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The 2017-18 Game-By-Game MVPs Discussion Thread

nuraman00

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I agree in general. I meant in comparison to Favors. I don't know why I said blocks. I really meant rebounds, blocks, etc. I meant he didn't do much other than score. I wanted to have his 15 and 5 be higher than Favors 15 and 11 because it was Crowder's first game, but I didn't think it was as much overall to the game as Favors.



Adjusted my above rankings. O'Neale's game was one of those, if you didn't watch the game, it was ehh statistically. He seemed to do a lot of off-the-ball stuff, especially defensive. So, yes, O'Neale should be higher than Ingles. I wonder how different my rankings would be if I watched every game... live. I would never trade my family time for it, but that would be fun.

As for Gobert, it was an average game statistically, but I did think he did more, including a 19 foot jumpshot that he usually doesn't even take. I would have put Crowder ahead originally if he didn't miss so many shots. I think Gobert did more than Crowder.

As for Ingles vs. Crowder... I value assists and shooting. I feel that Ingles was a spark, getting into the Spurs flow. He frustrated Pau Gasol a few times and did a good job against Ginobli at times.

Jerebko vs. Neto. I think it's 6's. 3 more missed shots is more important than 2 assists? I don't know. But since he did have 1 more turnover and 4 more fouls, I suppose the negative could outweigh the positive. So, I will defer to your assessment.


Impressive that someone like Ingles can frustrate Hall Of Famers in Pau and Ginobili.

That's an encouraging sign for future games in general.
 

MHSL82

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2017 MVP Per Game Played Averages

Donovan Mitchell: 7.5
Rudy Gobert: 7.03
Ricky Rubio: 6.11
Rodney Hood: 5.54
Derrick Favors: 5.35
Joe Ingles: 5.14
Jae Crowder: 3.5
Thabo Sefolosha: 2.89
Alec Burks: 2.31
Joe Johnson: 1.97
Royce O'Neale: 1.48
Jonas Jerebko: 1.43
Raul Neto: 1.09
Epke Udoh: 0.98
Tony Bradley: 0.5
Niang: 0.0
 

MHSL82

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Impressive that someone like Ingles can frustrate Hall Of Famers in Pau and Ginobili.

That's an encouraging sign for future games in general.

Lowe: What's real and what's not for the shocking Jazz

There's a bit on how he is using the defense's knowledge of his preference to pass on pick and rolls to exploit the defense overplaying the pass. Don't get me wrong, the preference was real, not a ruse, but he knows it and is adjusting lately. That might help... or be helped by his shooting percentage. He ran the point during the clutch comeback versus the Spurs, besting an aging Ginobli and Parker who are veteran players still playing well.
 

nuraman00

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2017 MVP Per Game Played Averages

Donovan Mitchell: 7.5
Rudy Gobert: 7.03
Ricky Rubio: 6.11
Rodney Hood: 5.54
Derrick Favors: 5.35
Joe Ingles: 5.14
Jae Crowder: 3.5
Thabo Sefolosha: 2.89
Alec Burks: 2.31
Joe Johnson: 1.97
Royce O'Neale: 1.48
Jonas Jerebko: 1.43
Raul Neto: 1.09
Epke Udoh: 0.98
Tony Bradley: 0.5
Niang: 0.0

How can someone have a rating higher than 7? Is it 7 points for MVP 1?
 

MHSL82

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How can someone have a rating higher than 7? Is it 7 points for MVP 1?

In the opening post, I describe the points. You get 10 points for MVP1 and nine points for MVP2. 7 for MVP3, 6 for HM4. 4 for HM5, 3 for HM6. 1 for HM1.
 

nuraman00

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Considering that neither team shot well, were the defenses just that good?

Mbah A Moute went 7-7 though.

For Mitchell, I'd say that 4-15 is not excessive in FGAs if this were the only game. But since this is a trend of him shooting poorly now, he has to find out how he can make more shots.

