politics thread

[Sharkinva]

Nah...your bias on this subject clouds the conversation. According to you, any law that affects a minority is bad.

Any law designed to foster and support white supremacy is bad.. unless of course you support white supremacy that is.

 

[gkekoa]

Any law designed to foster and support white supremacy is bad.. unless of course you support white supremacy that is.

What law was created to foster white supremacy? It was a law designed to support American supremacy. We are a sovereign nation. Unless you support open borders, you should want people to follow the legal way to enter...regardless of race.

This statement is racist...immigration is good, unless we are immigrating white people. You want more non-white people to immigrate...that is racist. You are one who sees color in all decisions that don’t promote less whites.

 

[reptec101]

OK first, there was change. And i was actually positive change as 20% of the population who could not get even shitty health care were added to the roles of coverage. Now I know, Republicans will say Obamacare killed health care. BUt the reality is, GOP started trying to kill it before it was even on the books.

In your mind republicans are the enemy in all things. Reality is that republicans would at least work with Democrats under Obama. Democrats have no interest working along side republicans even if a bill would benefit americans. That's sad imo

Secondly.. IM not calling for open borders. I am saying the wall is stupid and its just a piece of propaganda to make the scared folks feel safe. Because in order for it to really work, its going to require things like being willing to do what Israel does... kill people trying to cross "illegally". You might be ok with that, but most people wont be.

If two Mexicans with tats all over suddenly show up at your house, ring the bell, and you look out and see them standing on your doorstep. If you don't throw your door wide open and say welcome without even asking who they are than you my friend are a racist. If two Mexicans show up at your house in suits holding a bible and you do the same your still the same racist. In theory you're stupid for opening your door without credentials presented to you. It's the same for people walking in our country. You need to know who they are before opening the door. It's not racist to want to know who you are... and this goes for any color. I'm never for killing anybody, but understand the law and... well.. live.

Novel concept. Stop making it a crime to come here, most people will actually do it LEGALLY if given the chance.

It's not a crime to come here. people do it all the time, all races. Legally with proper documentation. Not understanding your thoughts there.

Lastly I dont think any of you guys are actual racists, not the marching with Nazi flags type any way. But I know this country was built on racism, and that some of those in charge push the narrative that immigrants, blacks and yes Jews/Muslims are the real reason for any time society in America has troubles. Its the same playbook, they just change the emeny jersey from time to time.

I won't disagree with but I won't say it was built on racism. Not all whites are racist. Even in the deep south during the civil rights movement. A large percentage didn't like how blacks,,, I mean African americans were being treated. I look back on history and am embarrassed and ashamed of how some whites... I mean white americans acted. However, I do agree it was built on white supremacy. However, we were moving forward until in my opinion it was Obama who caused this division by standing firmly with the African americans denouncing anyone white before facts came out to support the other. He had the opportunity to make a statement of unity, and yet he let the cities burn instead and never once denounced that all police are not the enemy. Regarding Trump, yes he's not a very nice person but the democrats ran, and ran hard and spun everything into a racist frenzy that he has said or done. I personally don't believe he's anymore racist than you or me or anybody on this forum. And lastly ALL races are the reason for the ills we face in society. Not sure ive heard anyone say only whites are the good guys. It's really just sad that blacks and whites are so far devided on all issues that face our country. And I know the medias spin on each side is the real reason for that. Before cable TV we all got along seems a lot better. Oh well. Tis what it tis these days.

 

[Stymietee]

Well, dipping my toe back into these murky discussions, let me add a note of caution when talking about building a wall. First to build it with intentions of keeping anyone out smacks of delusion . If you build a wall on parts of the southern border, (BTW: there's already one there) determined people will merely find another way to enter into the country. Escaping almost sure death, by traveling through a couple of countries won't stop anyone from traveling to either coast or Canada by whatever means to reach their destination. Unless we are prepared to build a wall completely around the U.S. replacing the current southern wall with a new one is a waste of money.

