POLL The Lakers, Spurs, Leonard, DeRozan, and the idiot Raptors

[Mecca]

He doesn't look for his own shot as a distributing PG. Maybe that changes with Lebron in the fold and a year under his belt.

I think it will.

Lebron, Lance and Rondo will take some of the play making pressure off of him.

I don't think he will ever be a big scorer.

But, he could raise his average a bit every Season ala Mike Conley.

I see him somewhere around Conley and Bledsoe's current career scoring numbers.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yes.....

And seriously, this whole debate is annoying the piss out of me.

I am a Lonzo fan.

Been a fan before he played his first game in Westwood.

I'm done because it's feeling too anti-Lonzo for my Bruins bias.

Yeah, I think that, because of Lavar's mouth, some folks are all but actively hoping that he fails.

If Lavar were out of the picture, folks would still bring up his shooting because it's bad and needs to be fixed.

But they'd also be talking about the things he does well and saying he needs to work on it, instead of acting like he's a guy who's been in the league for a few years and has a permanently broken shot that will never get better.

I think what happens from here is all up to him. If he really wants to fulfill his potential, he'll put in the work and do whatever he has to. If he doesn't want to do the work...he'll be a backup for someone other than the Lakers.[/QUOTE]

 

[trojanfan12]

The mid-range game and post game are mostly dead in the NBA.

The post game is largely gone, but not the mid range game. The current NBA champs were 8th in 3 pointers made and 17th in 3 pointers attempted, but 1st in percentage made.

They soften you up with the mid-range (and some in the paint), then knock you out with the 3.

Out of the top 10 in 3 pointers attempted, 6 didn't make the playoffs or were a low seed (Nets, Mavs, Bulls, Hawks, Nuggets and Heat).

To be fair, the remaining 4 advanced to at least the 2nd round of the playoffs and 1 (your Cavs) advanced to the finals. So that does back your point to a degree.

I'd also add that, while the post game is largely gone, points in the paint are not. They are just achieved in ways other than dumping it in the post to some 7 foot monster. lol

 

[trojanfan12]

The problem is that Lonzo Ball only shot 98 free throw attempts in college. That's a pretty small sample size. One hot/cold streak could really alter the percentage.

He only attempted 71 in the NBA, which is an even smaller sample size. So, wouldn't the same hold true regarding one hot/cold streak?

 

[trojanfan12]

From everything I have read, he blew up his entire shot. Drew Hanlen has broken down his shot completely and rebuilt it, at least according to Drew Hanlen.

Depending on how badly his shot was broken and how ingrained the new bad habits were. It's possible that he had to break his shot down entirely just to get him back to his original form.

If I recall correctly, his form in college was pretty good, which is why his struggles were more surprising for most folks than Lonzo's.

A lot of folks expected that Lonzo would struggle with his shot because his form was bad coming in. I don't remember the same concerns re: Fultz.

 

[flyerhawk]

He only attempted 71 in the NBA, which is an even smaller sample size. So, wouldn't the same hold true regarding one hot/cold streak?

Of course! I don't think that Lonzo is doomed to be a 50% FT shooter. It's a cause for concern though. I'm fairly certain you would agree with that.

Lakers, Celtics, and Sixers fans, among others, all have reasons to be excited about their young players. And as fans we tend to gloss over the problems and hand wave them away as being fixable. Which they are. But that doesn't mean they will be fixed. Plenty of young promising stars were never able to fix their and never became the players they could have been.

Ben Simmons may never develop and outside shot. Markelle Fultz may never get his confidence back. Lonzo Ball may never fix his shot. Brandon Ingram may never start eating hamburgers. Jayson Tatum may never get his physicality and aggression up. Jaylen Brown may never develop an effective perimeter shot. Who knows?

 

[shopson67]

He only attempted 71 in the NBA, which is an even smaller sample size. So, wouldn't the same hold true regarding one hot/cold streak?

Yep, 98 in 36 games is basically double his att/g in the NBA.

 

[shopson67]

Brandon Ingram may never start eating hamburgers.

