead of the Phillies deal I proposed.

Go to the Reds, iffer Hoffman, Norris, Pompey, Castro and Navarro (and maybe a pick or two?), for Cueto, Bruce and Chapman.

Then go to the Cardinals and offer Edwin for Lynn or a prospect. Smoak at first and a combo at DH is good enough. Plus, that gives the option to DH Reyes some days.

 

[johnson]

TKO: I think both those offers are fantastic. While the players sent over to CIN are full of potential, the haul in return is exactly what the Jays need and they do need to go for it now. Reds would have to consider it, esp considering (I think) Chapman is not under contract after this year.

The Cardinals trade I was skeptical of just because I wasn't sure SL would part with Lynn, but they really should. EE would be a massive upgrade for them and SL has five studs on their rotation, so they could live with parting with one.

MIL are sellers and Mike Fiers would be a good guy to add if they could. I wouldn't give up anything major for him, but he'd be a solid upgrade in the rotation.

 

[Blitzville]

I may in the minority but I do not want the Jays to trade any top prospects for a rental guy like Cueto. They should have learned from TB how valuable homegrown pitching is. Id like to see some bullpen help and a consistent starter, nothing that is going to break the bank getting. ie Haren, Fiers, Leake...

They have their entire offense back next year and no Buehrle and Dickey clears up about 35 million. That can go a long way.

 

[johnson]

I don't know how AA can possibly not try to make some crazy moves here. I know Toronto is a horribly run organization that embraces failure and rewards it half the time, but AA has to have reached the breaking point even with that low standard. How is he not fired if they miss the post-season this year? I know he's made it his tradition to sit around and do nothing at the deadline, but this year would seem to have to be an exception to save his job.

 

[TKOSpikes]

I may in the minority but I do not want the Jays to trade any top prospects for a rental guy like Cueto. They should have learned from TB how valuable homegrown pitching is. Id like to see some bullpen help and a consistent starter, nothing that is going to break the bank getting. ie Haren, Fiers, Leake...

They have their entire offense back next year and no Buehrle and Dickey clears up about 35 million. That can go a long way.

Norris walking four a game in Triple-A. Pompey is not good defensively. Losing them will not hurt the Jays future at all.

Johnson. ...Chapman has one more year if control after this year. Bruce has a few. Reds probably wouldn't go for it.

And Lynn is locked in for a few more years... Cards probably don't even think about it. A prospect maybe though. They have some nice arms that could easily replace Norris/Hoffman.

 

[johnson]

Yeah, I agree. Pompey and Norris are completely expendable if it helps bring in Cueto, Champan, etc.

People point to TB to show the value of homegrown pitching, but it's a bit unfair. You point to the smartest and most effective organizations for this. That's not Toronto and it's not like 25 other teams. Good for TB, but Jays have the best offense in baseball and need to make a move now.

They've banked on their homegrown talent for pitching just about a decade and it's been a miserable failure. Their only two reliable pitchers right now are Buehrle and Estrada, who didn't come through their system. Remember how great Kyle Drabek, Ricky Romero, and other flops were supposed to be? If someone thinks highly of Norris or Pompey, take advantage.

 

[TKOSpikes]

Tulo? Didn't see that one coming.

 

[johnson]

Tulo was a shocker. Love the move generally, but it didn't exactly address their obvious needs.

Price, on the other hand, is exactly what they need. They'd have no reason to debate who to toss out there in a one-game playoff anymore.

I'm still skeptical. Their bullpen is bad and is showing no signs of improvement. With Price, they should get less work though.

Rotation would appear to be going forward: Price, Buehrle, Dickey, Estrada, and ?. Aaron Sanchez has looked good in his two brief appearances and was arguably their best starter before his injury. Hutchinson is awful, but his 9-2 record may make it hard to boot him...the team seems extra inspired to murder the ball when he's out there.

 

[TKOSpikes]

Hutch won't get booted. They're working on his change up, he'll get better with less pressure.

And Tulo absolutely fills a need. A much better defensive SS and hitter, with a longer contract and two years younger. Hawkins, say what you will brings a much needed vet in the pen. With Hendriks and Schultz and Sanchez and Osuna, with Loupe and Cecil for LHP, this is a much more stable pen.

Jays are set up now. No excuses, just have to play now.

 

[johnson]

Tulo is definitely an upgrade and great going forward, but if that was their only move, they would not have a chance. That's all I meant by saying they didn't address an obvious, or pressing, need.

Fingers crossed they can land Gallardo. Price, Gallardo, Buehrle, Dickey, Estrada. Sounds good to me.

Let's see how Hutch does today. His spot may be on the line!

 

[TKOSpikes]

Another great add. Bullpen deepens with the addition of Mark Lowe from Seattle.

 

[TKOSpikes]

And now Revere!

I think AA has done really well.