Or he has to find out how to get to the foul line more.

He did play 37 minutes, so again, if only looking at this game, 15 FGAs isn't excessive. Until one takes into account his recent play.

I think you also pointed out that they could have gone more to Favors and Gobert. So, this is what Mitchell could have done. He could have deferred some shots to them, since they were shooting well.

Why did they lose the lead?
 

MHSL82

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Considering that neither team shot well, were the defenses just that good?

Mbah A Moute went 7-7 though.

For Mitchell, I'd say that 4-15 is not excessive in FGAs if this were the only game. But since this is a trend of him shooting poorly now, he has to find out how he can make more shots.

Or he has to find out how to get to the foul line more.

He did play 37 minutes, so again, if only looking at this game, 15 FGAs isn't excessive. Until one takes into account his recent play.

I think you also pointed out that they could have gone more to Favors and Gobert. So, this is what Mitchell could have done. He could have deferred some shots to them, since they were shooting well.

Why did they lose the lead?

Turnovers. And not going to big players like Gobert of Favors when Houston went small.

Regarding the shooting: Number of attempts for Mitchell was not an issue. My comments were for Crowder. If you are going to take 15, you better be the star or making them and hopefully both.

9 out of the 15 attempts being three pointers for Mitchell? That may be a Mitchell non-aggressiveness issue, but if the system is giving you 9 good shots, take them. But make them. He wasn't making them. Past shots don't mean you won't make current or future shots, so I want him to be confident, but 1-9 can't be good when you were 5-6 otherwise on two point shots. And only 4 FTs this game an 1 the game before.
 

nuraman00

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In other words, Mitchell, don't shoot so many 3's, and get closer shots! You're doing good on those!

Ok, thanks for clearing up that the comment was for Crowder.

BTW, during the Tournament Of The Americas game in 2002, I thought it was funny that Andre Miller took more shots than his namesake, Reggie Miller.

Team USA finished in 6th place.
 

MHSL82

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Jazz vs. Kings - Box Score - March 3, 2018 - ESPN

1. MVP1: Gobert, 16 Points, 12 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 3 Blocks, 3 Steals, 6-10 Shooting, 1 TO.
2. MVP2: Mitchell, 27 Points, 5 Rebounds, 5 Assists, O Blocks, 0 Steals, 7-15 Shooting, 3 TOs.
3. HM3: Rubio, 10 Points, 8 Rebounds, 6 Assists, 4 Steals, 0 Blocks, 4-16, 3 TOs.
4. HM4: Favors, 15 Points, 8 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 0 Steals, 0 Blocks, 7-10 Shooting, 0 TOs.
5. HM5: Ingles, 8 Points, 3 Assists, 5 Rebounds, 1 Steal, 1 Block, OK Shooting, 2 TOs. Better shooting and more well-rounded than Crowder. Also, we have him do more for us anyway.
6. HM6:
Crowder, 14 Points, 1 Assist, 4 Rebounds, Poor shooting, 2 TOs. OK, he really cannot shoot 37-98. We need closer to 45-98 or 37-82. Hmm, maybe that's a bit much, but you know what I mean. He hasn't had a single good game shooting in Utah yet. Two 5-11's is the closest we've come. Maybe if he just doesn't have the 1-12 stretch from three he would be a 41.8% shooter?
7. HM7:
Jerebko, 8 Points, 6 Rebounds, OK shooting, 1 TO. Good contributions.

@nuraman00 , I need your help again.

Mitchell: 27 Points, 5 Rebounds, 5 Assists, O Blocks, 0 Steals, 7-15 Shooting, 3 TOs.
Gobert: 16 Points, 12 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 3 Blocks, 3 Steals, 6-10 Shooting, 1 TO

Mitchell: 8 missed shots, 3 negative from turnovers. But 11 more points. 3 more assists.
Gobert: 4 missed shots, 1 negative from turnovers. But 3 more blocks. 3 more steals. 6 fewer negative possessions.