The Real-Life Diet of Brandon Ingram, the NBA's Most Talented Beanpole

 

[flyerhawk]

The Real-Life Diet of Brandon Ingram, the NBA's Most Talented Beanpole

I was being facetious. I am certain the guy is doing everything he can to put on weight.

Some of you guys really feel the need to defend your boys from even the slightest of jabs.

 

[tlance]

Why the fixation on shooting and scoring for PGs? Lonzo was better than both across the board in every other category (other than MCW with steals).

Oh, and Lonzo shits all over Rozier.

The problem isn't that Lonzo doesn't score much. I would be absolutely fine with a PG scoring less than Lonzo if he didn't attemp many shots and was always looking to create for someone else.

The issue is terrible efficiency. When you shooter as poorly as Lonzo did in year 1, it absolutely takes value away from other things you do well.

It would be like having a PG who was a great passer/playmaker and averaged 10 assists, but also averaged 8 TO. How long do you think that guy is getting starter minutes if he doesn't improve?

Efficiency matters a lot. Lonzo can absolutely improve his shooting, and he absolutely needs to in order for his other skills (which are very impressive) to translate fully.

Any player who posts ridiculous bad efficiency numbers like that, you have to take their counting stats with a grain of salt.

 

[flyerhawk]

Any player who posts ridiculous bad efficiency numbers like that, you have to take their counting stats with a grain of salt.

This is a point a lot of fans ignore. Efficiency matters.

 

[Mecca]

Man, this guy just doesn't know how to say no comment...lol

You don't know they won't be able to rework his shot.

Thomas was also asked about Lonzo Ball. He didn’t play a lot with last year’s No. 2 pick, but Ball certainly left an impression. “Lonzo is a great kid,” Thomas said. “I don’t think they’re going to be able to fix his jump shot, but they can work with him and get it better than how it is right now. He’s a talented, talented young player that’s going to be special in this league because he has the tools to be special.”

 

[shopson67]

I was being facetious. I am certain the guy is doing everything he can to put on weight.

Some of you guys really feel the need to defend your boys from even the slightest of jabs.

Not being defensive, was just curious as I remembered reports of him eating 5000 calories a day his rookie year or something ridiculous like that.

 

[shopson67]

The problem isn't that Lonzo doesn't score much. I would be absolutely fine with a PG scoring less than Lonzo if he didn't attemp many shots and was always looking to create for someone else.

The issue is terrible efficiency. When you shooter as poorly as Lonzo did in year 1, it absolutely takes value away from other things you do well.

It would be like having a PG who was a great passer/playmaker and averaged 10 assists, but also averaged 8 TO. How long do you think that guy is getting starter minutes if he doesn't improve?

Efficiency matters a lot. Lonzo can absolutely improve his shooting, and he absolutely needs to in order for his other skills (which are very impressive) to translate fully.

Any player who posts ridiculous bad efficiency numbers like that, you have to take their counting stats with a grain of salt.

I disagree. The counting stats become MORE important as they are needed to offset his weakness to keep him on the floor. As I noted before, there were only a few players to average 7 reb and 7 assists last year, and two were "rookie" PGs (Ball and Simmons) mixed in with Lebron, Westbrook, and Dray.

 

[Inimical]

Of course! I don't think that Lonzo is doomed to be a 50% FT shooter. It's a cause for concern though. I'm fairly certain you would agree with that.

Lakers, Celtics, and Sixers fans, among others, all have reasons to be excited about their young players. And as fans we tend to gloss over the problems and hand wave them away as being fixable. Which they are. But that doesn't mean they will be fixed. Plenty of young promising stars were never able to fix their and never became the players they could have been.

Ben Simmons may never develop and outside shot. Markelle Fultz may never get his confidence back. Lonzo Ball may never fix his shot. Brandon Ingram may never start eating hamburgers. Jayson Tatum may never get his physicality and aggression up. Jaylen Brown may never develop an effective perimeter shot. Who knows?

 

[tlance]

I disagree. The counting stats become MORE important as they are needed to offset his weakness to keep him on the floor. As I noted before, there were only a few players to average 7 reb and 7 assists last year, and two were "rookie" PGs (Ball and Simmons) mixed in with Lebron, Westbrook, and Dray.