 

[j_y19]

Well, dipping my toe back into these murky discussions, let me add a note of caution when talking about building a wall. First to build it with intentions of keeping anyone out smacks of delusion . If you build a wall on parts of the southern border, (BTW: there's already one there) determined people will merely find another way to enter into the country. Escaping almost sure death, by traveling through a couple of countries won't stop anyone from traveling to either coast or Canada by whatever means to reach their destination. Unless we are prepared to build a wall completely around the U.S. replacing the current southern wall with a new one is a waste of money.

Don't disagree about the value of the investment. You have to wonder if there isn't a better way given current technology.

Oh, but we aren't paying for it anyway, right? Viva Mexico!

 

[Stymietee]

Not wanting to leave you good folks with that bit about the southern wall, I do have a real effective solution that will last for generations. If you ask the question, or already know why these people who have packed everything they own because they felt that they were no longer safe in their homes are doing so, then you must admit that while they have created an issue, they aren't the problem. The real threat is their homelands where conditions are such that there's no real other alternative beyond fleeing.

Real leadership, identifies the problem and sets out to correct them. Now I suggest diplomacy and economic pressures to begin with in dealing with dictatorships and the direct threats that they pose in our hemisphere. If that fails then we use whatever measures against this direct threat as is necessary. We have fought wars in lands all over the globe, yet we won't do what's necessary here at home? How does that make any sense at all? Our policy in the Northern Hemisphere must be zero tolerance from any other land that forces its people to flee into our country.

 

[Stymietee]

Don't disagree about the value of the investment. You have to wonder if there isn't a better way given current technology.

Oh, but we aren't paying for it anyway, right? Viva Mexico!

The wall is a ruse, there already is a wall on the southern border where there's no privately owned land or waterways. BTW: I've answered this question in my last post. I would be interested in your thoughts on my entry.

 

[Sharkinva]

I won't disagree with but I won't say it was built on racism. Not all whites are racist. Even in the deep south during the civil rights movement. A large percentage didn't like how blacks,,, I mean African americans were being treated. I look back on history and am embarrassed and ashamed of how some whites... I mean white americans acted. However, I do agree it was built on white supremacy. However, we were moving forward until in my opinion it was Obama who caused this division by standing firmly with the African americans denouncing anyone white before facts came out to support the other. He had the opportunity to make a statement of unity, and yet he let the cities burn instead and never once denounced that all police are not the enemy. Regarding Trump, yes he's not a very nice person but the democrats ran, and ran hard and spun everything into a racist frenzy that he has said or done. I personally don't believe he's anymore racist than you or me or anybody on this forum. And lastly ALL races are the reason for the ills we face in society. Not sure ive heard anyone say only whites are the good guys. It's really just sad that blacks and whites are so far devided on all issues that face our country. And I know the medias spin on each side is the real reason for that. Before cable TV we all got along seems a lot better. Oh well. Tis what it tis these days.

Here is the thing. I dont think we got along better before the advent of cable news. Reality is, screwed up stuff would happen, but if you were in Iowa, you were not getting daily updates on the Zombie Horde moving towards the Texas border. If a black person killed a white person in Kansas, it wasnt global news by 11:00 PM that same night. Technology didnt make us worse, it just made it easier for us to see the fucked up stuff that was happening outside our own little corner of the world.

 

[Sharkinva]

Not wanting to leave you good folks with that bit about the southern wall, I do have a real effective solution that will last for generations. If you ask the question, or already know why these people who have packed everything they own because they felt that they were no longer safe in their homes are doing so, then you must admit that while they have created an issue, they aren't the problem. The real threat is their homelands where conditions are such that there's no real other alternative beyond fleeing.

Real leadership, identifies the problem and sets out to correct them. Now I suggest diplomacy and economic pressures to begin with in dealing with dictatorships and the direct threats that they pose in our hemisphere. If that fails then we use whatever measures against this direct threat as is necessary. We have fought wars in lands all over the globe, yet we won't do what's necessary here at home? How does that make any sense at all? Our policy in the Northern Hemisphere must be zero tolerance from any other land that forces its people to flee into our country.

