What About the Defense??

[BigKen]

After giving up 41 points in the Super Bowl to the Philadelphia Eagles, the Patriots defense has been the topic of concern nand conversation. Everyone was expecting to see some serious wheeling and dealing for the name players available in the draft and possibly a lot of free agent action. Cornerback, Edge Rusher, Defensive End, Linebacker.....everyone seemed to see a horrendous weakness in the Patriots' defense. Free Agency and the Draft have passed. Belichick and the Patriots' Brain Trust apparently don't seem anywhere as worried as the fans or the Boston media.

Looking at the roster, there certainly appears to be a significant number of players and even with the losses in free agency and retirement, it doesn't appear to be horribly weak. By position.....the candidates for the New England Patriots 2018 Defense:

Gilmore, Stephon
CB
6-0
205
Jones, Cyrus
CB
5-10
200
Lewis, Ryan
CB
6-0
200
Wiltz, Jomal
CB
5-10
180
Crossen, Keion
CB
5-10
180
Dawson, Duke
CB
5-10
202
Jones, Jonathan
CB
5-10
190
McCourty, Jason
CB
5-11
195
Rowe, Eric
CB
6-1
205
Travis, Damarius
CB/S
6-2
215


Ebner, Nate
S
6-0
220
Harmon, Duron
S
6-1
205
Jones, David
S
6-3
210
King, Brandon
S
6-2
220
McCourty, Devin
S
5-10
195
Richards, Jordan
S
5-11
210


Clayborn, Adrian
DE
6-3
280
Flowers, Trey
DE
6-2
265
Grissom, Geneo
DE
6-4
265
Lee, Eric
DE
6-3
260
Rivers, Derek
DE
6-5
250
Wise, Jr., Deatrich
DE
6-5
271


Brown, Malcom
DT
6-2
320
Butler, Adam
DT
6-5
300
Davis, Keionta
DT
6-4
260
Guy, Lawrence
DL
6-4
305
Shelton, Danny
DT
6-2
335
Valentine, Vincent
DT
6-3
320


Bentley, Ja'Whaun
ILB
6-2
260
Sam, Christian
ILB
6-2
244
Langi, Harvey
ILB
6-2
252
Roberts, Elandon
ILB
6-0
235
Van Noy, Kyle
ILB
6-3
243

Flowers, Marquis
OLB
6-3
250
Grigsby, Nicholas
OLB
6-2
230
Hightower, Dont'a
OLB
6-3
265

 

[sharkymcwrath]

Possible addition by subtraction with Matt Patricia now in Detroit? Would love to see the Pats go back to a more aggressive style of defense. Gonna be interesting to see what the difference is now with Matt gone.

 

[BigKen]

The reason I posted the most up to date roster is that too often we start listening to the talking heads on TV or the radio and let them influence 'our' opinions. I watched Sunday Sports and deleted it after 15 minutes. I got sick and tired of listening to Mike Felger screech over other people and just shit all over the patriots' draft. The other two guys (Bert Breer and Phil Perry) looked like they were ready to walk off. He had two hours on that program and will have 4 hours from 2-6 on 98.5 the SportsHub radio today. Needless to say, I won't tune in. If he shows up on any show tonight, I'm switching.

The only position on defense that appears light, is linebacker. But the Pats utilize their DE in a different way that most teams. Often times, the Pats switch to 3-4 and the OLBs are actually DE. Sometimes when they're in the 4-3 they have
4 DT, 2 DE and ILB.

I'm still trying to figure who I keep.

 

[cdumler7]

Just looking at the roster I would say they look like an average group. They won't be elite by any means but can do plenty with that explosive offense to win lots of games and compete for a Super Bowl.

 

[Raw_Bee808]

I would've liked to have seen them draft a pass rusher or a linebacker with speed that can cover RBs out of the backfield, but I guess Belichick figures with the some guys coming back healthy this year (Rivers, Valentine) and adding Clayborn that things will improve in that area. Also corner is still a concern as well, IMO. Maybe with Patricia gone, Belichick will take a more hands-on approach to coaching and calling the defense and we'll see some changes because I don't know about you guys but I'm tired of watching them give up third and longs.