And

Rubio: 10 Points, 8 Rebounds, 6 Assists, 4 Steals, 0 Blocks, 4-16, 3 TOs.
Favors: 15 Points, 8 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 0 Steals, 0 Blocks, 7-10 Shooting, 0 TOs.

Favors: 5 missed shots, 0 negatives from turnovers. 9 fewer negative possessions.
Rubio: 11 missed shots, 3 negatives from turnovers. But 5 more assists. 4 more steals.
 

nuraman00

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I'll come back to this.
 

nuraman00

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Jazz vs. Kings - Box Score - March 3, 2018 - ESPN

1. MVP1: Gobert/Mitchell
2. MVP2: Mitchell/Gobert
3. HM3: Rubio/Favors
4. HM4: Favors/Rubio
5. HM5: Ingles, 8 Points, 3 Assists, 5 Rebounds, 1 Steal, 1 Block, OK Shooting, 2 TOs. Better shooting and more well-rounded than Crowder. Also, we have him do more for us anyway.
6. HM6:
Crowder, 14 Points, 1 Assist, 4 Rebounds, Poor shooting, 2 TOs. OK, he really cannot shoot 37-98. We need closer to 45-98 or 37-82. Hmm, maybe that's a bit much, but you know what I mean. He hasn't had a single good game shooting in Utah yet. Two 5-11's is the closest we've come. Maybe if he just doesn't have the 1-12 stretch from three he would be a 41.8% shooter?
7. HM7:
Jerebko, 8 Points, 6 Rebounds, OK shooting, 1 TO. Good contributions.

@nuraman00 , I need your help again.

Mitchell: 27 Points, 5 Rebounds, 5 Assists, O Blocks, 0 Steals, 7-15 Shooting, 3 TOs.
Gobert: 16 Points, 12 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 3 Blocks, 3 Steals, 6-10 Shooting, 1 TO.

Mitchell: 8 missed shots, 3 negative from turnovers. But 11 more points. 3 more assists.
Gobert: 4 missed shots, 1 negative from turnovers. But 3 more blocks. 3 more steals. 6 fewer negative possessions.

And

Rubio: 10 Points, 8 Rebounds, 6 Assists, 4 Steals, 0 Blocks, 4-16, 3 TOs.
Favors: 15 Points, 8 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 0 Steals, 0 Blocks, 7-10 Shooting, 0 TOs.

Favors: 5 missed shots, 0 negatives from turnovers. 9 fewer negative possessions.
Rubio: 11 missed shots, 3 negatives from turnovers. But 5 more assists. 4 more steals.

Without knowing if the steals and blocks came during important times, let's do this:

1. Gobert (steals, blocks, 1 turnover)
2. Mitchell
3. Rubio (rebounds, steals)
4. Favors (0 turnovers but only played 30 minutes. He probably would have committed a turnover if he played another 3 - 4 minutes like the other starters).
 

nuraman00

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Thanks.

I was hoping you'd catch up on these.
 

MHSL82

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Thanks.

I was hoping you'd catch up on these.

Tomorrow or later tonight I will flesh them out, add up points, and answer the Minnesota Timberwolves. I don't half-ass my responses when you are genuinely asking me, but I have either not had the time or not had the energy to give it much thought. So I will answer it correctly, but later.
 

nuraman00

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Tomorrow or later tonight I will flesh them out, add up points, and answer the Minnesota Timberwolves. I don't half-ass my responses when you are genuinely asking me, but I have either not had the time or not had the energy to give it much thought. So I will answer it correctly, but later.

No problem. Thanks for explaining.

I can wait.

Maybe you can say "I'll come back to this later", like I do whenever you post a video that I can't watch at work, because the network blocks it?
 