I will add to that. If and when these countries actually do begin to improve, our automatic response can not be the one where we decide its ok as long as this country does not some how pose a physical or monetary threat to American dominance. China was fine as long as they were a 3rd world country. Now that they are a major financial player, they are on the bad guy list?? At one point in our history, we apparently had a problem with too many people from China sneaking into America. As China improved, those numbers dropped.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Stymietee]

I will add to that. If and when these countries actually do begin to improve, our automatic response can not be the one where we decide its ok as long as this country does not some how pose a physical or monetary threat to American dominance. China was fine as long as they were a 3rd world country. Now that they are a major financial player, they are on the bad guy list?? At one point in our history, we apparently had a problem with too many people from China sneaking into America. As China improved, those numbers dropped.

Just some food for thought.

Let's also remember that a lot of the folks who are standing against people who have come or are coming here, are doing so against folks who are seeking the same freedoms and opportunities that supposedly are offered here. We've fought wars to maintain that status quo, promoted the idea of a global economy, stood up to those who have shown a bend towards threatening that world economy and sadly, are reluctant to have others join the club because there's more profit in what Eisenhower warned us against. (MIC)

 

[Sharkinva]

Let's also remember that a lot of the folks who are standing against people who have come or are coming here, are doing so against folks who are seeking the same freedoms and opportunities that supposedly are offered here. We've fought wars to maintain that status quo, promoted the idea of a global economy, stood up to those who have shown a bend towards threatening that world economy and sadly, are reluctant to have others join the club because there's more profit in what Eisenhower warned us against. (MIC)

I dont think Trump is against a global economy. He is against a global economy where America is not the head of the table.

 

[Stymietee]

I dont think Trump is against a global economy. He is against a global economy where America is not the head of the table.

You may be right about that however, I believe that he's motivated by family fortune far ahead of country. Authoritarians tend to do that.

 

[Sharkinva]

You may be right about that however, I believe that he's motivated by family fortune far ahead of country. Authoritarians tend to do that.

true.. but what better way to ensure his family legacy than to change the balance of world power and be known as the man who really put America first.. right.

 

[j_y19]

Let's also remember that a lot of the folks who are standing against people who have come or are coming here, are doing so against folks who are seeking the same freedoms and opportunities that supposedly are offered here. We've fought wars to maintain that status quo, promoted the idea of a global economy, stood up to those who have shown a bend towards threatening that world economy and sadly, are reluctant to have others join the club because there's more profit in what Eisenhower warned us against. (MIC)

So I have no issue with anything you have posted here. With one exception. It is my belief that the vast majority of those looking for border control aren't doing it to stop those that are fleeing horrendous situations at home. It's not because of what race they are. It is more about understanding who is coming in and what their intentions are.

Lets be real. Not all seeking to come to this country are looking for safety and legal opportunity. There are some that we do not want in this country. They are bad characters that mean no good, and potentially are intent on harm of your's and my families. This is why you have an immigration policy. 9/11 wasn't that long ago that we should forget that there are factions out here that still want to kill us just because we aren't like them.

By constantly labeling those that feel the need for border control as racists immediately takes the conversation away from coming up with a bilateral agreement and into one of defense of character. It is a no win situation.

 

[Sharkinva]

So I have no issue with anything you have posted here. With one exception. It is my belief that the vast majority of those looking for border control aren't doing it to stop those that are fleeing horrendous situations at home. It's not because of what race they are. It is more about understanding who is coming in and what their intentions are.

Lets be real. Not all seeking to come to this country are looking for safety and legal opportunity. There are some that we do not want in this country. They are bad characters that mean no good, and potentially are intent on harm of your's and my families. This is why you have an immigration policy. 9/11 wasn't that long ago that we should forget that there are factions out here that still want to kill us just because we aren't like them.

By constantly labeling those that feel the need for border control as racists immediately takes the conversation away from coming up with a bilateral agreement and into one of defense of character. It is a no win situation.

I cant disagree with any of this. BUt I will point out that double standards abound in how we view people in this country, and they do fall along racial lines for what its worth.