Hopefully with Shelton in the middle they will be able to stop the run too, which they couldn't do very well last year and let's all pray that they can get some semblance of a pass rush.

 

[BigKen]

Patricia believed in a "no contact" cornerback at the line of scrimmage. He preferred his CBs to play about 2-3 yards back from the WR. This often led to illegal contact or holding because the CB would reach out to slow down the receiver as they cut and ran free. Too often our DBs were chasing rather than engaging. I'd like to see the DBs right in front of the WRs and pop them hard as possible. Take three or four seconds out of the pass route and make the OL deal with our pass rushers for 6-7 seconds rather than 3. Hit the WRs hard enough, often enough and even the best of the best want to spend much more time on the sideline getting a breather and Gatorade.

 

[cdumler7]

Patricia believed in a "no contact" cornerback at the line of scrimmage. He preferred his CBs to play about 2-3 yards back from the WR. This often led to illegal contact or holding because the CB would reach out to slow down the receiver as they cut and ran free. Too often our DBs were chasing rather than engaging. I'd like to see the DBs right in front of the WRs and pop them hard as possible. Take three or four seconds out of the pass route and make the OL deal with our pass rushers for 6-7 seconds rather than 3. Hit the WRs hard enough, often enough and even the best of the best want to spend much more time on the sideline getting a breather and Gatorade.

Having watched the Patriots for a few years now it seems like they play that style of defense with backing off a bit if they don't trust their pass rush to get home in a hurry. Playing the close up press man coverage is great when you have a great pass rush that can make a QB uncomfortable but when you can't trust your pass rush then you have to back off your CB's to make sure plays stay in front of you.

 

[Racer8825]

Possible addition by subtraction with Matt Patricia now in Detroit? Would love to see the Pats go back to a more aggressive style of defense. Gonna be interesting to see what the difference is now with Matt gone.

I think we're gonna see just how much they miss Matt Patricia. I don't see that defense being as formidable as it has been in years past under The Beard. Teams are going to exploit their weakness (primarily the secondary). I just don't think their defense will do enough to keep games close. I also believe Brady will really show his age this season.

 

[BigKen]

I think we're gonna see just how much they miss Matt Patricia. I don't see that defense being as formidable as it has been in years past under The Beard. Teams are going to exploit their weakness (primarily the secondary). I just don't think their defense will do enough to keep games close. I also believe Brady will really show his age this season.

Go back to the Seahawks board...............................

 

[Raw_Bee808]

I think we're gonna see just how much they miss Matt Patricia. I don't see that defense being as formidable as it has been in years past under The Beard. Teams are going to exploit their weakness (primarily the secondary). I just don't think their defense will do enough to keep games close. I also believe Brady will really show his age this season.

Hot take.

 

[Racer8825]

Hot take.

Let's see how their new DC does with pretty much the same talent.

 

[BigKen]

Let's see how their new DC does with pretty much the same talent.

The Patriots will not name anyone as the Defensive Coordinator in 2018. Belichick will be the DC. He will have 5-6 assistants.

 

[Racer8825]

The Patriots will not name anyone as the Defensive Coordinator in 2018. Belichick will be the DC. He will have 5-6 assistants.

I guess the Hoodie does it all up in Foxboro huh?

 

[Raw_Bee808]

Let's see how their new DC does with pretty much the same talent.

They won't offically name anyone as DC this season. Brian Flores is supposed to be the one calling the defense on gamedays but it will essentially be Belichick coordinating the defense this year and I hope your not going to tell me that Patricia is a better DC than Belichick.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

They won't offically name anyone as DC this season. Brian Flores is supposed to be the one calling the defense on gamedays but it will essentially be Belichick coordinating the defense this year and I hope your not going to tell me that Patricia is a better DC than Belichick.

Yeah, maybe when he has 7 rings, 10 trips to the big game and a game plan in the HOF...to set the bar.



And, BB is still raising the bar.

 

[Southieinnc]

Hot take.

Welcome to the Hoop

 

[BigKen]

I started this thread way back in April because I was concerned about a lot of players and things that seemed to be happening. I was listening to a discussion last night and it occurred to me what's been happening...............bear with me.