MHSL82

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Regular Season Winners:

Most Reliable Player: Donovan Mitchell - Scored in the Top 7 in 75 of the 79 games he played.
Runner-Up: Rudy Gobert - Scored in the Top 7 in 53 of the 56 games he played.
Honorable Mention: Ingles (77 of 82), Crowder (23 of 27), Favors (71 of 77), and Exum (12 of 14).

Rudy and Donovan are basically tied with the tiebreaker going to Mitchell because it is more reliable to be available for more games and mathematically he had a higher percentage.

MVP (Total Points)
MVP:
Donovan Mitchell - 608 Points.
Runner-Up: Ricky Rubio - 490 Points.
Honorable Mention: Joe Ingles - 449 Points.

MVP (Average Points Per Game Played)
MVP:
Donovan Mitchell - 7.70 Points Per Game.
Runner-Up: Rudy Gobert - 7.32 Points Per Game.
Honorable Mention: Ricky Rubio - 6.36 Points Per Game.

Mentionable:

Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert played 53 games together in the regular season. In those 53 games: Format: Points (1-2-3-4-5-6-7-0)

Rudy Gobert: 396 Points (19-7-13-5-3-3-1-2)
Donovan Mitchell: 389 Points (16-14-9-2-5-2-2-3)

Only 6 times did RG and DM finish 1-2 respectively.
Only 2 times did DM and RG finish 1-2 respectively.
So, 45 of the 53 games were clearly one or the other or neither.

Of the 53 games, 14 times DM was clearly the MVP and Gobert was Third or later. 13 times where Gobert was clearly the MVP and Mitchell Third or later. Mitchell was second 8 times when Gobert was NOT first. Gobert was second 5 times when Mitchell was NOT first.

Rudy Gobert was more dominant (First Place Votes). Donovan Mitchell was more consistent (More Top 2 games, though one more 0 point game than Gobert). Both were in the Top Three 39 times when they played together.
 

MHSL82

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In the Playoffs, I am raising the number of points and number of spots (9).

First Round:

MVP1: 15 points
MVP2: 14 points
HM3: 12 points
HM4: 10 points
HM5: 9 points
HM6: 7 points
HM7: 5 points
HM8: 3 Points
HM9: 1 Point

Second Round:

MVP1: 20 points
MVP2: 18 points
HM3: 15 points
HM4: 12 points
HM5: 10 points
HM6: 8 points
HM7: 6 points
HM8: 3 Points
HM9: 1 Point

Third Round:

Not really going there right now... however, this is what I'm thinking:

MVP1: 25 points
MVP2: 22 points
HM3: 18 points
HM4: 14 points
HM5: 11 points
HM6: 9 points
HM7: 7 points
HM8: 3 Points
HM9: 1 Point

Finals:

MVP1: 30 points
MVP2: 26 points
HM3: 21 points
HM4: 16 points
HM5: 12 points
HM6: 10 points
HM7: 8 points
HM8: 3 Points
HM9: 1 Point
 

nuraman00

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Thanks.
 

nuraman00

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Take a look at the post above summarizing the regular season. Just added it.

I wanted to see which game Joe Johnson had that 1st place vote. I see it was Jan 4th against the Pelicans.

Cool that it was against a playoffs team.

How is the average calculated? Is it on all games, or only games in which they were a top 7? Because it says Rodney Hood had a 5+ rating, which would put him between the 4th and 5th best player.
 

MHSL82

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I wanted to see which game Joe Johnson had that 1st place vote. I see it was Jan 4th against the Pelicans.

Cool that it was against a playoffs team.

How is the average calculated? Is it on all games, or only games in which they were a top 7? Because it says Rodney Hood had a 5+ rating, which would put him between the 4th and 5th best player.

Rodney Hood did not play every game and when he did, he was typically ranked somewhere between six and two. For a good portion of the season, he was our leading scorer. So he was more consistent in ranking but not in shooting. The average was taken from total points divided by games played for the Jazz. Outside of the top seven got zero points but was included in a game played if they play for at least enough to show up on the box score. (Even all zeros.)
 
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