Some seem t totally accept that because SOME of these people coming from the south may have nefarious intentions, it totally justifies being as hard line as possible on immigration because in this instance.. better to be over cautious than regret it later.

Flip side, if its even hinted that most of the hate crimes in this country are committed by right wingers who are primarily white... its immediately brushed off with.. well its just a small group that does not represent the whole. The same goes when anyone even HINTS at gun control or registration. Its immediately met with.. well just because SOME people who bought guns legally went apeshit and killed groups of people, does not mean we need less guns. And in fact it just means everyone needs to be armed at all times.

 

[Stymietee]

So I have no issue with anything you have posted here. With one exception. It is my belief that the vast majority of those looking for border control aren't doing it to stop those that are fleeing horrendous situations at home. It's not because of what race they are. It is more about understanding who is coming in and what their intentions are.

Lets be real. Not all seeking to come to this country are looking for safety and legal opportunity. There are some that we do not want in this country. They are bad characters that mean no good, and potentially are intent on harm of your's and my families. This is why you have an immigration policy. 9/11 wasn't that long ago that we should forget that there are factions out here that still want to kill us just because we aren't like them.

By constantly labeling those that feel the need for border control as racists immediately takes the conversation away from coming up with a bilateral agreement and into one of defense of character. It is a no win situation.

So I have no issue with anything you have posted here. With one exception. It is my belief that the vast majority of those looking for border control aren't doing it to stop those that are fleeing horrendous situations at home. It's not because of what race they are. It is more about understanding who is coming in and what their intentions are.

How is it possible to know what their intentions are? Was there some truth telling poll/ examination done in order to determine that? Factually, there's no way to tell if there are people from anywhere coming here to do or not do harm. I understand fear, and to me, the entire border issue is based on two types: 1. one based in selfishness and 2. One that prevents a people from doing something that addresses the issue permanently.

Lets be real. Not all seeking to come to this country are looking for safety and legal opportunity. There are some that we do not want in this country. They are bad characters that mean no good, and potentially are intent on harm of your's and my families. This is why you have an immigration policy. 9/11 wasn't that long ago that we should forget that there are factions out here that still want to kill us just because we aren't like them.

Whatever happened to the country that saw a wrong and sought to correct it? Why are we so afraid of ourselves and forcing those that we've elected to represent us to do that right thing? Doesn't the problem go away or become reduced to those wanting to do harm if we stood against the forces that are forcing good intended folks to flee? Tell you what, I'll agree that we build the wall, send the military and all of that nonsense in exchange for all of the damned cowards being kicked out of this country along with those who stoke fear instead of solutions. Deal?

By constantly labeling those that feel the need for border control as racists immediately takes the conversation away from coming up with a bilateral agreement and into one of defense of character. It is a no win situation.

I don't believe that you understand, those that are for a border wall are exactly the cowards that I speak of. There are any number of reasons why people are afraid, racism roughly translated is fear. This country, has survived 242 years of different people entering legally and illegally, what's the difference now that compels so many to want to build an unnecessary wall? F.E.A.R

 

[j_y19]

I cant disagree with any of this. BUt I will point out that double standards abound in how we view people in this country, and they do fall along racial lines for what its worth.

Some seem t totally accept that because SOME of these people coming from the south may have nefarious intentions, it totally justifies being as hard line as possible on immigration because in this instance.. better to be over cautious than regret it later.

Flip side, if its even hinted that most of the hate crimes in this country are committed by right wingers who are primarily white... its immediately brushed off with.. well its just a small group that does not represent the whole. The same goes when anyone even HINTS at gun control or registration. Its immediately met with.. well just because SOME people who bought guns legally went apeshit and killed groups of people, does not mean we need less guns. And in fact it just means everyone needs to be armed at all times.

Shark, that's because that is what the media is telling you. Because a conservative who understands that intelligent gun control is needed doesn't make for good news. Yet they are out there and there are alot. But when they hear that semiautomatic rifles are classified as WMDs because they LOOK like an full auto AR-15, they are concerned that the other side doesn't even understand what the fuck they are talking about. So they dig in. get it?