The Patriots started the season 1-2. Miserable losses against the Jags and worse, Detroit. Then things changed just a little and the Pats ran off 6 in a row. They were not dominant, but were playing better until they just cramped up in Tennessee. The defense was a bit different against the Jets, but really came on against the Vikings.

Here's what seems to happen year in and year out..........The Patriots spend the preseason trying to get as many versitile players as possible. The season starts and it's like no one can settle into what their role is supposed to be. Sometimes it doesn't matter and the offense can make up for the defensive problems. 2018 showed us that not having a full cupboard of offensive weapons meant that the defense had to play up and in several instances, they just couldn't.

Now here's where things are starting to get just a bit weird. Other teams are starting to get hurt and players are dropping with injuries. The Patriots enter December getting back players that were injured and the versitileplayers are all starting to perform in their versitile roles. The new Defensive Coordinator has been given the green light to use his defense any way he sees fit. Ever seen an NFL defense play with 9 guys on the line and all of them switching positions when the offense comes to the line and then drop three back and then switch and drop 5 back and then bring everyone up ? The offense has no idea where the pass rush is coming and the Patriots on several plays took everyone away from the left side of the ball and the Vikings refused call a time out and called an audible just as the Patriots went to a 5 man front and blew up the quick pass to the right side.

I think the game plan was to flex as many guys as possible against the Vikings to see how it would work and if the offense would expose itself. Belichick may say he plays one game at a time, but I thinkithis game was a practice game for the Pittsburgh Steelers. The Steelers have a much more powerful offense that the Vikes but they are similar and Flores and BB needed to see if having 7 guys upright at the line would cause the offense to change the way it normally operated. The only time the Patriots went to a typical zone was at the end of the first half and it cost them because the Vikings shredded them for an easy TD. The Patriots didn't play that way for the rest of the game and the Vikings only shot at the end zone was intercepted.

I wonder if BB and Flores will do it against the Dolphins??

 

[Southieinnc]

"The Patriots came into their matchup with the Vikings armed with perhaps their most creative defensive game plan of the season, and it confounded Cousins. Van Noy could sense it.

"Yeah," Van Noy said. "You could tell he was having a tough time reading what we were doing."

What exactly did the Patriots do to confound a quarterback whose brains helped him sign a record-setting contract this offseason? They wandered about in the box, not allowing Cousins to figure out what was coming. It was an amorphous front."

Patriots were masters of disguise on defense

 

[nefansince75]

That gimmicky defense only works in situations. The way to defeat it is to not read it and run your play. There's a good chance the defense will be out of position for whatever play is called.

I'm not criticizing at all. The best plays, offense and defense, are the ones that can't be anticipated and the fix is to stop anticipating and playing straight up. It means a defense can't "cheat" and must hold edges and cover the box. It also requires more man to man pass coverage and a decent pass rush. For offense it requires blockers to win and recievers to get open.

 

[BigKen]

I'm not criticizing at all. The best plays, offense and defense, are the ones that can't be anticipated and the fix is to stop anticipating and playing straight up. It means a defense can't "cheat" and must hold edges and cover the box. It also requires more man to man pass coverage and a decent pass rush. For offense it requires blockers to win and recievers to get open.

The biggest problem is that QBs in the NFL tend to have anal leaks when they come up under center and the world has changed. No QB who has spent an entire week watching the defense of the team that they will play, is ever totally prepared for a wrinkle. They see that a normal nickel set is three down, threLBs and 5 DBs. The Dime is four down, an extra up LB on the edge and 6 DB. No way are they prepared for 9 on the line and they keep flexing different players in and out and drop back an entire side of the defense. If you try to run the called play and don't audible the protection, you just might need an excavator to dig you QB out of the grass or turf.

You know that the Dolphins will spend an inordinate amoutof time trying to figure out a way to audible a play that will get by the flexing defense. My guess is that Flores and BB will have something totally different and the Dolphins will struggle because it won't be that flex. I do like the upright 6. QB knows that the D is man to man but he also knows that he will have no more than 2.5 seconds to drop and throw or he'll be in serious trouble.