That is literally crazy.

Yes. The stats are needed to offset the horrid shooting.

But, in terms of overall production, they are about as valuable as a guard who shoots league average percentages and averages 5 boards and 5 assists.

You have to factor in every possession lost by Ball missing shots that the average player would make. That saps value and you aren't considering that.

To suggest that a player's stats are somehow MORE valuable because he is a horrendously inefficient shooter is not grounded in reality.

 

[trojanfan12]

Man, this guy just doesn't know how to say no comment...lol

You don't know they won't be able to rework his shot.

Thomas was also asked about Lonzo Ball. He didn’t play a lot with last year’s No. 2 pick, but Ball certainly left an impression. “Lonzo is a great kid,” Thomas said. “I don’t think they’re going to be able to fix his jump shot, but they can work with him and get it better than how it is right now. He’s a talented, talented young player that’s going to be special in this league because he has the tools to be special.”

I actually agree with him to a point.

Comparing for example, Fultz to Lonzo. Fultz's bad form seemed to be the result of trying to compensate for an injury and losing confidence. From what I remember, his form in college was pretty good. So, re-working his shot was likely more about getting him back to his previous form and possibly enhancing it a bit.

Lonzo's bad form is something he's done his whole life. So it will likely be a lot more difficult to re-work his shot. As IT pointed out, working with him to just improve his current shot (probably done by working on a quicker release) may be the best they can hope for. That's why I don't think he'll ever have a particularly good shot. But could develop a serviceable one.

 

[shopson67]

That is literally crazy.

Yes. The stats are needed to offset the horrid shooting.

But, in terms of overall production, they are about as valuable as a guard who shoots league average percentages and averages 5 boards and 5 assists.

You have to factor in every possession lost by Ball missing shots that the average player would make. That saps value and you aren't considering that.

To suggest that a player's stats are somehow MORE valuable because he is a horrendously inefficient shooter is not grounded in reality.

You're misquoting me. I'm saying that the non-shooting stats are more valuable to even out his overall value, to which you agree in the first line above. Those other stats were very strong; any shooting improvement will spike his value. Also, Ball doesn't attempt a lot of shots, so those percentages are minimized to a degree. Improvement will always be desired though.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The problem isn't that Lonzo doesn't score much. I would be absolutely fine with a PG scoring less than Lonzo if he didn't attemp many shots and was always looking to create for someone else.

The issue is terrible efficiency. When you shooter as poorly as Lonzo did in year 1, it absolutely takes value away from other things you do well.

It would be like having a PG who was a great passer/playmaker and averaged 10 assists, but also averaged 8 TO. How long do you think that guy is getting starter minutes if he doesn't improve?

Efficiency matters a lot. Lonzo can absolutely improve his shooting, and he absolutely needs to in order for his other skills (which are very impressive) to translate fully.

Any player who posts ridiculous bad efficiency numbers like that, you have to take their counting stats with a grain of salt.

my biggest issue with Lonzo is that he doesnt have any offensive game. He cant shoot and cant get to the rim. You GOTTA be able to do one or the other and hes terrible at both. He has good size that works in his favor defensively, but hes not fast, and hes not that athletic, and geting to the rim is a big problem for him- almost as much as his shooting is a problem for him.

When you do both of those things sub-par- the defense almost does not even have to account for you.

In Miami and Cleveland LeBron had all KINDs of spacing with elite bigs like Love and Bosh- and shooters that surrounded him that gave him oodles of room to operate with. In LA, what is going to prevent the defense from just totally keying on LeBron and packing the middle of the court?

 

[WiggyRuss]

You're misquoting me. I'm saying that the non-shooting stats are more valuable to even out his overall value, to which you agree in the first line above. Those other stats were very strong; any shooting improvement will spike his value. Also, Ball doesn't attempt a lot of shots, so those percentages are minimized to a degree. Improvement will always be desired though.

doesnt attempt a lot of shots he took almost 6 three's a game last year!?!?