Its the rhetoric that we first have to tone down. Then we need to ask questions of one another and not assume their intentions for the policies they support. I'd bet you would find that most gun owners recognize that some gun control is needed. Not every gun owner is a member of some White (or Black) supremacy group. But they aren't coming to the table if they think the other side's intentions are to disarm them.

 

[j_y19]

So I have no issue with anything you have posted here. With one exception. It is my belief that the vast majority of those looking for border control aren't doing it to stop those that are fleeing horrendous situations at home. It's not because of what race they are. It is more about understanding who is coming in and what their intentions are.

How is it possible to know what their intentions are? Was there some truth telling poll/ examination done in order to determine that? Factually, there's no way to tell if there are people from anywhere coming here to do or not do harm. I understand fear, and to me, the entire border issue is based on two types: 1. one based in selfishness and 2. One that prevents a people from doing something that addresses the issue permanently.

Lets be real. Not all seeking to come to this country are looking for safety and legal opportunity. There are some that we do not want in this country. They are bad characters that mean no good, and potentially are intent on harm of your's and my families. This is why you have an immigration policy. 9/11 wasn't that long ago that we should forget that there are factions out here that still want to kill us just because we aren't like them.

Whatever happened to the country that saw a wrong and sought to correct it? Why are we so afraid of ourselves and forcing those that we've elected to represent us to do that right thing? Doesn't the problem go away or become reduced to those wanting to do harm if we stood against the forces that are forcing good intended folks to flee? Tell you what, I'll agree that we build the wall, send the military and all of that nonsense in exchange for all of the damned cowards being kicked out of this country along with those who stoke fear instead of solutions. Deal?

By constantly labeling those that feel the need for border control as racists immediately takes the conversation away from coming up with a bilateral agreement and into one of defense of character. It is a no win situation.

I don't believe that you understand, those that are for a border wall are exactly the cowards that I speak of. There are any number of reasons why people are afraid, racism roughly translated is fear. This country, has survived 242 years of different people entering legally and illegally, what's the difference now that compels so many to want to build an unnecessary wall? F.E.A.R

My point exactly.

 

[Sharkinva]

Shark, that's because that is what the media is telling you. Because a conservative who understands that intelligent gun control is needed doesn't make for good news. Yet they are out there and there are alot. But when they hear that semiautomatic rifles are classified as WMDs because they LOOK like an full auto AR-15, they are concerned that the other side doesn't even understand what the fuck they are talking about. So they dig in. get it?

Its the rhetoric that we first have to tone down. Then we need to ask questions of one another and not assume their intentions for the policies they support. I'd bet you would find that most gun owners recognize that some gun control is needed. Not every gun owner is a member of some White (or Black) supremacy group. But they aren't coming to the table if they think the other side's intentions are to disarm them.

IM not talking about the Media. IM talking about here in our own dysfunctional little patch of the Internet. I have had a couple of posters argue me down that crimes and mistakes of the one when it comes to guns, or other instances of being generally fucked up should not and do not represent the greater body.

Secondly, there is no such thing as a legal full auto AR-15. Having served in the Military, I know what semi auto weapons of this design were made for, and it wasnt hunting deer... unless you like your meat pre-shredded. The only logical reason for a civilian to have these types of weapons is either fear, or bad intentions. NOw I will admit, it might be fun to shoot these things. But when a guy owns multiple high capacity high rate of fire guns, it gets beyond just a fun hobby more often than not.

 

[Sharkinva]

I'd bet you would find that most gun owners recognize that some gun control is needed. Not every gun owner is a member of some White (or Black) supremacy group. But they aren't coming to the table if they think the other side's intentions are to disarm them.

ON this i will specifically point out.

Why is it ok that our Military and Police have to register and keep very strict tract of ALL weapons owned. The only time I had free and ready access to my service rifle was when I was in a situation where i could need it at any given time. And God help you if you are an armory officer and an M-16 or M-4 goes missing. I dont want to take all guns, but reality is there needs to be some very strict gun control in this country. And yes we do need to know WHO is stockpiling these damn things. Vegas should have taught us this by now.